Burn "QUALITY" rate kbits/sec

[mikemc26m]

First, thanks for all the info. I will be spending many hours here. This is by far the best forum I have found.

First question that I couldn't find an answer for: Where does Pinnacle Studio 11 rate for DVD editing/authoring? It is all I have for now. I am new to this and just learning. I did my first slideshow DVD 2 years ago using Roxio. Last fall I "upgraded" to Studio 11 Ultimate and have done several projects, each with it's own problems. My biggest problem is getting my finished product to play correctly on all players. (skipping or playing fast)

My jpeg slideshows-DVD, no problem. My captured video-different story. Just when I think I have it right, I am wrong. I have many coasters to show for it.

I use Verbatim 16x sl -R. I captured 2 hours of Hi-8 and saved it as mpeg-2. I have to reduce my output to 3000 kbit/sec for it to fit on a DVD. Is this right?

Should all standard DVD be at 5000 kbits/sec? I'm a bit confused because at 3000, Studio 11 says the "quality" is 40% of original, at 5000 it is 67% of original. At "Best Quality" it is set to 7500 and I REALLY run into problems.

Thanks in advance and yes, I know I don't know much at this point so you don't have to remind me of that.

[redwudz]

Bitrate needed depends a lot on your material. Fast action needs more bitrate, slow action less. 3000kbps is a bit on the low side. VHS caps need less bitrate than a DV conversion. Usually one hour of video on a DVD is assumed for best quality. That takes the bitrate up near the suggested maximum of 9800kbps.

None of that has much of anything to do with the burn rate. For 16X, I normally use 12X speeds and use ImgBurn for burning.

Sorry, don't know much about Pinnacle Studio, but others should.

And welcome to our forums.

[mikemc26m]

My goal is simple. I need to max out quality while preserving the ability to play on all/most players. (that play -r, +r)

My example: My wedding dvd is 1 hr. It is widescreen, NOT High Def. I have a menu with different videos to choose from or 2 slideshows to choose from. I burned it at 7500. It played ok on my x-box 360. I made 12 copies for family and they all played ok on 360. THEN I tried it on my old x-box and ALL the video played in fast motion and the slideshows skipped. I call Pinnacle, they tell me to reduce it to 5000 kbits/sec and check the "always re-encode" box. I do this and all is well until my brother calls me today and says "Can't play the video Bro".

All the video was mpeg-2. Used Verbatim 16X DVD -r. When it burned, it burned at approx 12X.

I need a Pinnacle Professional? What do you set your program to for a 2 hour DVD? For a 1 hr dvd? For a 15 min dvd?(in kbits/sec)

After reading some other posts, it is possible my bro's pc just can't handle my DVD.

[guns1inger]

To begin with, game consoles are not a good test of an authored DVD. Always use a standalone player for testing.

Videos playing 'fast motion' is not a bitrate problem, and will not be rectified by reducing the bitrate (and therefore quality) by or to some arbitrary amount. If you can judge a piece of software by the type of support he company offers, then pinnacle just got an 'F'.

Pinnacle has a very chequered history, with some versions being better than others, but none being great. 11 seems to have a reasonable rep amongst the die-hards who have stuck with the product. Personally, I have read enough tales of woe here to not want to use it.

As for "it doesn't play" - well, that doesn't tell you much. There are a lot of reasons for a disc not playing, including authoring, burning, media, hardware (burning and playing).

Simple tests and things to try

1. Never burn from your authoring application. That way lies coasters and madness. Always output your authored disc to your HDD and test it there. Use Media Player Classic or similar (not WMP) to test navigation and overall quality.

2. Use a good burning application. My weapon of choice is Imgburn, and it has never let me down. Prassi ONES is also good. Nero has it's fans, but it does not burn completely compliant discs and can complain about perfectly good structures for no reason.

3. Always burn to good media. Yes, it costs a little more, but the difference in cost is quickly balanced by the fact that a spindle of Verbatims will give you 98 - 100 good burns out of 100, whereas the spindle of cheap crap you paid $4.00 less for will give you maybe 50%.

4. Test your burn. Some use the verify function in their burning software. Some use Nero CD/DVD Speed or DVD Info Pro and run an RPM test.

5. Use a decent standalone player to test play the disc before distributing. More than one if possible.

6. Accept that short of getting a professional pressing, there is no such thing as a universally playable burned DVD

[mikemc26m]

Thank you for the info.

Videos playing 'fast motion' is not a bitrate problem

Then what would cause that to happen? All I changed was the bitrate(& re-encode which I don't think it needed)and a disc that played FAST then played ok.

1. Never burn from your authoring application. That way lies coasters and madness.

OK, this REALLY has me confused. Why NOT? Send me a link or something. So, no good editing software is worthy of burning a disc? I just don't get it.

Nero: I have been using different Nero programs for 10 years. I don't really like Nero.

Question: Should the bitrate be set at the max setting (that allows for the video to fit)?

I realize 3 hours of content will either reduce my bitrate & quality OR I should use a DL.

Look, I have no idea what other programs are capable of. I would like to know if I have 2 unedited hours of VHS or Hi-8 captured in mpeg2 form, can I get this to fit onto a DVD with decent quality? If so, what should the bitrate be? Max allowable? Like I said above, Pinnacle tells me at 3000 my video is 40% quality, but any higher it won't fit. What am I missing?

I'm really starting to feel like an idiot here. Is there just a simple answer? If what you say is true then Pinnacle did me a great injustice by teaching me that bitrate settings directly relates to QUALITY and PLAYABLILITY.

It's almost as if the player can't read/process all the information so to correct it you put less information on it.

FRUSTRATED

[guns1inger]

I have yet to see an authoring application with a decent burning application attached, but that is only a small part of the problem. You are burning an untested DVD. You have no idea if it really works or what it looks like because you haven't seen it prior to burning. Even if you get a good burn out of it, it could well be crap anyway. The navigation could be wrong, the bitrate could be too low etc. You don't know this until you have compiled the disc and tested it. This is why you should go to the HDD first, test it, then burn. If you want to search, you will find many posts in the history of this site that complain about the poor state of burning apps built into authoring tools. For me, it is purely experience and common sense that tells me they are not the way to go.

To work out a bitrate, use a bitrate calculator. There are plenty listed in the tools section. 2 hours is about as much as you can fit on a single layer disc with reasonable quality. You can fit more, but this involves encoding at half D1 resolution so you can drop the bitrates.

The maximum acceptable video bitrate for DVD Video is 9800 kbps, with a combined total of 10800 kbps. Some older players may struggle with bitrates higher than 8500 kbps, but these are rare.

Any encoder or authoring tool that refers to quality is terms of percentages (40% quality) or SP/EP or high/medium/low is talking crap. There are bitrates. That's it. Some video requires a high bitrate to maintain quality while other video can keep the quality at a much lower bitrate. It depends on the content, amongst other factors. 3 hours of VHS or Hi8 sourced material will happily fit on a single layer disc at half-D1 resolution. Can Pinnacle do half-D1 ? Who knows.

[disturbed1]

There isn't such a thing as a good all in one application. It will have to cut corners somewhere. Look at those Printer/Scanners, you either get an OK printer and an OK scanner, or a pretty good printer and an OK scanner, you won't get the best printer and best scanner in an all in one.

Use programs for their primary purpose for best results. IMGBurn does one thing, and does it quite well, it burns CD/DVD images. Kind of hard to screw something up when there is only one thing to master. Start adding in other tasks, and something is going to have to not be upto par.

Pinnacle was right in suggesting 5000kbit/s for an average. You might even be able to get by with 6000 or 6500kbit. 9 out of 10 DVD players will probably play 8000kbit video just fine, but trust me, you or your friend/family will have that one DVD player that won't.

For best DVD compatibility stick to something easy that is known to work. 720x480, 8000kbit max 5000-6000kbit average (or lower if needed) with ac3 audio.

To test playback, I have 5 DVD players spanning across different years and different price groups. This allowed me to find some strange issues that DVD players have. Like not being able to playback an authored DVD with less than 2,000 sectors (~4gig), or not loading if there are no VIDEO_TS.VOB or VTS_01_0.VOB files.

Playing fast, then slow, then ok, is in this forum (Funny speed up slowdown) it relates to GOP issues, basically the encoder didn't do it's job correctly. Either bad options passed, or bad encoder.

As a whole, Pinnacle rates about a -1 out of 10 for various reasons.

Check out Vegas (full version and Studio) along with the Ulead Product line. Vegas is probably the most well liked, Ulead is a love/hate thing

[mikemc26m]

Finally, those last 2 replies helped me. Thanks

I'll try out some different stuff and see what I like/works.

I downloaded Vegas Pro 8 Trial and wow, lot to learn. I may go with the Vegas Studio for starters. I am a fan of Sony. Both my camcorders are Sony and maybe there is a benefit of having their software also.

Also, I'll try imgburn. It makes sense about the printer/scanner, but I figured it wouldn't be the same with software.

LUCKILY, all the project DVDs I sold, for a big project I did in December, turned out. I have had no complaints so far. That DVD was only 16 minutes long and I did it at the full 7500. Go figure.

[disturbed1]

I am a fan of Sony.

To each his own

Vegas started out as an audio editor, originally programed by Sonic Foundry. Sony snatched up the company and kept (most) the devs.

Take a stroll through the tools section on the left. Most products have a free demo. Besides Vegas, I'm partial to Edius and Avid.

Vegas includes DVD Architect, which is a decent stand alone authoring application.

[guns1inger]

Studio would be a better starting point. It has all the main features of Pro, but doesn't give you things you wont need, like unlimited video and audio tracks etc. Still a learning curve, but a lot more stable and predictable than pinnacle.