USB 2.0 or Firewire?

[Xylob the Destroyer]

My new HTPC case is small as all hell and I've had to sacrifice a DVD drive....

I'm gonna get a drive enclosure, but I'm not sure which way to go. I had always thought that Firewire was faster than USB, but some of the specs I'm seeing are conflicting.

What is going to give me the best data transfer rate for ripping from a DVD-ROM -- USB2.0 or Firewire?
Ripping from a DVD-ROM. This not a burner.

Also, can anybody recommend a good 5.25" drive enclosure? Apparently I'll have to get it online, as none of the local big-box stores carry 5.25" drive enclosures...

TIA!!

[yoda313]

I have a 160gb western digital usb 2 external hard drive and love it. Great for extra room and high gig transfers between pcs (wifi G is great but multigig takes a bit of time to wifi it over - this is pretty fast for uploading gigs from one computer to another).

Though I guess one positive for firewire would be independence - if you have quite a few active usb devices on your computer your bandwidth is limited. My impression of firewire is it is a direct link not shared - unless your uploading footage from a dv camera I guess.

Anyway yeah I would suspect its mostly personal preference whether or not you choose usb or firewire. (also try newegg or tigerdirect for enclosures ).

[waheed]

Burst speed for USB 2.0 is 480Mbps
Burst sped for Firewire is 400Mbps

These are maximum speeds not usually and not attainable speeds you will reach. Operatable speeds are usually much lower.

However, in practice, in my opinion, ive always found firewire to be faster than USB 2.0

Most enclosures come with both USB 2.0 and Firewire so it gives you a choice of using either one.

[SCDVD]

It takes more processor overhead to service USB I/O than when using Firewire. As a result, Firewire is generally faster even though the burst rate for USB is higher.

[bevills1]

Although the max speed is faster for USB 2.0, firewire is faster in actual tests according to a CallForHelp show I saw before it was dropped by G4 TV. This is because firewire communicates with the system in a more efficient manner than USB 2.0 does. However, differences are quite small and would be negligible for most applications. USB 2.0 is more widely available and usually costs less as well.

[oldandinthe way]

And based on my personal empirical experience, fireware interfaces and cables are returned as defective to big box stores at about 3x the numbers as USB components. And are completely operational.

Firewire has more compatibility problems due to differing vendors implementations.

[budz]

In my experience FIREWIRE has the least amount of compatibility issues when you compare it to USB. For me FIREWIRE is much faster when doing video work and transfering files. I have 3 firewire enclosures that work fine where as I have 2 USB that give me issues. I have to make sure the USB enclosures are not powered on when I boot up any of my computers. If they're on the computers want to bootup to that enclosure which I then have to change the boot order in the BIOS. No problems when I have the FIREWIRE enclosures powered on. Just my 2 cents.

Not all external enclosures are compatible with dvd burners. What brand is your dvd burner? External enclosures have different chipsets which sometimes will work with only certain brands of dvd burners. For instance enclosures with the PROLIFIC chipset work well w/BENQ drives. Checkout Dealsonic.com for external enclosures.

[edDV]

For PVR machine I use firewire for video I/O and USB2 or eSATA for external drives. This keeps everything separate.

You may have problems capturing video and writing a DVD at the same time using just firewire.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

It's not a burner that I want to use in an enclosure.
DVD-ROM only.

[hgh]

Neither go with eSATA 300/3 gigabits per second, if you can.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

what is eSATA? I don't think my mobo supports that.
It has 2 SATA channels, but if I enable them, it disables the IDE (I think?)

[edDV]

eSATA card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815123016

Otherwise USB2 is plenty fast for PVR use.

[SatStorm]

Use Firewire when you can, that's my rule...

For e-sata it's too early

[edDV]

Use Firewire when you can, that's my rule...

For e-sata it's too early

But have you ever noticed that plugging in a Firewire device may interfere with another device or give unpredictable source destination assignnment? Normally the first device establishes the source of video flows and the rest become desitnations but not always.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

I think I'm going to just adhere some of those rubber electonics "feet" onto the bottom of the DVD-ROM drive and make a slight mod to my case to run an IDE cable externally....
I've got plenty of IDE channels, there's just no room in the case for more drives.
My PSU has 1 standard optical/magnetic molex 12v power jack on the back of it, so......

[edDV]

Why do that? External EIDE is a kludge.

USB2 enclosures are $20-35 with power supply.

For an HTPC, USB2 will be plenty fast enough. It will run slower ~20-30MB/s vs. 30-55MB/s but fast enough for any HTPC needs.

If you are capturing uncompressed or huffyuv, eSATA is the way to go.

The choice of hardware really comes down to what you want the PC to do.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

Why do that? External EIDE is a kludge.

USB2 enclosures are $20-35 with power supply...

a 12" drive power extension is $8.00

...The choice of hardware really comes down to what you want the PC to do.

rip DVD's to hard drive...
my burner kicks ass as a burner, but takes FOREVER to rip.
no room in the new case for both DVD drives, so the burner got the 'preferential' spot.

[vhelp]

Xylob,

What you might want to do first, is test your current hdd/writer speeds
with a (hopefuly) simple and non-bloatware freeware tool. I don't know
of any off the top of my head, but maybe someone else here, does.. and
can point a DOWNLOAD link to it.

Then, based off the reading of the report, I would verify weather or not
your current system is suppose to be producing the results reported.
It could be that the report is insuficient and would be a good indication
that your current system is running slugishly. If this is so, then at
least you know that you've been running a flugish system for a while now,
and you can change this and re-run the speed test.

In any event, after having concluded what your current system is capable
of, you can now go further in your decision.

If you go with an external enclosure, then set it up and run the speed
test on it. See if you get the same results with the external enclosure.
If you do, then you are set. But if you don't, then you know the given
external enclosure is not up to snuff. However, that will depend on
*which* format you choose in that test.. Firewire or USB.

My huntch is that USB will be the winner. In that case, I would suggest
an USB option. For external enclosure equipment, its best to use a
powered USB hub. I have one. Its a Firewire and USB in one. It works
great.

In fact, I've run a few of my own tests using capturing as the tool.
Using my IDE drive and connecting it to an external enclosure and
connected to an powered HUB, I was able to capture in AVI (huffy) to the
(IDE) external enclosure and capture via Hardware MPEG to another but
separate external drive (not an enclosure) all without a single frame
drop. So, this is possible. But it all depends on how you have your
equipment setup in concert with each other. Testing first is the best
move to start with, then go from there. You need a guage to start with
in order to reach a certain goal.

So, find a speed measure tool and test each of your hdds and move on
to the next steps.

** verify that you are already obtaining a *known* highest score for your sys
** Speed test your HDD's
** verify your OS and drivers are in top (highly tuned) condition
** Speed test on the external drives/enclosures you want to consider
** verify you meat the highest level possible
** if you meed these levels, you are in business, else debug what is wrong
** or, look elsewhere for another solution

-vhelp 4249

[SatStorm]

@edDV: I have far more problems with the USB connections myself! What you mention it might turn to an issue when you use low entry build in firewire ports on cheap mobos. Or maybe I'm just lucky and never had a problem myself.

[stiltman]

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=234767

I ran a little test of transfering files between my internal HDD and my external HDDs. Does this look OK to you guys?

Testing with 1 folder containing 11 files @ 1,243mb total

USB2 HDD = 56seconds = 22mb/sec
Firewire HDD = 46seconds = 27mb/sec

[bevills1]

Using external USB 2.0 DVD burner I can tell little or no difference on rip and burn times compared to internal burners on 2 different systems, and I've experienced none of the problems posted by budz. However, I did read in another thread where a user was having problems with USB 2.0 which also stated firewire had fewer compatibility issues. Personally I'd go USB 2.0 as long as there are no issues and would go with firewire if issues are encountered.

[edDV]

@edDV: I have far more problems with the USB connections myself! What you mention it might turn to an issue when you use low entry build in firewire ports on cheap mobos. Or maybe I'm just lucky and never had a problem myself.

There isn't a problem using one device over firewire. I said if you are using firewire for DVD buring and trying to import video at the same time there may be unpredictable results. My HTPC (PVR) system is often capturing over IEEE-1394 and/or tuner while at the same time burning DVD discs. My burner is on EIDE separate from capture paths.

As for hard drives, typical performance I'm seeing here (7200rpm Maxtor/WD/Seagate drives).

USB2 ..........18-30MB/s (144-240Mb/s) sustained 28MB/s nominal, moderate CPU load
IEEE-1394 ...28-35MB/s (224-280Mb/s) sustained 34MB/s nominal, low CPU load
PATA/SATA ..33-60MB/s (264-480Mb/s) sustained 55MB/s nominal, minimal CPU load
WD Raptor ...55-90MB/s (440-720Mb/s) sustained 70MB/s nominal, minimal CPU load

Sustained rate differs across the drive from inner to outer edge.

Computer to computer file transfers over a Gigabit network run around 250-480Mb/s but requires high CPU support at both ends. A P4 2.4GHz CPU is near maxed for a 480Mb/s Gigabit ethernet transfer.