rougher edges than in the original...

[Weef]

I suprised but I can't tell why my compressed version of it always has rougher edges (right side).

The left represents my uncompressed RGB source and the right my encoded file - any smart simple idea what it could be?

[poisondeathray]

It looks like you encoded interlaced, and some crappy deinterlacer was used

Describe what you did (encoder, codec, settings, file format ) , and how you are playing this back (software, decoder )

[Weef]

These are my settings and I - as far as I know, use only the playback of the software.

[poisondeathray]

are you encoding this through vdub , and x264 vfw ? or premiere pro (I see PP in your taskbar)

what does mediainfo say about the exported file , and the input file (view=>text and copy & paste the info back here) ?

what is the input file? is in an export from premiere ?

have you tried other media players or decoders (is it a playback problem)

[Weef]

I normally cut in Premiere Pro and export them uncompressed and then do the Compression with VDub and x264 vfw.

Okay so that's the final file.

General
Complete name : E:\Sequenz 03_oB.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 41.7 MiB
Duration : 4mn 11s
Overall bit rate : 1 390 Kbps
Writing library : VirtualDub build 30080/release
Video
ID : 0
Format : x264
Codec ID : x264
Duration : 4mn 11s
Bit rate : 1 188 Kbps
Width : 688 pixels
Height : 496 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.387
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.139
Stream size : 35.7 MiB (85%)
Audio
ID : 1
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 3
Mode : Joint stereo
Mode extension : MS Stereo
Codec ID : 55
Codec ID/Hint : MP3
Duration : 4mn 11s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Stream size : 5.75 MiB (14%)
Alignment : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration : 40 ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration : 500 ms



Uncompressed Output from Premiere


Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 68.8 GiB
Duration : 48mn 7s
Overall bit rate : 205 Mbps
Writing library : VirtualDub build 30080/release
Video
ID : 0
Format : RGB
Codec ID : 0x00000000
Codec ID/Info : Basic Windows bitmap format. 1, 4 and 8 bpp versions are palettised. 16, 24 and 32bpp contain raw RGB samples
Duration : 48mn 7s
Bit rate : 205 Mbps
Width : 688 pixels
Height : 496 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.387
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 24.000
Stream size : 68.8 GiB (100%)


Original

Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 29mn 44s
Overall bit rate : 4 815 Kbps
Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=13
Duration : 29mn 44s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 3 951 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 7 800 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.381
Stream size : 840 MiB (82%)
Audio #1
ID : 128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Duration : 29mn 43s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 81.7 MiB (8%)
Audio #2
ID : 129 (0x81)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Duration : 29mn 43s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 81.7 MiB (8%)
Text #1
ID : 32 (0x20)
Format : RLE
Format/Info : Run-length encoding
Video delay : 8s 360ms
Text #2
ID : 33 (0x21)
Format : RLE
Format/Info : Run-length encoding
Video delay : 8s 360ms

[poisondeathray]

Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First

The original was interlaced, or at least was encoded as interlaced .

How did you handle it in premiere ? Did you deinterlace in premiere ? What sequence settings and export settings did you use ?

Did you verify the export from premiere ? It probably already has the aliasing (jaggies) from the poor quality deinterlacer . Or is the left side of the screenshot the RGB export from premiere ?

How are you taking screenshots (what software)

[Weef]

Usually I do it in the export options in Premiere to switch to progressive.

Could it be the choice between video codec V210 and UYVY?

[poisondeathray]

no, those are both uncompressed . The problem is likely premiere's deinterlacer

Was that left sided screenshot the export from premiere ?

[Weef]

Yup...

[poisondeathray]

why does the uncompressed output from premiere say "Writing library : VirtualDub build 30080/release" ? did you mix up the mediainfo ? or did you just cut a sample in vdub ?

what other filters or processing did you using in vdub ?

can you see the aliasing in vdub in the preview input or output pane ?

what happens if you use another codec (e.g. use xvid in vdub) ?

again, how are you taking screenshots and playing this back ? what decoder ?

[Weef]

Wait lemme rethink - you are right...!!
I exported from Vdub (uncompressed) and used that file in Premiere Pro to make my cuts and then made an uncompressed output and used that in Vdub again to encode!!

[poisondeathray]

OK start over again. At what stage does the problem occur ?

[Weef]

The "screenshots" of files were done with Cyberlink Power DVD the normal screenshots of the settings with windows.

And usually I resize them to other dimensions (1st export uncompressed from Vdub) to the dimensions they originally are so I don't have to care about a programm like VLC that then somehow stretches them beyond intended size...

Usually I just use this encoder.

And yes I can see the difference (cutted export from Premiere in Vdub, 3th step) in the output panel but I first realize it in the moving picture... after export

So the problem occurs when I do the final encoding

[poisondeathray]

The "screenshots" of files were done with Cyberlink Power DVD the normal screenshots of the settings with windows.

cyberlink might be deinterlacing, so it's not reliable to show you what you have

And usually I resize them to other dimensions (1st export uncompressed from Vdub) to the dimensions they originally are so I don't have to care about a programm like VLC that then somehow stretches them beyond intended size...

If the original source was interlaced, you cannot resize interlaced material with a straight resize, the fields will get messed up

Usually I just use this encoder.

I was just trying to rule out a problem with that version of x264 , but it's unlikely the problem

And yes I can see the difference (cutted export from Premiere in Vdub, 3th step) in the output panel but I first realize it in the moving picture... after export

Are you saying you can see both output and input panel have the "jaggies" when you import the file that was exported from premiere ? or just the output panel? So the problem was premiere, correct ?

[Weef]

No, it's only in the output panel.

So it's all because it interlaced material? >.< And I really thought....nevermind
So is the deinterlacer of Vdub okay as a choice?

PS once again, no it's not visible in the cutted file (uncompressed export) of Premiere

[poisondeathray]

That doesn't make any sense. What filters are you using in vdub ? If you aren't using any, the input & output panel should look the same .

[Weef]

Using no filters perhaps it's just a difference in regions of the LCD but I have the feeling the output looks a lil more blocky and the black borders are harder.
I really only use a resizing filter in the first step but as u you said missed the deinterlacing...no other filters

But you can see the difference in the first picture as well?

[poisondeathray]

But you can see the difference in the first picture as well?

yes, and from what you've told me it doesn't make any sense

can you upload a small sample of the premiere export ?

if you use vdub in direct stream copy mode, you can mark in/out a section and cut it (video=>direct stream copy)

[Weef]

Okay, I've forgotten to give u the info about the 3rd step the export of Premiere Pro.

I've only given u the readout of the final encoded file, the big extract file (uncompressed) of Vdub, which I accidentaly called the Premiere Pro output and the original.


But NOW...sorry here's the readout of 3rd step - the uncompressed cutted export of Premiere...

Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 4.04 GiB
Duration : 4mn 11s
Overall bit rate : 138 Mbps
Video
ID : 0
Format : YUV
Codec ID : UYVY
Codec ID/Info : Uncompressed 16bpp. YUV 4:2:2 (Y sample at every pixel, U and V sampled at every second pixel horizontally on each line). A macropixel contains 2 pixels in 1 u_int32.
Duration : 4mn 11s
Bit rate : 136 Mbps
Width : 688 pixels
Height : 496 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.387
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 16.000
Stream size : 4.00 GiB (99%)
Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 4mn 11s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 42.3 MiB (1%)
Interleave, duration : 995 ms (24.87 video frames)

[poisondeathray]

You should be using uncompressed avi , under "microsoft avi" ; you don't need the higher bit depth, the original source is 8bpc, and the final export format is 8bpc... and you're not color correcting or anything in vdub (and it works in 8bit space anyways) , so you're just wasting space.... But it shouldn't matter

Anyways, if what you've said is true - if it looks normal in the input window in vdub, but not in the output window, it has to be something you've done in vdub (even before encoding) , does that make sense ?

[Weef]

Well most of the time I'm using version 1.8.7 - are there any issues know to you involving this?

[Weef]

Weird when I'm using version 1.9.8 the differences are down by the half (visually) - I find it then merges better with the surrounding but still not comparable to the original.

Would it help to use another encoder and try a matrix focused encoding??

[poisondeathray]

It should make no difference what version you use for vdub, it's not doing the encoding . vfw version of x264 is doing the encoding

Your encoding settings are a bit weird, low buffer, that will affect the quality of the encoding but not the aliasing in the 1st post. That is almost definitely bad deinterlacing.

If what you say is true, it's vdub that is causing the problem ( sorry , I don't believe you, or you have made mistakes in what you have reported, or left out details) .

If what you say is true, don't use vdub, and everything should be fine

Nothing makes sense about your post .

[Weef]

Okay then I will change the vfw x264 version - my version is from Dec 2008 and there's one from Aug 2009

[poisondeathray]

Okay then I will change the vfw x264 version - my version is from Dec 2008 and there's one from Aug 2009

that shouldn't matter, because the decoded image already has the aliasing after something in vdub (but you said you used no filters), and is passing it on to the encoder (you said the output pane shows the artifacts, right?) . But the decoder itself is ok, because you say the input pane is fine.... it doesn't make any sense

why don't you export from adobe media encoder?

[jagabo]

In VirtualDub go to Options -> Preferences. Select Display in the right pane. Disable "Use DirectX for Display Panes" then press the Save button. Exit and Restart VirtualDub. Do the input and output panes look the same now?

[Weef]

I never said artifacts!

I now and then had problems and it crashed...

[Weef]

Was enlabeled already in both versions of Vdub

[jagabo]

Was enlabeled already in both versions of Vdub

Are you replying to me? I said DISABLE the setting.

[poisondeathray]

I never said artifacts!

I have no idea what you are saying.

I said :

Are you saying you can see both output and input panel have the "jaggies" when you import the file that was exported from premiere ? or just the output panel? So the problem was premiere, correct ?

You replied:

No, it's only in the output panel.

So please clarify