Capturing in MPEG Gives Wavy Video

[MasterOfPuppets]

I have been trying to capture some video for a while now to no avail. I'm using an external capture card and "WinAVI Video Capture" to save it as an MPEG. While the quality is great, at certain points during the capture, certain sections of the frame look wavy. For example, here's a direct capture.

http://www.mediafire.com/?j2diqzozzx3

And here's what I'm talking about. The first part of the video is full frames and the second half is half frames, you can see something's wrong when you see the half frames.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-MNzZOa6s

You can also see the problem more clearly by de-interlacing the MediaFire file with liner in VLC, or view it in split fields in Virtual Dub at about frame 1979 it will display the pattern, that's probably the best way to do it.

The tapes are factory made NTSC-J. I have tried another VCR and it does the same thing. Now, you're going to think I'm an idiot when I say this, but it seems to record correctly when I select to record it as a DVD. The only problem I have is that the quality is no where near capturing it as a MPEG.

I've tried to burn it to DVD and have set the video as interlaced TTF, BBF and progressive, and none of them work, they all still show it as wavy on a TV. Hope someone here can help!

Oh, also, I've tried to capture in Virtual Dub but haven't really looked into the quality of the video because the audio gets recorded really slowly and playbacks slowly. I assume it's the codec, so would saving the raw stream help? If so, how much room would 45 minutes of raw stereo audio take up? Virtual Dub will probably be the way to go if I can get the audio to work...

[DB83]

These tapes were copied for you in Japan ?

Someone here will probably give a more detailed answer but it seems that the NTSC standard for Japan is not identical to the US variant. You woulsd therefore need a multi-standard VCR to play them back correctly and then capture in NTSC-J and not NTSC.

[jagabo]

Japan uses NTSC standards except the black level is a little different. You should have normal interlaced video that is fully compatible with DVD if you handle it properly. Do not resize the frame in the vertical dimension. Do not crop the head switching noise at the bottom of the frame, mask it instead (cover it with a black bar) if you must. You should be capturing as 720x480 and burning that as-is to DVD.

Downloading your file now...

[MasterOfPuppets]

The tapes are not copies but real copies from a factory. My capture card fortunately has an NTSC-J setting so I can capture it correctly.

As for what you said Jagabo, I'm doing that exactly. I'm not even masking the noise, just leaving it.

[DB83]

The tapes are not copies but real copies from a factory. My capture card fortunately has an NTSC-J setting so I can capture it correctly.

As for what you said Jagabo, I'm doing that exactly. I'm not even masking the noise, just leaving it.

But have you tried just plain ol' NTSC ?

I will bow to Jagabo's knowledge on NTSC standards but it is not unknown for factory produced tapes to have inherited problems in the copying process.

[hech54]

I don't even understand your problem. Is the half-frame effect the problem?
...cause I see nothing wrong with the full frame video at the beginning of the youtube vid.

[DB83]

You could also assist by telling us what external hardware you are using for the capture.

And if this kit has software controlling it then there should be some way to adjust the quality settings for a 'DVD' capture.

BTW (someone correct me on this) Analogue mpeg2 capture is TFF interlaced. DV capture is BFF interlaced.

Your video appears to be interlaced. My software(ulead) says it is NTSC-DVD frame-based. If you set the wrong field-order or even converted it with the wrong field-order then there could be problems.

Also the audio is not to the NTSC DVD standard. You have mp2 audio.

[jagabo]

I have the video now. Let me preface this by saying I have VHS decks bought in the USA and have many VHS and Beta tapes from Japan but I have never seen anything like this problem.

There is definitely something odd going on. The ripples are caused by a inappropriate resizing of an interlaced video. If this is really straight from your capture card (why is it encoded progressive?), and it was capture correctly, then that is what's on the tape (you should see it when you watch the tape on TV) and there is nothing you can do about it.

[jagabo]

BTW (someone correct me on this) Analogue mpeg2 capture is TFF interlaced.

TFF is more common but it can be either.

[MasterOfPuppets]

@DB83 - Yes I have tried regular NTSC and the same thing happens, the blacks also get crushed.
The card I'm using is a "USB 2860 Device" which has aparentally been re-branded too many times to count. Mine is a "Tevion." Here's a link about them.

http://tellmewhy.xooit.eu/t366-ZOLID-DVD-Maker-TEVION-DVD-Maker.htm

@hech54 - Yes, the half field is the issue. When played on a TV it looks like that, not the full frame. (The waves, not the size of the image.)

@ jagaboo - I've watched the tape all the way through on my TV and this never happened. It's interesting though that it has been encoded progressively. I did not tell it to, but on the other hand, I didn't tell how to encode it either as "WinAVI Video Capture" doesn't have a spot to say how to encode it (TTF, Progressively, etc.) Might it be the program?

Also, I just remembered. I did convert two other tapes with the same setup and it did the same thing. I kept those though because it's barely noticeable as most of the tape is a static-ish image and I could only see it when there was a flash of light.

[DB83]

So are you saying that when you view the captured video on a tv you only see half a picture ?

Have you done any other tapes (other than the three you now mention) that were captured fine and played back fine ? And were these conventional NTSC tapes ?

Do you, by any chance, own a dvd recorder and have attempted to do a straight copy/burn to that ?

And, finally, do the tapes play back straight to your tv without any issues ?

[jagabo]

Since you're not seeing anything wrong when watching the tape on TV your capture card or drivers must be at fault. What happens when you capture at the regular NTSC setting? The worst you should see there is black crush (NTSC-J uses a darker black level but that's often not a problem with VHS tapes because the black level is often too high anyway -- as can be seen in the sample you provided).

[MasterOfPuppets]

@DB83 - I kind of worded that poorly. What I meant was that the full frame part of the video looks correct but the half frame doesn't when it comes to interlacing. The image is full, but it's wavy like the half frames.

I captured three different tapes on a different computer with a different VCR with a different program. Yes, they were traditional USA NTSC tapes. I don't remember how I caputred them though as that was probably a couple years ago.

I had access to a DVD recorder and did transfer the tapes to them, and they turned out fine-ish. If you're wondering why I'm going though all this trouble is because the blacks are wrong (playing an NTSC-J tape on an NTSC player), some of the video was stretched to 16:9 for some reason, and some of the video is unripable because the DVDs are formatted for over 2 hours.

Yes, the tapes play fine on my TV.

@ jagabo - When I capture at the normal NTSC setting, it does the same thing but the blacks do get crushed. Actually, the sample I uploaded was recorded when I had the settings at normal NTSC.

Before I go out and buy a new card (probably Dazzle DVD Recorder (Best Buy SKU: 9714459)), how can I be certain it's the card? Also, would that card/program/drivers work on Vista 64 bit?

Thanks for the help so far!

[jagabo]

@ jagabo - When I capture at the normal NTSC setting, it does the same thing but the blacks do get crushed. Actually, the sample I uploaded was recorded when I had the settings at normal NTSC.

There is no black crush in that MPEG file. The black level is way too high. If you are seeing black crush with that sample there is something wrong with your computer setup. This is what your sample looks like:



And this is about what it should have looked like:



There's also something very suspicious about that file. There are 8 lines of black (very near Y=0) at the top and bottom of the frame. At the bottom the VHS head switching noise is above that black bar. I think this means your capture card, its driver, or the software you are using is mishandling the video -- downsizing it improperly and adding the black borders. Can you capture with VirtualDub?

Before I go out and buy a new card (probably Dazzle DVD Recorder (Best Buy SKU: 9714459)), how can I be certain it's the card?

Do you have some other video source you can record? A cable TV box? A DVD player? A camcorder?

Also, would that card/program/drivers work on Vista 64 bit?

I'm not really up on current capture devices.

[MasterOfPuppets]

Ah, then I was confused. I did record a video in which the blacks were crushed, it must have been a different one. I'll capture the same clip with VirtualDub and see what happens. What codecs/video size/etc. should I use?

I'll test it with a DVD player.

[themaster1]

And here's what I'm talking about. The first part of the video is full frames and the second half is half frames, you can see something's wrong when you see the half frames.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-MNzZOa6s

You can also see the problem more clearly by de-interlacing the MediaFire file with liner in VLC, or view it in split fields in Virtual Dub at about frame 1979 it will display the pattern, that's probably the best way to do it.

That's a software problem clearly probably related to the drivers or probably not who knows

In any case try this software The results should be much better.

[MasterOfPuppets]

The audio refuses to sync for me with that program on custom profiles, and on the preset ones, there are some audio distortions (crackling, skipping, repeating). I found that if I change the profile to 192kbps it works, but again that's a custom profile and those don't. I'll do some more playing around with it though, the video seems to be perfect!

[themaster1]

Best settings for this software (i use it since a while so i believe i know...) are
audio: mpeg1 layer 2 ("from source")
video: bitrate: 9000k (GOP/SUB GOP: 1 - Motion 7/7 ) , these are non dvd compliant but that's what it takes..
With that you're good for recording in real time , especially satellite/cable , for vhs you may wanna keep the interlacing .

For your Audio problem you should try to connect the audio jack on your sound card directly (i'm assuming you got one of these modern tv cards with the video/audio cables attached to a single cable...such as mine, although mine work ok as is)

This software is the best you'll find imo because it does deinterlace the video automatically (which is good for computer/modern tv these days) and it don't takes much cpu resources, is totally stable, and simple. I use it since like 5 years...The con's might argue it give you a non dvd compliant video but who cares...

[2Bdecided]

There is definitely something odd going on. The ripples are caused by a inappropriate resizing of an interlaced video.

They are, and it's happening in the PC somewhere (e.g. the capture drivers or encoder) - look at the small letterbox black lines top and bottom - they're perfectly clean - they're not coming from VHS (or even analogue). They've been created digitally by the unwanted resizing of the original image.

I can't believe even the lousiest drivers do this by default - something must be set wrong!

Cheers,
David.