2009 digital broadcast transition clarification

[siratfus]

I'm still not sure what this transition means to my existing equipment. I have pioneer dvr-420hs, it's pretty much the same unit as the dvr-520hs. I want to upgrade it, but I'm wondering if I'll be wasting my money since they may not be able to tune channels next year? I would like to know if this transition will affect my machine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but here is my dreaded assumption: "My pioneer dvr-420hs has an analog tuner, thus, when the digital transition kicks in, the tuner on my dvd recorder will no longer work. Most dvd recorders out there right now have analog tuners, so they will all be obsolete."

Is that the correct assumption? Or, will my machine still be okay? Is there something I don't understand? Please advise.

Thank you in advance!

[MOVIEGEEK]

If you are using OTA antenna you will need a converter.

[edDV]

If you are on cable or sat, nothing will be different.

If you are using an OTA antenna, all the analog stations will turn to noise on the date. An external digital ATSC tuner can be used. SD out models will be cheap (~$60 less $40 rebate) and connect S-video or composite. The problem will be automatically changing channels unless your DVD recorder and ATSC tuner support IR Blaster like remote. Check that out before you buy a tuner.

New DVD recorders come with ATSC* tuners or no tuner. Models without tuners are fine for use with cable boxes or satellite tuners.


* ATSC tuners are for over the air only. Some models also support QAM tuning for directly tuning non-encrypted cable channels. The local broadcast stations will be non-encrypted.

[siratfus]

If you are on cable or sat, nothing will be different.

If you are using an OTA antenna, all the analog stations will turn to noise on the date. An external digital ATSC tuner can be used. SD out models will be cheap (~$60 less $40 rebate) and connect S-video or composite. The problem will be automatically changing channels unless your DVD recorder and ATSC tuner support IR remote. Check that out before you buy a tuner.

New DVD recorders come with ATSC* tuners or no tuner. Models without tuners are fine for use with cable boxes or satellite tuners.


* ATSC tuners are for over the air only. Some models also support QAM tuning for directly tuning non-encrypted cable channels. The local broadcast stations will be non-encrypted.

Okay, I guess this doesn't affect me since I've been using Charter cable for all my life. However, I'm curious... you said.

"Models without tuners are fine for use with cable boxes or satellite tuners."

I thought all recorders have some sort of built in tuner for timer recording?

[edDV]

If you are on cable or sat, nothing will be different.

If you are using an OTA antenna, all the analog stations will turn to noise on the date. An external digital ATSC tuner can be used. SD out models will be cheap (~$60 less $40 rebate) and connect S-video or composite. The problem will be automatically changing channels unless your DVD recorder and ATSC tuner support IR remote. Check that out before you buy a tuner.

New DVD recorders come with ATSC* tuners or no tuner. Models without tuners are fine for use with cable boxes or satellite tuners.


* ATSC tuners are for over the air only. Some models also support QAM tuning for directly tuning non-encrypted cable channels. The local broadcast stations will be non-encrypted.

Okay, I guess this doesn't affect me since I've been using Charter cable for all my life. However, I'm curious... you said.

"Models without tuners are fine for use with cable boxes or satellite tuners."

I thought all recorders have some sort of built in tuner for timer recording?

Not for all newest models. It is now illegal in the USA to manufacture/import a model with just an NTSC tuner. It either has an ATSC tuner (w/opt inclusion of NTSC and/or QAM tuners) or no tuner. The no tuner models usually include optional IR blaster capability for use with cable or sat boxes.

[Cornucopia]

Note that even Cable doesn't provide complete protection...sooner or later they'll be converting over also--once they have to start competing with all the extra digital channels & services made available by the conversion. Marketplace darwinism, you know (adapt or die out).

Scott

[WillTexas]

I've read so many postings and reports and pieces of advice that I'm really confused now. I just have a couple of questions. I'd appreciate any help you could provide. I have Verizon FiOS TV service, and I want to get a DVD recorder or VCR/DVD recorder combo in order to record shows and watch them at my convenience or transfer my home movies (VHS) to DVD. I currently have a VCR recording TV shows from the Verizon fiber optic box. (I do not have a DVR and do not want to get one.) Will I still be able to use my (5-yr.-old) VCR to record TV shows after the "switch" in 2009?

[kimco52]

"I have Verizon FiOS TV service,"
Generally speaking, you can consider Verizon Fios as the equivalent of Cable. However, the easiest way to get answers for your specific application is to call or visit Verizon and ask them. Ask them if your current equipment will work after the analog shutdown.

Remember, the analog shutdown ONLY affects "Over The Air" transmissions in February. If you are getting your service from satellite, cable, any other system where you have to connect to their box for service, you will not be affected.

[jjeff]

Will I still be able to use my (5-yr.-old) VCR to record TV shows after the "switch" in 2009?

Yes, as long as you can feed your VCR a analog output from your STB you can record it, assuming their is not some type of Copy Protection involved.

[edDV]

[quote="jjeff"]

Will I still be able to use my (5-yr.-old) VCR to record TV shows after the "switch" in 2009?

Your FIOS box won't change so recording off that will continue.

If you attach rabbit ears to the VCR tuner, it won't find any over the air stations after Feb '09.

[wabjxo]

If you attach rabbit ears to the VCR tuner, it won't find any over the air stations after Feb '09.

... but you can attach a converter box to it and record digital channels you can receive OTA (rabbit ears or full antenna) via a line input to the VCR... a "Zero-Cost" solution with Govt coupon?

[edDV]

If you attach rabbit ears to the VCR tuner, it won't find any over the air stations after Feb '09.

... but you can attach a converter box to it and record digital channels you can receive OTA (rabbit ears or full antenna) via a line input to the VCR... a "Zero-Cost" solution with Govt coupon?

Yes, same as an analog TV. Limitation is you can't program channel changes without some kind or IR remote control.

[retro junkie]

I know this is old, but I have just began investigating and considering all my alternatives at this point. (I just saw this thread, even though I have been visiting and reading here for the past two years. Maybe it is because I have just became concerned about this topic.)

For a cable company, if you read the fine print, it is volunteer to change from analog to sending a digital signal into the homes in Feb. (I am sure that many will change at some point.) My local cable company (New Wave) is going to be sending a digital signal and they will provide a converter box to those who will need one for rental at $3.95 a month.

I've already sent for my free government coupons and have purchased one of the converters. I picked up a cheap set of rabbit ears this past week just to see what is “there” over the airwaves. I have been shocked at the quality and clarity of the free broadcast being better than what my local cable company has been providing. The color is even better. I am very seriously considering going back to a TV antenna or use one as a supplement. I have already started pricing antennas.

Presently I am learning how to use the converter box and trying to get used to using it with all its little quirks.

[wabjxo]

OTA is great if you've got broadcast stations near enough. Lots of people are going back to antennas... on the roof, in the attic, etc.

Here's a good place for you to find other people in your city/area and what cable and OTA channels they're getting. Could help you decide if OTA is the way to go for you? Use the "Search this Forum" at the top right of the page.

[edDV]

Enter your address into antennaweb.org and they will predict a list of channels available at your address. Some may need a roof top antenna.
http://www.antennaweb.org/

[retro junkie]

Thanks for those links. I might have to enter my area in that list on that one site.

I have found, just using these cheap rabbit ears, over 15 individual stations so far. Some channels, like Fox, are broadcasting in HD and SD, which are two channels. I am not counting that in my stations that I am finding. To me that is the same station. I am picking up the three major ones , like CBS, NBC, and ABC. I found that ABC has a 24 hour local weather channel that was unknown to me. I am surprised to find that many already up and running. I have been moving the rabbit ears all over the room to find stations. I was so used to snow and the frizzies with analog the last time I had to deal with an antenna. The clarity of the digital really blows my mind.

I was wondering if a digital signal carries better than an analog signal over the airwaves? Or is it just the stations have beefed up the signal because of wanting to deliver on the HD?

[edDV]

...

I was wondering if a digital signal carries better than an analog signal over the airwaves? Or is it just the stations have beefed up the signal because of wanting to deliver on the HD?

You must be close in or on a hill. DTV goes about the same distance but holds quality near 100% until the signal fades then it degrades to nothing. Large cities are at near full power, many rural areas are at minimal power until next Feb.

[gadgetguy]

I've recently switched from cable to antenna and am still working out some of the quirks of OTA digital TV. As edDV said and as you've experienced, if you can receive the signal with adequate strength, the picture is perfect. I have found though that if the signal is borderline, you will receive momentary drop outs. This manifests in a couple ways, usually some blockiness and sometimes picture freeze. The blockiness can range from just a few spots in an otherwise perfect picture, to so many blocks that you can't make out what the scene is. This is almost always accompanied by audio drop out. Don't get me wrong, this only happens with marginal signals so if you start seeing this on some channels, chances are that you are not receiving a good signal from them. This may be due to your antenna placement/alignment or it could be that the broadcaster is not yet at full strength. (I have yet to find a way to determine which is the case and the stations in my area don't respond when asked about their signal strength.) Another problem I have encountered is that some channels require an amplifier to compensate for the cable loss in the down lead, but this has had a negative effect on the strongest signals. Over-amplification can cause the signal to be unreadable, and you can't receive the channel at all, unless you remove the amplification.

[edDV]

This site gives an indication of station power. For mor detail follow the "filing number" to detailed FCC documents.
http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php

[retro junkie]

You must be close in or on a hill. DTV goes about the same distance but holds quality near 100% until the signal fades then it degrades to nothing. Large cities are at near full power, many rural areas are at minimal power until next Feb.

Yes, I am on a hill. My whole town could flood and I would be fine.

I do have drop-outs on some of the stations, but I am making allowances for that, being that, I am only using the rabbit ears. I am thinking that with a good outdoor antenna my reception would be excellent on most, if not all, of the stations. I am living with-in 60 miles, or less, of many of the stations that I am recieving.

Good info there "edDV." I am getting a lot of my stations from the Nashville, Tenn. area. I'm on a KY, Tenn. border, so I think I will recieve a good mix of channels.

I've recently switched from cable to antenna and am still working out some of the quirks of OTA digital TV.

What size antenna are you using? Is it an outdoor one? And thanks for the info on the amplifier. I was thinking about maybe using one.

[gadgetguy]

Great site, thanks edDV. Tons of good information, although most of the stations that I'm interested in don't have the filing number linked, and I'm not sure what that means. Do you know what DA and/or ND mean? I can't find a full text explanation on the site.

[Bix]

The official free government coupon site: https://www.dtv2009.gov/

[gadgetguy]

What size antenna are you using? Is it an outdoor one? And thanks for the info on the amplifier. I was thinking about maybe using one.

It's an outdoor antenna. The biggest model they had at Menards (I'd link to it, but Menards doesn't show product on their website). It's huge, about 10' end to end with a ton of dipoles. Two of the channels I wanted to receive have about a 90 degree difference in direction from my house, and anything smaller needed to be aimed to receive one or the other, but couldn't get both at the same time.

[edDV]

Great site, thanks edDV. Tons of good information, although most of the stations that I'm interested in don't have the filing number linked, and I'm not sure what that means. Do you know what DA and/or ND mean? I can't find a full text explanation on the site.

It means directional or non-directional antenna at the transmitter. You can get to approximate "grade B" contours at the FCC site for each station.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html Enter city and state then ask for detail report. Analog and digital transmitters are listed separately. For example

directional example


non-directional example


Note that most stations are on temporary digital transmitters and antennas 2004-08. Most change channel number and switch to permanent transmitters on 17 Feb, 2009. For most power will increase. Some areas like NYC and San Francisco will take months to make the change as old analog antennas are taken down an new digital antennas are installed. Read the transition plans for each station.

See this thread for more info on contour maps.
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/hauppauge-hvr-1600-hd-tuner-with-mce-2005-t330091.html

[edDV]

And thanks for the info on the amplifier. I was thinking about maybe using one.

Antennas are a complex subject. Amps work best with directional antennas. If you are up near KY border you are well within the grade B contour for WSMV-DT (the new application for Feb '09).



A moderate size roof top antenna would be best for Nashville + a second for Louisville, KY + combiner.

[edDV]

As an example to others, look at the rabbit ears listing for Nashville.



Note that WSMV-DT will end up on Channel 10, WTVF-DT on 05 and WNPT-DT on 8. These are VHF channels so your antennas will need to cover both VHF and UHF. VHF allows these stations to reach further but VHF home antennas are much larger. The lower the channel you want to get, the larger the antenna needs to be. CBS on channel 5 is low band VHF.

[gadgetguy]

That Model PR-7032 in the last drawing looks exactly like the one I put up. Currently one of the channels I'm receiving is in the low-band VHF range, but it will switch to a high-band VHF after the transition. There will be a total of 3 stations in my area transmitting in VHF after the transition.

Edit: Oh yeah, and thanks for explaining DA/ND.

[Bix]

I figured I'd ask here, since I'm still somewhat foggy on the issue:

Here in Long Beach, NY (NYC suburbs), I have always had difficulty with getting a decent signal using an indoor amplified antenna. I'd get something, with some channels much better than others (WWOR, WPIX, and the local UHF Spanish channels being the best), bet never anything especially good. That was before 9/11, when reception in the area got worse with the transmitters, formerly atop the World Trade Center, were moved to the Empire State Building after the attacks. Will the digital transition help with my reception? Will using a convertor box now help at all or more likely after the switch when the signals get better?

thanks!

[MOVIEGEEK]

Bix,
This thread might answer your questions:
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic346808.html

[edDV]

That thread reviewed the situation in NYC. The Empire State Building will go through major up grades all through 2009 removing analog and rebuilding for DT. Check the transition plan for each station you watch at http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php Click on FILINGNUMBER then drop to the comments section at the end for the full story.

In ~2012 the new Trade Center will take over as the primary antenna site.