Power Inverter (150w)

[Browncoat]

I recently bought a Laptop on ebay and it came with a "free gift" of a 150w power inverter that plugs into cigarette lighter socket of car. On the box it says DC in voltage of 11V - 15V and out voltage of 230V. I live in australia and we use 240V. Is this device going to be ok for me? The ebay seller wont respond to me...

Thanks

[edDV]

More important is it 50Hz switchable?
230v will work Ok for most small electronics devices.

[redwudz]

I've used a 120VAC 60Hz inverter in my car for my laptop and it works quite well. (Not during driving ) Make sure it has a fuse and that you unplug it from the lighter socket when not using it. And remember it puts out a fairly lethal voltage so don't be spilling a soft drink on it during operation.

I found another use for the inverter when the power was out at home. I have a portable car jumpstarter battery with a lighter socket. I plugged the inverter in and it runs the laptop for most of the day on a full charge.

[edsmith77]

browncoat,
eddv hit the nail. the voltage will work for you but it is crucial that its output is at 50Hz.

[Browncoat]

Thanks for the responses guys,

I have scoured the box and the unit itself and nowhere does it mention Hz. The device is called "150W Power Converter (Mr 1512)" and googling showed me some sites claiming an output frequency of 50Hz or 60Hz. Do you think this means it would automatically adjust to the correct frequency required?

[edDV]

Thanks for the responses guys,

I have scoured the box and the unit itself and nowhere does it mention Hz. The device is called "150W Power Converter (Mr 1512)" and googling showed me some sites claiming an output frequency of 50Hz or 60Hz. Do you think this means it would automatically adjust to the correct frequency required?

How does that inverter know it's in Australia ?

Check the equipent you need to plug into it to see if it works 50/60Hz.

[edDV]

Here is a listing. There should be a 50/60Hz switch somewhere.
http://www.made-in-china.com/trade-offers/offerviewdTQmIDEbvRhM/Sell-Power-Inverter-MR...512-150W-.html



Maybe the frequency adjusts by type of connector used.
http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture98/maorun/product3.html

[Browncoat]

There is definitely no switch. It is a sealed unit.

[Browncoat]

Maybe the inverter knows its in australia by the type of power cord socket plugged into it? Doesnt every country have specific and individual power plugs?

[Richard_G]

If it is giving 230v out it will be 50Hz, it would only be 60Hz if it was intended for the US market and giving 110v out. We use these, or slightly better quality ones, in out vehicles at work and they work fine. They are perfect for running a laptop and recharging equipment. I've used one for running a TV and VCR in the boot of a car. DO NOT try and use any equipment that is an inductive load, basically anything with a mains voltage motor in it, they don't like it.

The actual frequency isn't terribly important for most bits of kit and the waveform that comes out of them is pretty horrible (usually described as modified square wave) if you look at it on a scope, but they work and havent damaged anything yet.

[noki]

"...I found another use for the inverter when the power was out at home. I have a portable car jumpstarter battery with a lighter socket. I plugged the inverter in and it runs the laptop for most of the day on a full charge.
..."

thanks for the info!! will pick up a charger when they are on sale.

[edsmith77]

Richard_G,
I would not recommend running your alarm clock designed for 60Hz off of a 50Hz source. You may not like the outcome.

[edsmith77]

for eddv,

How does that inverter know it's in Australia ?

That's silly its plugged into an Australian battery.

[redwudz]

In case anybody doesn't know what I mean by a 'jumpstarter':



Most all of them have a 12 lighter socket. They take a while to charge, maybe 4 hours or more initially. Also handy for starting your car. The battery is good for a couple of years, depending on the use. It's a sealed unit, so leakage isn't a problem. I wouldn't pay a lot for one, but many automotive stores or larger chain stores should carry them for a reasonable price.

[noki]

redwudz,

what's a good price for one like yours? thanks.

[ozymango]

I've used a 120VAC 60Hz inverter in my car for my laptop and it works quite well. (Not during driving ) Make sure it has a fuse and that you unplug it from the lighter socket when not using it. And remember it puts out a fairly lethal voltage so don't be spilling a soft drink on it during operation.

This is workable but -- no offense -- a somewhat dangerous (with the high voltage) and redundantly wasteful way of powering a laptop. For starters, laptops do not run on 110 or 220AC, they operate on an internal battery that's usually around 11-12 vdc, and the power adaptor is most likely supplying an input voltage of 16-19vdc. So having a converter take your car's 12vdc, changing it to 110 or 220ac, then putting yet another converter (the laptop's power supply) to take that back down to 16-19vdc ... too many unneeded steps.

Best thing to do is just get a straight DC-DC converter, it'll cost you less and is a heck of a lot safer. I get all my batteries and power supplies from batteryspace.com and an adaptor like this:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2737

will set you back forty bucks. And if you travel the world, this'll work great as I've yet to find a consumer level car that doesn't have a 12-volt DC battery supply.

EDIT: Regarding the original post -- if this converter is being used to power a laptop (I'm hazy on whether the intended use is for a laptop or just to power other 220v items), then I suspect the frequency/voltage doesn't matter anyway: Most laptops of any recent manufacture come with 110/220 50/60hz auto-sensing power supplies, meaning whatever voltage you plug into, you'll get 19vdc (usually) at the output.

[Richard_G]

Richard_G,
I would not recommend running your alarm clock designed for 60Hz off of a 50Hz source. You may not like the outcome. :roll:

You mean you still use alarm clocks that are mains linked to derive the timing? How quaint....

Seriously, that's why I said MOST things will run off them.

[CobraPilot]

Are we overlooking that the laptop uses a transformer to convert the AC back to DC, regardless of source?

Would the transformer care whether it's receiving 50 or 60 hz with regard to converting to DC?

I'm no electrician or electronics engineer, but I'd probably try two tests:

o Measure the voltage output from the laptop's power supply when plugged into a normal wall socket.

o Measure the voltage when hooked up to the inverter.

If they're the same that might suggest the 50/60hz question isn't a factor.

As someone else mentioned DC-to-AC-back-to-DC is an extra step, but if you've already got the device and it'll work with your system . . . . Inefficient, maybe, but doable without further expense.

[edDV]

Are we overlooking that the laptop uses a transformer to convert the AC back to DC, regardless of source?

Would the transformer care whether it's receiving 50 or 60 hz with regard to converting to DC?

I'm no electrician or electronics engineer, but I'd probably try two tests:

o Measure the voltage output from the laptop's power supply when plugged into a normal wall socket.

o Measure the voltage when hooked up to the inverter.

If they're the same that might suggest the 50/60hz question isn't a factor.

As someone else mentioned DC-to-AC-back-to-DC is an extra step, but if you've already got the device and it'll work with your system . . . . Inefficient, maybe, but doable without further expense.

Most laptops, etc. use switching power supply bricks that don't care about 50/60Hz but other types of consumer products do care.

[Richard_G]

Everybody seems to be getting highly worried about this, unnecessarily. CobraPilot has hit the nail on the head. The horrible waveform that comes out of them and the nominal frequency isn't important. Anything with a transformer will operate on any input frequency and anything with a switched mode supply isn't fussed what the frequency is at all. Anything that requires straight mains supply will either work or it won't.

As I already said, we use these things at work all the time. They are usually no better than about 60% efficient so to draw 150W at mains voltage requires the best part of 20 Amps from your car battery. However, we have never found any appliance that has suffered any damage from being operated on one. We've blown up a couple of inverters, had other things that have caused the inverter to shut down and some things that just won't work. But never damaged anything. The only thing we have noticed is that if you run a TV from one, you will see faint hum bars running up the screen.

We even run things like a £30,000 Rohde & Schwartz 30GHz spectrum analyser from one. How else can you do it if you need to run it in a place where there is no mains electricity supply?

Don't worry, it was a freebie, use it whenver you need to until you blow it up, it will die long before anything you plug into it will.

[ozymango]

Everybody seems to be getting highly worried about this, unnecessarily.

Not me, I'm not worried. But I still think it's silly to run a voltage inverter from 12v to 220v with a 20-amp load just to run a power supply to bring that 220v back to 16v at a 2 to 3-amp load.

EDIT: If you've already got an inverter for you car and you're just looking to save money by plugging in your laptop or other device, then more power to you, I'm a cheapskate myself so this is probably what I'd do in the same situation. BUT if people are genuinely curious and/or ignorant about electricity, I certainly and strongly advise just reading up a bit on what voltage and amperage are all about, what kind of power supplies might work best in your particular situation, etc.

The one thing I've noticed a lot myself is how many very expensive power supplies there are out there that often have warnings on them USE THIS ONLY IN MODEL XJ-141 and a great deal of the time, most electrical items out there operate on a narrow range of voltages (6-9-12-16 or 19) and a decent inexpensive adaptor -- well made -- can power about 99% of your stuff at a much better price and just as good if not better quality than what you're paying $$$ for. I've seen laptop "universal" chargers for sale for several hundred dollars that are, frankly, a rip-off -- match your pin-outs and your voltage (and make sure it outputs enough amps) and that's what's most important.

P.S. And never pay $69.95 for a "genuine" laptop power supply for your brand and model!

P.P.S. Don't ever plug a grounded power cable into an ungrounded outlet, either!!!! Which is why I don't use most 12-120v inverters, no actual ground.

P.P.P. S. I just wired a 50amp-240volt hot tub circuit last weekend so I've got high voltage on the brain.

[Richard_G]

Everybody seems to be getting highly worried about this, unnecessarily.

Not me, I'm not worried. But I still think it's silly to run a voltage inverter from 12v to 220v with a 20-amp load just to run a power supply to bring that 220v back to 16v at a 2 to 3-amp load. :)

EDIT: If you've already got an inverter for you car and you're just looking to save money by plugging in your laptop or other device, then more power to you,

Most of the equipment we want to plug in will only run from mains electricity and there isn't a lot of that about if you are in a field! Yes, to use an inverter to turn 12V into 230V to then plug in a laptop power supply to drop it back to 16V or so, is extremely inefficient.

BUT, if your laptop battery is about to go flat and you aren't near a source of mains and have an inverter that cost you nothing, who cares about efficiency?

[ozymango]

BUT, if your laptop battery is about to go flat and you aren't near a source of mains and have an inverter that cost you nothing, who cares about efficiency?

Truth! I remember once I had a brake line failure in my old truck, out on a long trip -- the nearest car parts place didn't have the right hose, but they had the wrong hose and four different adaptors that, when all screwed together, got the brakes working again. :P

[Browncoat]

Thanks all. I think I understand sufficiently now.

This inverter will do the job(albeit inefficiently), I should probably aquire a laptop charger that converts 12V to the 19V my laptop uses.

The ebay seller finally e-mailed me back and said that australias power is between 220-250V so 230 is fine. I always thought we had 240V with little variance..

[edDV]

Thanks all. I think I understand sufficiently now.

This inverter will do the job(albeit inefficiently), I should probably aquire a laptop charger that converts 12V to the 19V my laptop uses.

The ebay seller finally e-mailed me back and said that australias power is between 220-250V so 230 is fine. I always thought we had 240V with little variance..

The 12vdc laptop power supply is a more efficient choice but the inverter will work for a laptop. Most laptop power supplies are multi-voltage, multi-frequency switching supplies. I use one for various chargers while on the road.

You get into trouble with high loads or anything with motors or moving parts.

[vhelp]

@ Browncoat

fwiw, I'm all into solar power and things. Been studying it for a while
now, and there's some interesting things play around with. One, is a
fold-up solar panel that is made for laptops.

And you can self-power your laptop (all day long, using the sun, even under a cloudy
cast) but what I wanted to note here with you, was that if you are surely into taking
advantage of your intervertors use, then you might want to look into your laptops
min/max wattage rating.

Now, the reason I note that with you is because you laptop may be lower than
150 watts, and you may only need a 40 watt invertor, meaning longer (hours) * in use.
I use a 50 watt inverter connected to a 1 AMP, 12 volt battery, to a dv cam. The
unit can last days on that 1 AMP battery. The battery is the size of a 9 volt lantern
battery, if you are familiar with those tiny batteries.

* may be a slight exageration

Course, I also have a jump starter battery, like Redwudz's -- except mine is all
green -- save the trees, hehe.. -- And it has a built-in 300 watt intervert to boast. But
that one has a fan (to help keep it cool) and I fear that it does not last as long as it
should under tiny loads like a dv cam or laptop on account of this fan.

My dream ...

But, one day, I'm gonna find (or, invent) a means to self-power a house with moderate
approach, using a suffecient (gas'less) generator running off a small battery and some
sun

-vhelp 4432

[Richard_G]

But, one day, I'm gonna find (or, invent) a means to self-power a house with moderate
approach, using a suffecient (gas'less) generator running off a small battery and some
sun

Small nuclear fission reactor in your basement. No waste, unlimited power. Unfortunately for some reason the greens don't like it.......

[redwudz]

A friend of mine buys used commercial rack mounted UPS units and uses them as inverters, along with solar panels and a large battery array to supply most of his home electricity. He found they go for a very low price when companies upgrade their equipment. The big cost is the photovoltaics, but you can shop around for the best prices.

Or alternatively. Off the grid and no fossil fuels needed:



But newer homes with photovoltaics, solar water heating and energy efficient construction can also be mostly off the grid. The added cost takes a few years to recover with energy savings, though.