VHS to DVD (Damn Macrovision)

[ctdvd]

Hi, I read some of the posts on here about devices that do this but it just does not seem cut-and-dry to me so I thought stating what I am after would be the easiest way: Obviously have some protected VHS and I am look for the best quality but cheapest device that would allow transfer to DVD. I thought about capture cards (they seem to be less expensive) but would like to get the best quality. Some recommendations would be great 1) is it best to attach a device from VHS to DVD recorder or 2) installing a VC card in my computer and going that route? The latter puts it right on my PC which is great but again, the quality and cost issue come into play.

Thanks!

[gshelley61]

My vote is for a device between your VCR and a DVD recorder. Simple, effective and fast with very good to excellent results.

There are several video "clarifiers", "stabilizers", and "enhancers" available at relatively low cost that will probably work fine for what you want to do.

I use a professional Sony MPU-F100 Frame Memory Unit (Digital Time Base Corrector). There are other pro and semi-pro TBC's that will work, too. However, it costs more to acquire a full frame TBC that is suitable for home video use.

[usually_quiet]

If you don't already have a good VCR, and either a good DVD recorder or a good capture card, and the VHS tapes are available on DVD, it's often cheaper (as well as easier) to buy the DVDs than to buy everything you need to record them on DVD yourself in the best quality.

This doesn't seem straighforward because to some degree it isn't. The simplest way to record copy protected VHS tapes is to obtain a good DVD recorder, a good VCR, and a good video stabilizer, although some tapes may need a TBC (more expensive) instead of a video stabilizer. Once a DVD is recorded, correcting noise or other picture-related problems may require a computer and some specialized software, but otherwise, once the DVD is finalized, you're good to go.

Capture cards and software produce great results if you know what you are doing, but getting everthing set up and working correctly is sometimes difficult and time-consuming. If you go that route, you still need a video stabilizer or TBC. A card that does MPEG-2 encoding via hardware, rather than software is probably what you want if the tapes are in good shape. There are capture cards that record in DV format as well, which is a good for editing, and restoration/noise removal, but the video will need to be converted to be DVD compliant.

Either way, if at some point the video ends up on your computer you will need additional software to author your files and burn to DVD. These can be very simple, and easy to use freeware programs, especially if the DVD does not need a menu.

[joomlales]

If you don't already have a good VCR, and either a good DVD recorder or a good capture card, and the VHS tapes are available on DVD, it's often cheaper (as well as easier) to buy the DVDs than to buy everything you need to record them on DVD yourself in the best quality.

This doesn't seem straighforward because to some degree it isn't. The simplest way to record copy protected VHS tapes is to obtain a good DVD recorder, a good VCR, and a good video stabilizer, although some tapes may need a TBC (more expensive) instead of a video stabilizer. Once a DVD is recorded, correcting noise or other picture-related problems may require a computer and some specialized software, but otherwise, once the DVD is finalized, you're good to go.

Capture cards and software produce great results if you know what you are doing, but getting everthing set up and working correctly is sometimes difficult and time-consuming. If you go that route, you still need a video stabilizer or TBC. A card that does MPEG-2 encoding via hardware, rather than software is probably what you want if the tapes are in good shape. There are capture cards that record in DV format as well, which is a good for editing, and restoration/noise removal, but the video will need to be converted to be DVD compliant.

Either way, if at some point the video ends up on your computer you will need additional software to author your files and burn to DVD. These can be very simple, and easy to use freeware programs, especially if the DVD does not need a menu.

This begets a question. I can capture analogue video using a Pinnacle Dazzle (which uses EyeTV hardware). The resulting file is MP4. I then author my DVDs using iDVD on my MacBook.

In theory I believe that if I use hardware encoding (a la Canopus) I would get a better result. Is this the case? Or has the MP4 format come a long way? BTW, the captured videos come out as 640X480.

Thoughts / comments?

[usually_quiet]

This begets a question. I can capture analogue video using a Pinnacle Dazzle (which uses EyeTV hardware). The resulting file is MP4. I then author my DVDs using iDVD on my MacBook.

In theory I believe that if I use hardware encoding (a la Canopus) I would get a better result. Is this the case? Or has the MP4 format come a long way? BTW, the captured videos come out as 640X480.

Thoughts / comments?

Pinnacle's Dazzle product line has a very poor reputation. Hauppauge's capture cards, and most other capture cards with hardware MPEG-2 encoding, would do a better job.

Canopus makes fine products, but rather costly. Most of the ones I see mentioned here are for DV capture, though I would guess they make excellent cards for MPEG-2 capture as well.

[joomlales]

This begets a question. I can capture analogue video using a Pinnacle Dazzle (which uses EyeTV hardware). The resulting file is MP4. I then author my DVDs using iDVD on my MacBook.

In theory I believe that if I use hardware encoding (a la Canopus) I would get a better result. Is this the case? Or has the MP4 format come a long way? BTW, the captured videos come out as 640X480.

Thoughts / comments?

Pinnacle's Dazzle product line has a very poor reputation. Hauppauge's capture cards, and most other capture cards with hardware MPEG-2 encoding, would do a better job.

Canopus makes fine products, but rather costly. Most of the ones I see mentioned here are for DV capture, though I would guess they make excellent cards for MPEG-2 capture as well.

Interesting comment about the Dazzle. Funny thing is when I installed the drivers they showed as being from the EyeTV. What's with that? Your comments aside, the Dazzle works well - albeit with minimal options. I'd still like some technical commentary on burning DVDs from MP4 versus MPEG2.

[jagabo]

I'd still like some technical commentary on burning DVDs from MP4 versus MPEG2.

Normal DVD players only play MPEG2 video of specific frame sizes and frame rates. You'll have to convert.

[joomlales]

I'd still like some technical commentary on burning DVDs from MP4 versus MPEG2.

Normal DVD players only play MPEG2 video of specific frame sizes and frame rates. You'll have to convert.

This I know... I am just wonndering about how much quality gets lost when you do convert.

[jagabo]

If you use high enough a bitrate the losses will be minimal. By capturing as MP4 you have probably already lost a lot. It's probably been deinterlaced with either a blend filter (2 of every 5 frames will look like a double exposure and the picture will be a little fuzzy on the vertical axis) or a drop field filter (which typically leaves jagged/buzzing near-horizontal edges and 1 duplicate frame out of every 5).

[pepegot1]

Try this: http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/
I get excellent results with it.

[joomlales]

If you use high enough a bitrate the losses will be minimal. By capturing as MP4 you have probably already lost a lot. It's probably been deinterlaced with either a blend filter (2 of every 5 frames will look like a double exposure and the picture will be a little fuzzy on the vertical axis) or a drop field filter (which typically leaves jagged/buzzing near-horizontal edges and 1 duplicate frame out of every 5).

I get it. I suppose I'll have to get a device that hardware encodes to MPEG2 - then burn my DVDs from there. Any suggestions on Mac-compatible hardware encoders? I really need to figure this out end to end.

I appreciate the technical lesson - live and learn.

[ctdvd]

I have a Panasonic DVR and Sony VHS but I'm beginning to think it's not worth it; I did a lot of VHS-> DVD conversion but one of my VHS tapes had copy protection and wondered if this was a simple thing to get over. A lot easier breaking commercial DVDs it would seem.

[lordsmurf]

For Mac, the El Gato products are nice: http://www.elgato.com

[Marvingj]

I agree with gshelley61, clarifiers", "stabilizers", and "enhancers" is the way to go....

[pfracassa1979]

Hello, I'd came across this thread while searching for information on copying VHS tapes with copy-protection to DVD without dealing with errors like "you cannot record copyrighted movie" (Sony) from regular DVD-recorders. The simplest way I've found to copy Macrovision-enabled videos to DVD is as follows:

Items Needed:
1. a DV Camcorder, VTR or Formac that converts Analog-->DV via 1394 in realtime passthrough mode (without a tape)
2. a Macintosh with a Firewire SDK Toolkit appropriate for your OS, which includes VirtualDV, a dv-vcr simulation program,
3. iDVD version 6 (tested)
4. HDD Space (about 15GB/hour)
5. A superdrive or other Apple-supported DVD burner.

Run your VHS from a good-quality VCR (one built-into a combo DVD Recorder/VCR is best because of the internal TBC).
Using the best connection possible for your DV digitizer (S-Video preferred, but the Sony DSR-45 Supports Component-IN!).
Set the device to encode from analog to DV without a tape & connect it to the Mac running Virtual DV via firewire.
Play your content & record a new file in Virtual DV, which allows recording of material containing Macrovision Signals!
Once captured, close the file & bring it into iDVD using "OneStep Movie from File" in the File Menu, and that's it.
Apple iDVD 6.0.3 does not look for copy protection & will encode the video unconditionally.

Beware that many DV Camcorders will make the DV-output go to black if you connect a copy-protected video to its inputs, in addition to not allowing it to be recorded on tape. Sony Camcorders & DV Decks all seem to allow converting of copy-protected videos into DV in passthrough mode, but others like JVC will stop outputting data when Macrovision is encountered.

If your resulting video is too bright, be aware that not all DV encoders use the same IRE specifications for the black level. Try putting a 93 Ohm, 75 Ohm or 50 Ohm Terminator inline with the video input to the DV digitizer in order to conform the brightness levels to what they are supposed to look like. Regular Video (CVBS) can accept a terminator, but not S-Video, unless you have a Y/C seperator cable. In the case of this, put the terminator on the Luminance Channel only. If you use a Sony DSR-45 with component inputs & have a bright picture, put the terminator on the Y-Input only, but use a BNC "T" on the input connector as the bottom row of "video through" ports are re-amplified & output by the recorder and won't be affected by termination. Another note on the source VCR used, LG & Zenith DVD Players & Recorders output a much brighter signal than most others which will require creative matching of the video level using terminators, or you will get lots of "white clipping" in bright areas of the image.

[lordsmurf]

Using DV adds extra compression, so it's not always the best idea for capturing analog video. The DV format was not really invented with VHS>DVD in mind, and there are drawbacks to using it in that way.