Are my PCs too old for the latest & greatest processors?

[siratfus]

Hey guys, I want to upgrade my processor for faster blu-ray encoding. Right now, to shrink down from a 45gb blu ray to 25gb, it's taking 30 to 50 hours on the XPS 400/9150. I haven't tried it on my Gen 5, but figure it would yield similar results.

Here are my 2 PCs:

PC #1 = XPS/Dimension 400/9150

1 W9445 Processor,80547,PDSD,830 SKT-T,Male
1 UD278 Base,Matrix Tank Desktop PSPD,830,9150/400
1 F6405 Module,Information,No Raid, Dimension
1 H9145 Module,Card,Graphics,128 MRMGA9A

PC #2 = XPS/Dimension XPS Gen 5

1 GC068 Assembly,Card,Planar,XPS-G5
1 W8403 Processor,80547,Pentium 4 Prescott Dt,640,SKT-T,Male
1 K9341 Card,Graphics,256,6800,HMGA11 NV42


The above info is copy and pasted from the dell specs using my service tag number, I deleted most of the info I think you wouldn't need to know. I'm actually not knowledgeable with pc parts lingo. I figure that's pertinent info for you guys to know in order to advise me. Here are my questions:

1. Which of these 2 pcs is currently the more powerful one? I will choose the better pc to be the one that I will upgrade.
2. Are my pcs outdated? Are they compatible with any of the latest quad core processors?
3. What do I need to look for when shopping for my new processor? What are the key lingos that would apply to me and that I should look out for?

Lastly, though i'm no pc expert, I'm not afraid to go into my pc. Over the years, I've changed optical drives, hard drives, etc. I just have never bothered with the processor. I figure it's time to learn. So lay it on me please. Thank you in advance!

[Soopafresh]

1. Which of these 2 pcs is currently the more powerful one? I will choose the better pc to be the one that I will upgrade.

They're pretty close in performance

2. Are my pcs outdated? Are they compatible with any of the latest quad core processors?

Outdated. Not compatible with any quad core procs. Not worth updating.

3. What do I need to look for when shopping for my new processor? What are the key lingos that would apply to me and that I should look out for?

Look for a new PC with a Q6600 processor or higher instead. The Q9550 is a really good proc for encoding.

Faster (and more expensive) are the Intel I7 processors

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15818/10

[redwudz]

I don't really know much about Dells, but if the PCs use a standard motherboard size, then you might consider just putting in a new motherboard. A Micro-ATX MB, with new RAM and CPU might be the easiest way to upgrade.

You would also need to check your power supply to see if it's upgradeable. Most of the newer Micro-ATX MBs/CPUs need about a 400W PS. If yours is a 250 - 300W it may be marginal. Also newer MBs may use different connectors that your PS may not have have, such as the CPU power connector.

One downside to newer MBs is they usually only have one IDE connector for two PATA drives. Options are using SATA drives or a add on PCI slot PATA adapter. Good news is that most of those MBs have good on-board sound, video, and LAN adapters.

Just one suggestion if no one here is able to give you advice about your existing MBs and upgrading the CPUs.

I backup my BDs to 8.5GB MKVs with two pass encoding in about 5 hours with the PC in my computer details.

[Soopafresh]

I don't really know much about Dells, but if the PCs use a standard motherboard size, then you might consider just putting in a new motherboard.

Great idea except that they're older Dells, which means they're incredibly proprietary, down to the power supply. Standard mobos and PSUs won't fit. I'll bet they did that on purpose.

[redwudz]

I don't really know much about Dells, but if the PCs use a standard motherboard size, then you might consider just putting in a new motherboard.

Great idea except that they're older Dells, which means they're incredibly proprietary, down to the power supply. Standard mobos and PSUs won't fit. I'll bet they did that on purpose.

That was nice of them. Then, new case, MB and PS, etc., and reuse the drives? And I forgot the OS would have to be re-installed with a new MB. Looks like a complete new computer would be easier.

My guide for building a computer is a bit old, but still useful for the basics: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic315746.html

[hech54]

Great idea except that they're older Dells, which means they're incredibly proprietary

VERY old Dells yes. I have an old Dell and proprietary could not be further from the truth....unless you are talking
drive rails priced at about $3 per pair.

[jagabo]

You could squeeze a little more performance out of your current motherboards with a Pentium D (dual core) CPU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116093

You might need a BIOS update.

Otherwise shoot for a new computer with an Intel Core i5 750 or Core i7 920 CPU. Maybe an AMD Phenom 2 X4.

[ronnylov]

I would say Intel Core i5 750 is the most bang for the buck today.
You can compare performance here (note that sometimes "lower is better" and other times "higher is better" in the test results):

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?b=2

For example Q9550 vs core i5 750:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=50&p2=109

The price of core i5 750 is actually lower than the price of Q9550 but you need DDR3 RAM for the Core i5 which cost a little bit more than DDR2, espcially if you already have some DDR2 you want to reuse.

Alternatively you may look at AMD Phenom II:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=109&p2=102
This one will work with DDR2 memory as well as DDR3 depending on which motherboard you choose.

AMD Phenom II X4 965 vs intel Q9550:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=102&p2=50
Similar performance and similar price.

I would get the Core i5 750 because it has lower power consumption than AMD Phenom II and it performes a little bit better overall. The price is about the same as a Q9550 or Phenom II X4 965. Or if you want even better performance in video encoding, then get Core i7 860:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=109&p2=108

[siratfus]

Thank you everybody! I've been itching to learn how to build a pc from scratch anyway. Here's a beginners question.... When shopping for a case, if it says compatible with ATX motherboards, then would it be safe to assume that it works with microATX too? Or, do you have to specifically match a MicroATX case with MicroATX board? Logic tells me if it fits standard atx boards, then it should also work with micro-atx boards.

[budz]

Not all computer cases will work with micro atx mobo's. Best thing is to check the computer case specs by going to the manufacturers website. Intel i7/i5 is still expensive as far as getting compatible mobo's and ram. You won't be disappointed with a Q9550 cpu. If you have a microcenter store near you the Q9550 is cheaper than getting it from Newegg or any other online retailer.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0299412

[redwudz]

You are generally correct. If it fits a full size ATX MB, then a Micro-ATX motherboard should fit with no problem. But check the case information The Micro-ATX is usually just a bit shorter. ATX cases should have both sets of stand offs for the motherboard mounting. A case built specifically for a Micro-ATX MB will be shorter. Micro-ATX cases aren't generally a good idea as they have less cooling options and are a bit more cramped to work on.

[Nelson37]

Bigger is almost always better, for cooling, upgrading, memory and expansion slots, making parts fit without too much bitching about it, etc. Why go Micro?

Size does matter.

[edDV]

You could squeeze a little more performance out of your current motherboards with a Pentium D (dual core) CPU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116093

You might need a BIOS update.

Older Dells may not have power supply reserve for the hot running Pentium D dual core. Make sure the power supply is adequate for the CPU and display card.

[jagabo]

You could squeeze a little more performance out of your current motherboards with a Pentium D (dual core) CPU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116093

You might need a BIOS update.

Older Dells may not have power supply reserve for the hot running Pentium D dual core. Make sure the power supply is adequate for the CPU and display card.

The CPU I linked to was a low power (65 watt) version of the Pentium-D. That's probably lower than the CPUs he has now. The older Pentium-D CPUs were 130 watt, I think.

[ulapines]

Best to check if your motherboard supports double core CPU.

[usually_quiet]

I have a Dell dimension 4300, that I considered upgrading, but I decided to build a new computer inastead.

Dell's website and user forum have a lot of valuable information about possible CPU upgrades, plus downloadable users manuals, in case you have misplaced yours.

Some Dell older models built prior to 2001 needed a PSU with a proprietary power connector to the motherboard. If a standard PSU was used, it would wreck the motherboard. Models built later on have a standard pin-out for that connection. However they generally need a PSU without an on-off switch, with the plug and fan gid in the right spots to match the holes in the back of the case. Standard replacement PSUs often don't meet these requirements, forcing the purchaser to cut away part of the back of the case to install them. Check to see if this is true for your computers. If so, you might prefer to get a PSU made specifically to replace Dell PSUs used inr the models you have.

I found other features that were unique to Dell when I looked at the motherboard for my old system. For example: 5 expansion slots instead of 4 or 7. A non-standard motherboard form factor. A post and spring-clip system for mounting it instead of screws. There are others too. I might have been able to re-use my old case, but it would have entailed a fair amount of work and expense.

I looked at numerous cases while shopping. I did end up choosing a Micro ATX board and case, but looked at quite a few standard ATX cases. Some will take both MATX and ATX, but not all. Sometimes not enough of the mounting holes would line up with those on MATX motherboards to mount one securely. I compared pictures of the boards and case interiors to figure out if an MATX board could be used whenever the description of the case did not specifically say an MATX board could be installed. New Egg and the case manufactuer usually had good pictures.

[siratfus]

You know what guys! I may hold off on building a new PC. I tweaked the BD-Rebuilder a little bit and today I did a BD-25 in 10hrs. Going from 40 hrs to 10 hrs.. I don't get it, but I'm happy. What I did was switched from idle priority to normal priority, and I'm not sure if this is a new feature because I've always left the encoder setting at default, but today I used the "high speed bd-25" setting. Quality still seems fine to me.

[jagabo]

If changing the priority from idle to normal decreased your encoding time from 40 to 10 hours there is something wrong with your computer. You have a program that is sucking up CPU time needlessly. Go to task manager and see what it is.

[siratfus]

If changing the priority from idle to normal decreased your encoding time from 40 to 10 hours there is something wrong with your computer. You have a program that is sucking up CPU time needlessly. Go to task manager and see what it is.

That's not the only variable. I also changed the encoding setting to "High Speed Option BD-25."

[ocgw]

You know what guys! I may hold off on building a new PC. I tweaked the BD-Rebuilder a little bit and today I did a BD-25 in 10hrs. Going from 40 hrs to 10 hrs.. I don't get it, but I'm happy. What I did was switched from idle priority to normal priority, and I'm not sure if this is a new feature because I've always left the encoder setting at default, but today I used the "high speed bd-25" setting. Quality still seems fine to me.

Trust me when I say this, when you first reencode a movie w/ BD Rebuilder it is amazing, even when reencoded to BD-9, in my opinion the reencode does very well on the clear distinct focused and detailed foreground, but the x264 encoder doesn't do nearly as good a job on the dark portions, and monotone or of out focus backgrounds

As we don't usually concentrate on backgrounds the video looks great to us, just like the original, but after you have done a few movies (5-10) you will start to notice that some movies have very distinct compresson artifacts in the background

In all fairness a lot of BD's must already be compressed close to the visible limit judging by the appearance of late of low budget BD's w/ clearly visible and highly annoying compression artifacts in the commercial release (Way of War, Midnight Meat Train)

Bear in mind I have made these objective observations w/ my own eyes after doing dozens of encodes to BD-9's @ ALL highest and slowest settings

As I have just recently upgraded from a BD reader to a BD burner I don't have as much experience w/ BD-25 but from my experience I don't have high hopes of getting transparent reencodes w/ "quickest settings"

ocgw

peace[/quote]

[siratfus]

You know what guys! I may hold off on building a new PC. I tweaked the BD-Rebuilder a little bit and today I did a BD-25 in 10hrs. Going from 40 hrs to 10 hrs.. I don't get it, but I'm happy. What I did was switched from idle priority to normal priority, and I'm not sure if this is a new feature because I've always left the encoder setting at default, but today I used the "high speed bd-25" setting. Quality still seems fine to me.

Trust me when I say this, when you first reencode a movie w/ BD Rebuilder it is amazing, even when reencoded to BD-9, in my opinion the reencode does very well on the clear distinct focused and detailed foreground, but doesn't do nearly as good a job on the dark portions, and monotone out of focus backgrounds

As we don't usually concentrate on backgrounds the video looks great to us, just like the original, but after you have done a few movies (5-10) you will start to notice that some movies have very distinct compresson artifacts in the background

In all fairness a lot of BD's must already be compressed close to the visible limit judging by the appearance of late of low budget BD's w/ compression artifacts in the commercial release (Way of War, Midnight Meat Train)

Bear in mind I have made these objective observations w/ my own eyes after doing dozens of encodes to BD-9 @ ALL highest and slowest settings

As I have just recently upgraded from a BD reader to a BD burner I don't have as much experience w/ BD-25 but from my experience I don't have high hopes of getting transparent reencodes w/ "quickest settings"

ocgw

peace

OCGW, post back again when you've done a few B-25 on both high and slow settings. I'd like to know what you think. Or PM me if this thread will be outdated by then. I would imagine when doing BD-5 or BD-9, that setting it to high quality would be extremely important. I think the difference is unnoticeable with bd-25, but also impractical for me with my dinosaur computer. I have to use the high-speed option. But please get back to me, I'd like to know your opinion after you have done a few.

[ocgw]

You know what guys! I may hold off on building a new PC. I tweaked the BD-Rebuilder a little bit and today I did a BD-25 in 10hrs. Going from 40 hrs to 10 hrs.. I don't get it, but I'm happy. What I did was switched from idle priority to normal priority, and I'm not sure if this is a new feature because I've always left the encoder setting at default, but today I used the "high speed bd-25" setting. Quality still seems fine to me.

Trust me when I say this, when you first reencode a movie w/ BD Rebuilder it is amazing, even when reencoded to BD-9, in my opinion the reencode does very well on the clear distinct focused and detailed foreground, but doesn't do nearly as good a job on the dark portions, and monotone out of focus backgrounds

As we don't usually concentrate on backgrounds the video looks great to us, just like the original, but after you have done a few movies (5-10) you will start to notice that some movies have very distinct compresson artifacts in the background

In all fairness a lot of BD's must already be compressed close to the visible limit judging by the appearance of late of low budget BD's w/ compression artifacts in the commercial release (Way of War, Midnight Meat Train)

Bear in mind I have made these objective observations w/ my own eyes after doing dozens of encodes to BD-9 @ ALL highest and slowest settings

As I have just recently upgraded from a BD reader to a BD burner I don't have as much experience w/ BD-25 but from my experience I don't have high hopes of getting transparent reencodes w/ "quickest settings"

ocgw

peace

OCGW, post back again when you've done a few B-25 on both high and slow settings. I'd like to know what you think. Or PM me if this thread will be outdated by then. I would imagine when doing BD-5 or BD-9, that setting it to high quality would be extremely important. I think the difference is unnoticeable with bd-25, but also impractical for me with my dinosaur computer. I have to use the high-speed option. But please get back to me, I'd like to know your opinion after you have done a few.

I'll definitely get back to you, but my main point is you can't really judge the impact of your settings in BD Rebuilder until after you have done a few (5-10)

IMHO

ps. If you are gonna' do a lot of reencodeing you could not have picked a better time, we are now living in the era of the $99USD quad core processor

ocgw

peace

[lacywest]

Thank you everybody! I've been itching to learn how to build a pc from scratch anyway. Here's a beginners question.... When shopping for a case, if it says compatible with ATX motherboards, then would it be safe to assume that it works with microATX too? Or, do you have to specifically match a MicroATX case with MicroATX board? Logic tells me if it fits standard atx boards, then it should also work with micro-atx boards.

Well ... you saw the answers ... I haven't run into the problem of a matx not fitting into a ATX case.

I recently put a .... MSI K9N6PGM2-V ... in a ATX case .... I had to make sure the brass standoffs were located where they belong to attach the mobo ... you dont want a metal standoff ... screwed into an area where it misses the screw holes and is actually making contact with the board underneath ... nice big spark might appear if it is shorting out the circuit board underneath.

Some extra nylon standoffs or something similar would be handy to place in the screwholes in the mobo [some areas of the mobo will actually have some left over screwholes that you can put in some of those nylon push pin standoffs] in areas where you will be pushing connection cables into .... in case there isn't any brass / screw attachment in that area of the mobo ... providing support when it is barely floating a quarter of an inch off the back plate area of the metal case / tower.

If you buy a Tower / Case brand new inside the box will be a smaller box ... usually ... inside this box will be the brass standoffs and screws and feet ... and other odds and ends.

Dont let my info scare you ... nothing hard about mounting a mobo into a new case ... you basically become a dentist and spend some time bending over ... attaching stuff. Just pay attention to where the mobo will be located and see if anything metal is perhaps rising up and then decide if it is possible that it could make contact with the board underneath. Not all case / towers are the same.

My reason for saying this ... I just recently did mount a ... MSI K9N6PGM2-V ... in a Enermax tower ... the mobo before it was a ATX mobo and the brass standoffs were still there ... one of the brass standoffs didn't match the mounting holes for the MSI K9N6PGM2-V ... if I had left it there ... it could have have been making contact with the board underneath and produce a short circuit ... bad bad bad.

A micro ATX mobo cost less than a full size ATX mobo ... usually ... but ... depending on whether you have a need for it ... I find myself wanting to add more cards in the PCI slots ... sound card ... USB 2.0 card / with Firewire ... HDTV tuner card. MATX mobos only have two usually ... a full size ATX board will have more than 2 PCI slots.

[redwudz]

A micro ATX mobo cost less than a full size ATX mobo ... usually ... but ... depending on whether you have a need for it ... I find myself wanting to add more cards in the PCI slots ... sound card ... USB 2.0 card / with Firewire ... HDTV tuner card. MATX mobos only have two usually ... a full size ATX board will have more than 2 PCI slots.

Even some Micro-ATX MBs have a great on-board sound chip, and lots of USB 2.0 ports and some have FireWire. But there is a lack of extra PCI slots, though some ATX MBs have maybe only three, so not a great difference. I do have a HDTV tuner added to my HTPC. My HTPC Micro-ATX MB also has a decent video chip and outputs to my HDMI projector for Blu-ray playback at full 1920 X 1080. Micro-ATX MBs have improved quite a bit. If you're into gaming, then definitely you want a full ATX MB and SLI and all the rest of that stuff. But Micro-ATX MBs have come a long way.

And I use those plastic standoffs also to support the edges of a MB. They used to include a handful of them with the older MBs. I clip off the base on some to make them the same height as the brass standoffs.

[ocgw]

I have BD-Rebuilder on a trial run reencoding "The Day After Tomorrow" (already demuxed to main movie w/ downconverted DTS and no subs) w/ the "High-Speed Option (BD-25)

Input size: 25.06GB

Target Size: 22.46GB

Settings: no changes to audio or video resolution

It is running @ a pretty nice clip of 47 fps, will report my observations shortly

Well the results are in

I have no use for the "High-speed Option" due to blockiness and poor graduations of tone in dark portions of the picture

That is w/ just trying to knock off a less than 2GB out of 25GB

Simply useless

ocgw

peace

[SingSing]

I don't really know much about Dells, but if the PCs use a standard motherboard size, then you might consider just putting in a new motherboard.

Great idea except that they're older Dells, which means they're incredibly proprietary, down to the power supply. Standard mobos and PSUs won't fit. I'll bet they did that on purpose.

That was nice of them. Then, new case, MB and PS, etc., and reuse the drives? And I forgot the OS would have to be re-installed with a new MB. Looks like a complete new computer would be easier.

My guide for building a computer is a bit old, but still useful for the basics: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic315746.html

The last time, I did upgrade from Compaq desktop PC and a BYOC, with P4 CPU. Nearlly all the things are replaced, except power supply, case, KB, mouse, and plug in cards.

CPU, MB, memory, HD, all have to replace to make a PC upgrade work.

[lacywest]

A micro ATX mobo cost less than a full size ATX mobo ... usually ... but ... depending on whether you have a need for it ... I find myself wanting to add more cards in the PCI slots ... sound card ... USB 2.0 card / with Firewire ... HDTV tuner card. MATX mobos only have two usually ... a full size ATX board will have more than 2 PCI slots.

Quote - Redwudz - And I use those plastic standoffs also to support the edges of a MB. They used to include a handful of them with the older MBs. I clip off the base on some to make them the same height as the brass standoffs.

Yep ... I do to ... I clip off the screw portion that other wize would make the board too high in some areas.

Sound card wize ... I have tried the sound card feature in the mobo I used [Realtek High Definition] ... I actually had all the sound outputs connected to the back of the Pioneer Receiver ... fronts ... center ... back channels ... but I also have two ... HT Omega Striker 7.1 sound cards ... I heard better back channel sound with the HT Omega sound card ... so I used it instead.

[siratfus]

I have BD-Rebuilder on a trial run reencoding "The Day After Tomorrow" (already demuxed to main movie w/ downconverted DTS and no subs) w/ the "High-Speed Option (BD-25)

Input size: 25.06GB

Target Size: 22.46GB

Settings: no changes to audio or video resolution

It is running @ a pretty nice clip of 47 fps, will report my observations shortly

Well the results are in

I have no use for the "High-speed Option" due to blockiness and poor graduations of tone in dark portions of the picture

That is w/ just trying to knock off a less than 2GB out of 25GB

Simply useless

ocgw

peace

Wow, "useless" is pretty harsh. I think to each his own. When I use dvd shrink to compress a dvd to about 55%, I can see the blocky artifacts. With blu-rays, I've done 3 under high-speed: Coraline, Race to Witch Mountain and the Machinist, which is a movie with lots of dark scenes.... . I don't see the blocky artifacts you're talking about and I'm keeping all menus too. Are you using a PS3? Maybe my Ps3 is outputting the movie nicely an my lcd is a samsung TOC 52a750. I don't understand. I was sure you'd like the results, that's why I asked for you to post back. Well, I don't mind imperfection if you have to go looking for it. And that's how I feel about the high speed blu-rays I've done so far. Sitting back at a normal distance, I don't see anything. I need to get up close to the LCD to find something, but you can also find something wrong with original blu-rays if you're up that close. But like you said, I may have a change of tune after I do about 10 movies.

I still plan to build a quad-core pc, and when I do, I'll go back to high-quality.

[usually_quiet]

It is good to have PCI-E slots as well as PCI slots if you want to use TV cards. I looked at several new ones that use PCI-Express x1. That seems to be the direction for the future, along with external devices.

In fact, for recording TV in a situation where an STB is required for service, an external device that uses an IR blaster to change the channel on the STB may be the best option. I also read about one external tuner from ATI that accepts cable cards, which some reviews said will be very compatible with Windows 7's Media Center.

[ocgw]

I have BD-Rebuilder on a trial run reencoding "The Day After Tomorrow" (already demuxed to main movie w/ downconverted DTS and no subs) w/ the "High-Speed Option (BD-25)

Input size: 25.06GB

Target Size: 22.46GB

Settings: no changes to audio or video resolution

It is running @ a pretty nice clip of 47 fps, will report my observations shortly

Well the results are in

I have no use for the "High-speed Option" due to blockiness and poor graduations of tone in dark portions of the picture

That is w/ just trying to knock off a less than 2GB out of 25GB

Simply useless

ocgw

peace

Wow, "useless" is pretty harsh. I think to each his own. When I use dvd shrink to compress a dvd to about 55%, I can see the blocky artifacts. With blu-rays, I've done 3 under high-speed: Coraline, Race to Witch Mountain and the Machinist, which is a movie with lots of dark scenes.... . I don't see the blocky artifacts you're talking about and I'm keeping all menus too. Are you using a PS3? Maybe my Ps3 is outputting the movie nicely an my lcd is a samsung TOC 52a750. I don't understand. I was sure you'd like the results, that's why I asked for you to post back. Well, I don't mind imperfection if you have to go looking for it. And that's how I feel about the high speed blu-rays I've done so far. Sitting back at a normal distance, I don't see anything. I need to get up close to the LCD to find something, but you can also find something wrong with original blu-rays if you're up that close. But like you said, I may have a change of tune after I do about 10 movies.

I still plan to build a quad-core pc, and when I do, I'll go back to high-quality.

My feelings are if I spend the time and money to shrink a blu ray, and it looks worse than a DVD, then I should have just bought the DVD and saved myself the trouble, however I am playing my movies w/ Cyberlink PowerDVD 8 and a 8800GTX thru hdmi, it is quite possible that your PS3's hardware is better for blu ray playback than mine, but I kinda' doubt that is the case, I have all top grade components thruout the chain

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic368691.html

ocgw

peace