Can anyone recommend a Blue-Ray SATA Drive for my Media PC?

[the_importer]

Hey there,


Just made a new media PC a few weeks ago and it's powerful enough to play High Def movies from the web, so it's got to be Blue-Ray ready.

Only problem is, I can't find a decent Blue-Ray player at a price that's cheaper than a PS3, which is kind of pathetic since I only want the drive.

Anyone has any suggestions of a model I could purchase without breaking the price of a PS3?


Thank you

[jagabo]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010100055+1036533264&name...+DVD-ROM+Drive

[budz]

The LG models seem to have good reviews from Newegg but they are quite expensive. You'll have to surf the net for good deals. Fry's Electronics had a few on sale the last few weeks but they quickly became out of stock. I've read the LITEON models have had problems with playing back certain blu-ray movies. If you get a retail blu-ray drive most come with software to playback blu-ray movies. Otherwise you'll need to purchase the software.

I had considered buying a Blu-ray dvdrom as well but when I calculated the price of getting one plus upgrading my video card it wasn't worth it. Because the cost was the same a Sony PS3.

[the_importer]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010100055+103653326 4&name=Blu-ray+DVD-ROM+Drive

Thanks for the reply mate, now I need to find an Online store that carries those and ship to Canada :P

The LG models seem to have good reviews from Newegg but they are quite expensive. You'll have to surf the net for good deals. Fry's Electronics had a few on sale the last few weeks but they quickly became out of stock. I've read the LITEON models have had problems with playing back certain blu-ray movies. If you get a retail blu-ray drive most come with software to playback blu-ray movies. Otherwise you'll need to purchase the software.

I had considered buying a Blu-ray dvdrom as well but when I calculated the price of getting one plus upgrading my video card it wasn't worth it. Because the cost was the same a Sony PS3.

Really, what are the recommendations for playing Blue-Ray movies in a PC? I have an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ with 2 Gigs of RAM and an on-board video card (NVIDIA 6100). All of this makes it more than capable of running High Def movies from websites such as shows from GameTrailers.com. Surely it must be enough for Blue-Ray movies, high def is high def, right?

[budz]

I assumed you were going to use it to watch blu-ray movies that you'd purchase. I guess if you're just watching hd from the net then your onboard video would be okay. If you were gonna hook up your pc to a hd lcd tv then you'd need a video card that is hdcp enabled.

[jagabo]

The biggest issue you will face is AACS and BD+ encryption. You must have HDCP compliant devices along the entire playback chain. That means the Blu-ray drive, the software, the graphics card, the HDMI cable, and the display. Otherwise the video will be downsized to standard def.

I think an A64 X2 4200 may be borderline without a graphics card that handles the decompression.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3047
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2977

There are tools to strip the AACS encryption but Slysoft's AnyDVD HD is currently the only software that will strip BD+ as well.

[the_importer]

This Media PC is connected to my LCD TV with a standard PC VGA cable, I don't see why an HDMI should be required. Analog is compatible with High Def movies (components) and it doesn't reduce the resolution. I should be able to get 720p out of my VGA cable.

[Billf2099]

Because as Budz says, its a 'security' thing. We didn't make the stupid rules. As they have bullied the hardware industry, HD content will not play as HD unless the 'hardware' it is attached to is certified as HDCP, which means unless you give up all rights and forfeit your rights such as 'the ability to watch it as many times as you want wherever you want' because with HDCP complaint stuff they can take even that away from you. Pretty sobering stuff. I'm betting my HDTV is compliant, but I have no clue if my LCD monitor is, I'm betting its not. Even if it does playback HD files from the net flawlessly. If you want to read more, google DMCA. Read about it, its pretty sobering stuff. If they want to they can prevent you from watching a HD show you DVR'd if they so desire. They say they never will.... I say, the check's in the mail and I won't XXXX in your XXXXX. Assume 'they' are lying, its in their nature. These are same people who tried to keep the VCR from coming into existence.

[the_importer]

Because as Budz says, its a 'security' thing. We didn't make the stupid rules. As they have bullied the hardware industry, HD content will not play as HD unless the 'hardware' it is attached to is certified as HDCP, which means unless you give up all rights and forfeit your rights such as 'the ability to watch it as many times as you want wherever you want' because with HDCP complaint stuff they can take even that away from you. Pretty sobering stuff. I'm betting my HDTV is compliant, but I have no clue if my LCD monitor is, I'm betting its not. Even if it does playback HD files from the net flawlessly. If you want to read more, google DMCA. Read about it, its pretty sobering stuff. If they want to they can prevent you from watching a HD show you DVR'd if they so desire. They say they never will.... I say, the check's in the mail and I won't XXXX in your XXXXX. Assume 'they' are lying, its in their nature. These are same people who tried to keep the VCR from coming into existence.

So are you saying that if I had a standalone Blue-Ray player (or PS3) and that if I hooked it up with component cables, that the picture wouldn't be High Def?

[Nelson37]

That is correct. No HDMI, or DVI, with HDCP, plus HDCP on the monitor, you get stanard def from a Blu-Ray disk.

You would need a stronger video card anyway, your Media PC is not Blu-Ray ready.

Best current solution for the PC is ............. wait.

[budz]

If the display device—or in the case of using a PC to decrypt and play back HD DVD or Blu-ray media, the graphics card (hardware, drivers and playback software)—does not support HDCP, then a connection cannot be established. As a result, a black picture and/or error message will likely be displayed instead of the video content.

That was taken from wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP

the_importer: Is your HD LCD TV 1080p or 720p? What's the brand and model number of your HD LCD TV?

If you did hook up via component cables with a standalone Blu-ray dvd player or PS3 then yes it would be HD. IMHO using HDMI cables will provides better picture quality than component. If you have a 1080p HD LCD TV make use of HDMI. Just my 2 cents!

[the_importer]

That is correct. No HDMI, or DVI, with HDCP, plus HDCP on the monitor, you get stanard def from a Blu-Ray disk.

You would need a stronger video card anyway, your Media PC is not Blu-Ray ready.

Best current solution for the PC is ............. wait.

Strange, I mean Blue-Ray players don't have a fancy video card in them, they are basically dumb computers, so why do I need a better card? Also, if my card is not strong enough, why can I play High Def movies from the Internet and not from Blue-Ray?

If the display device—or in the case of using a PC to decrypt and play back HD DVD or Blu-ray media, the graphics card (hardware, drivers and playback software)—does not support HDCP, then a connection cannot be established. As a result, a black picture and/or error message will likely be displayed instead of the video content.

That was taken from wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP

the_importer: Is your HD LCD TV 1080p or 720p? What's the brand and model number of your HD LCD TV?

If you did hook up via component cables with a standalone Blu-ray dvd player or PS3 then yes it would be HD. IMHO using HDMI cables will provides better picture quality than component. If you have a 1080p HD LCD TV make use of HDMI. Just my 2 cents!

That Wikipedia quote contradicts what you're saying. They're saying that if you don't use DVI or HDMI on your player or PC, that you won't get a picture from your Blue-Ray movie. You're saying that using component will not only display a picture, but that it will still be HD. So who's right?

[jagabo]

The exact behaviour in the absense of a secure HDCP connection is determined by a flag on each disc. Some allow full resolution display over insecure connections, some don't. This was done so as not to piss of the early adopters since the first generations of HDTVs didn't have HDMI/HDCP. I suspect we will see fewer and fewer releases that allow HD over insecure connections in the future.

AACS/BD+/HDMI/HDCP/ is part of a long term industry strategy to take away all your fair use rights. AACS calls for all analog outputs to be banned (on new devices obviously) after 2013.

[poisondeathray]

Strange, I mean Blue-Ray players don't have a fancy video card in them, they are basically dumb computers, so why do I need a better card? Also, if my card is not strong enough, why can I play High Def movies from the Internet and not from Blue-Ray?

If your system specs are up to date, a p4 2.4 will not be able to play high bitrate 1080p movies without assistance.

[jagabo]

Strange, I mean Blue-Ray players don't have a fancy video card in them, they are basically dumb computers

They do have fancy video cards in them. And they are "dumb computers" dedicated to a single purpose. That makes their job much easier.

[the_importer]

Strange, I mean Blue-Ray players don't have a fancy video card in them, they are basically dumb computers, so why do I need a better card? Also, if my card is not strong enough, why can I play High Def movies from the Internet and not from Blue-Ray?

If your system specs are up to date, a p4 2.4 will not be able to play high bitrate 1080p movies without assistance.

Oh my TV doesn't do 1080p, only 720p and 1080i.

[jagabo]

If your system specs are up to date, a p4 2.4 will not be able to play high bitrate 1080p movies without assistance.

Oh my TV doesn't do 1080p, only 720p and 1080i.

Your computer will still have to do all the work of decoding 1080p material when you play Blu-ray or other 1080p movies.

[the_importer]

OK, now if I understand, I need to buy a video card with HDCP in it for it to work. But if I can use Component cables on a standalone Blue-Ray player, this means that I could use a VGA cable on that new card and it would still work (both Components and VGA are analog), I would still get an HD picture?

[jagabo]

If you use component cables on a standalone blu-ray player you will not get HD unless the particular disc allows it.

[the_importer]

If you use component cables on a standalone blu-ray player you will not get HD unless the particular disc allows it.

Well this contradicts what budz said and you can't both be correct.

[jagabo]

Many (all? most?) Blu-ray discs do not use the image constraint token for the time being. So you can view HD over component cables with these discs. When the image constraint token appears on discs you will not be able to view those discs in HD over component.

http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/03/14/sony_wont_downconvert_bluray_h.html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060521-6880.html

[the_importer]

Many (all? most?) Blu-ray discs do not use the image constraint token for the time being. So you can view HD over component cables with these discs. When the image constraint token appears on discs you will not be able to view those discs in HD over component.

http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/03/14/sony_wont_downconvert_bluray_h.html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060521-6880.html

OK, so if Analog connection allows people to view HD with their Blue-Ray movies, then I should have no problem outputting from a (stronger) video card that doesn't have HDCP encoded in it via regular VGA cable, correct?

[Constant Gardener]

Why would a media company deliberately downgrade the quality of their product? Perhaps we should have a website to identify Blu-Ray discs that have such unwanted features.

Tom's Hardware has an article about building a 780G-based HTPC that could play 1080p with onboard video and a low-end processor. http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/amd_780g_chipset/index.htm

[the_importer]

Why would a media company deliberately downgrade the quality of their product? Perhaps we should have a website to identify Blu-Ray discs that have such unwanted features.

Tom's Hardware has an article about building a 780G-based HTPC that could play 1080p with onboard video and a low-end processor. http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/amd_780g_chipset/index.htm

Tom's Hardware had an article :P

[poisondeathray]

Here's TechReport's version of the 780g chipset
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14261/1

Essentially it's integrated graphics version incorporating ATI HD2400 from last generation

You are still getting 40-50% CPU usage on an AMD X2 4850e for 1080p playback. I dislike PowerDVD, but you still need a software player that enables hardware acceleration

[Nelson37]

Doesn't current PC-based Blu-Ray software Demand HDCP compatibility throughout the playback chain, regardless of the disk requirement?

If you make much investment in non-HDCP hardware and they start using the HDCP flag, now you need more hardware.

For the downloaded HD content which plays fine, what type of compression is used? It's the new hi-compression formats which really stress the PC and require the assist from the video card.

Just comparing HDMI and Component with the same content, HDMI is well worth the update.

[Constant Gardener]

Tom's Hardware had an article

Oops. This one works: http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/amd_780g_chipset/

[the_importer]

Doesn't current PC-based Blu-Ray software Demand HDCP compatibility throughout the playback chain, regardless of the disk requirement?

If you make much investment in non-HDCP hardware and they start using the HDCP flag, now you need more hardware.

For the downloaded HD content which plays fine, what type of compression is used? It's the new hi-compression formats which really stress the PC and require the assist from the video card.

Beats me, perhaps you would know: http://www.gametrailers.com/index.php

Anyway, I built this new media PC because my old one (T-Bird 1.33GHz with 512 SDRAM) couldn't handle the HD movies I downloaded. That and it was about time I made a black micro PC which looks 100X better than a beige box in my living room.

Just comparing HDMI and Component with the same content, HDMI is well worth the update.

I just don't want to use an HDMI port on my TV (only have 2 and one is already used) when I could just use the VGA port which is conveniently there just for the sake of a tiny bit of a graphical difference.

[the_importer]

Sorry for the double Post, but I felt like this one deserved it's own one. While browsing on the SONY website for their Blu-Ray player (which I now realized that there is no "e" in Blu-Ray), they recommended downloading the CyberLink program to see if my PC was Blu-Ray ready and these are the results:



Now putting aside the fact that I have no Blu-Ray drive or software to play movies, it seems that only my video card is indeed underpowered to run Blu-Ray movies. This however tells me that my CPU, RAM, OS and Analog video connection (VGA) are ready to handle Blu-Ray movies.

This is good, because like I said before, I don't want to use an HDMI port if I don't have to. Also, I have tried HDMI on this HDTV in the past with my previous media PC using a DVI to HDMI cable and I wasn't able to use a resolution higher than 720 X 480, I would get scrambled colors and resolution (which can harm the TV) if I tried to put it any higher.

[jagabo]

OK, so if Analog connection allows people to view HD with their Blue-Ray movies, then I should have no problem outputting from a (stronger) video card that doesn't have HDCP encoded in it via regular VGA cable, correct?

It depends on the player software. From what I've heard, the current player programs degrade the video over VGA whether the image constraint token is set or not.

it seems that only my video card is indeed underpowered to run Blu-Ray movies. This however tells me that my CPU, RAM, OS and Analog video connection (VGA) are ready to handle Blu-Ray movies.

Because PowerDVD uses hardware decompression chips on the graphics card (few other players do this). That offloads the decompression step from the CPU. I don't know if PowerDVD will play ripped Blu-ray or other HD files the same way.

In the following review:

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2977&p=4

they use a CPU that is probaly close in power to yours. Playing h.264 encoded 1080p video requires over 90 percent of CPU time in many cases. At that high CPU usage the video will often stutter. There have been reports here of this problem with CPUs similar to yours.