removing commercials from DVD's

[ispy]

Hi All ,

This is my first posting (New Memeber), so Please, Go easy... as I am not sure whether this is where I am supposed to post this question?

Anyway here's my question?:

I have just upgraded my SKY package (to FULL) & my TV (32" Philips), DVD recorder (Medion MD 80857 with 160Gig HDD from Aldi), KISS (DIVX DVD player), Video recorder (Sony) are networked throughout the house using a signal booster/Splitter to various TV's around the house 4way.

What I am attempting to do, is copy a TV show or film to a re-writable DVD (or copy the show or film to the HDD of the Medion 80857) then copy it to a re-writable DVD disc. I then transfer the re-writable DVD to my PC DVD Writer, copy the files to the HDD (of the PC), then edit out the commercials. The software that I have tried this far is VideoRedo & Womble DVD wizard which seem to do the job but in the copying process from the Re-writable DVD to the HDD the overall size of the subject matter grows from say 4.7Gig (DVD) to 6.8Gig (HDD). I have even tried running it through DVD Dycrypter (Even though there is no copy protection involved!) to see if a "like for like", same size copy, is produced but to no avail! I've tried DVD Shrink, that just crashes & spits out error messages. I don't want to recompress the subject matter in case I lose the quality.

The other strange thing I have noticed is the layout of the files on the DVD they are laid out as follows (Which seems a bit strange to me!):

Two folders VIDEO_TS & VIDEO_RM are created.
The VIDEO_TS folder contains the usual VIDEO_TS, VIDEO_TS.BUP, VIDEO_TS.IFO VTS_01_1.VOB to VTS_01_5.VOB's then VTS_02_0.IFO VTS_02_0.BUP VTS_02_1.VOB to VTS_02_5.VOB's.

The VIDEO_RM folder contains: SONATA.IFO, SONATA_DEBUG.IFO, VIDEO_RM.DAT, VIDEO_RM.BUP VIDEO_RM.IFO.

This layout seems strange to me! Anyway the only other thing that I set with DVD Recorder (80857 Aldi) is the reccord quality & on my 80857 it is as follows:
HQ (High Quality) = 60Mins on DVD disc
LP (Long Play) = 120Mins on DVD disc
EP (Extended Play) = 240Mins on DVD disc
SLP (Super Long Play) = 360Mins on DVD disc
I generally tailor the length of the show/movie to suit the best quality recording that I can for the DVD disc.

Has anyone got any constructive advise as to how I retain the the size content & quality of the DVD re-writable (When copying from the DVD re-writable disc to the HDD) & the best way of using VideoRedo or Womble Wizard DVD when the subject matter is copied across. Also which in your opinion is the best editing software to use as a novice?

By the way, Please accept my appologies for the length of the posting!

Regards

Dave

[guns1inger]

DVD Decrypter to copy the video to the HDD, VOB2MPG to extract the mpg video/audio program stream, and Womble Mpeg Wizard to edit out the commercials. I must admit to not having used Video Redo, but it is also well recommended. I do use Womble to edit out commercials from digital broadcast program streams and it is very fast and easy to use.

[daamon]

Hi ispy,

Welcome to the forums.

I have a DVD recorder, and it has two modes: VR and Video. "VR" is Video Recorder and records to VRO files on the disc, whereas Video mode records to VOB files.

I've recorded to Video mode (VOB files) and lifted those straight off the disk to PC as a straight copy and paste. I've then edited these (took out commercials and unwanted stuff) using Mpeg Video Wizard DVD from the Womble stable - they worked on the VOBs, no need for extracting MPGs.

As its a straight copy, I've not experienced any increas in filesize - that would suggest some kind of processing as opposed to a straight copy.

I can't comment on the various SONATA files as my DVD recorder is a different make to yours.

[ispy]

Hi Guns1inger & Daamon,

Thanks for you prompt replies, much appreciated! I must be doing something wrong with DVD Decrypter then Cuz the overall copied content is way bigger than the info on the DVD. Guns1inger? Are you using any unusual settings when setting up DVD Decrypter? I have also done the straight copy and paste method but for some reason properties identifies the copied files as larger overall.

Unfortunately the Medion/Tevion DVD recorder is kinda basic in its functions so it won't let ya edit the commercials out at source (Well in the case of copying to the HDD on the Recorder that is).

I must confess that I am not familair with VOB2MPG but will research that further, pardon the ignorance but what does it do? As processing what would you suggest to undertake function?

Regards,

Dave

[guns1inger]

VOB2MPG extracts the mpeg program stream (video and audio) from the VOBs to a single .mpg file. It is easier to work with this way.

In what way - bigger ?

I actually grab my broadcasts live to the HDD, so copying from DVD isn't an issue. That said, using DVD Decrypter, or just dragging the files across to the HDD in Windows Explorer, should not significantly alter the file size.

[ispy]

Hi Guns1inger,

Kewl call name by the way!

Yes I agree with you thats why after using the explorer way of copying if you can call it that I decided to try using DVD Decrypter. I must confess I've never had this before. If I right click on the drive with the DVD in the bay flag up properties it states it is 4.37 Gig. After copying to the hard Drive via explorer or DVD Decypter (Which is not really needed) it reports 6.33Gig. that is in this case "Waterworld" with Adverts etc

It doen't make sense to me, because there are no other files generated once the material is copied? However I will say this in the case of DVD Decrypter I manually created the VIDEO_TS & AUDIO_TS files & pointed DVD Decrypter to encode the dvd content to the VIDEO_TS folder which it has complied with.

Daamon's comment quote, "As its a straight copy, I've not experienced any increas in filesize - that would suggest some kind of processing as opposed to a straight copy."

What does he mean by the above processing?

Regards,

Dave

[daamon]

Daamon's comment quote, "As its a straight copy, I've not experienced any increas in filesize - that would suggest some kind of processing as opposed to a straight copy."

What does he mean by the above processing?

I may have been having a moment of madness and not fully taken in what you said. A change in filesize can be caused by re-encoding during the transfer - this would be what I meant by "processing". However, if you're doing a straight copy & paste or using DVDDecrypter, then there's no chance of any processing occurring.

That leaves me as puzzled as you are about why the file sizes are getting bigger. Weird.

[fatbloke88]

I get a similar thing when i open a disk in TMPGEnc dvd author from my Lite on 5055,when you import the files from the dvd into dvd author and check through it looks like you have two copys of the same file but one includes the menu(hence double the size of the file).I just select the file without the menu and then delete the rest from my project,then edit and burn to dvd.
hope this helps

[theewizard]

I just copy the files from the video_ts folder to my HD

and work from those files,

I totaly ignore the video_rm folder and those files

[ispy]

Hi Fatbloke88 + Theewizard + daamon,

Many Thanks for your input into my little problem!

Yes the VIDEO_RM & the increased file size threw me to start with however I think there is a great deal of truth in what Fatbloke88 & Theewizard are saying. The reason I am saying this is I have had a moment of madness & have dived in disregarding the the increased file sizing & with fingers crossed I may Have got it "Partially Licked" (says he with a certain amount of intrepidation).

Heres what I did (would be interested in your comments Guys Albeit this process is a bit long winded):

Firstly & most importantly I heeded the advise from daamon & Guns1inger.

1) Set Up 4 Folders on me HDD called WW1 WW2 WW3 & WW4 (Just abreviations for test project Water World Movie!)
2) Copied the info content of the DVD re-writable (Previously made) to the WW1 folder with 2No sub folders called VIDEO_TS & AUDIO_TS I instructed DVD Decrypter to copy/encode the files to VIDEO_TS Folder this effectively ignores the VIDEO_RM folder generated by My DVD Recorder.
3) Installed & used VOB2MPG as Guns1inger pointed out Quote, "VOB2MPG extracts the mpeg program stream (video and audio) from the VOBs to a single .mpg file. It is easier to work with this way" (I pointed VOB2MPG to process the files into folder WW2).
4) Here is where I deviate a little, instead of using Womble Video Wizard I decided to use VideoRedo, (Not that VideoRedo is any better Than Womble but to me VideoRedo has an easier interface for novices like me). I cut the adverts out from the .MPG files created in WW2 & saved the resultant files generated to WW3 folder.
5) So my next problem was convert the .MPG files back to Vob's Ifo's etc so I grabbed a copy of Cucusoft AVI/MPEG to DVD/VCD/SVCD/MPEG Convertor V7.07 to convert .MPG to VOB's etc & processed these files to WW4 folder. Cucusoft will allow you to directly burn the generated files To a DVD if you so wish.
6) However I used Slysoft Clone DVD to do the dirty work of burning the TEST DVD.

The results are as follows (By the way I used the default settings within the programs illustrated above where possible). The picture quality seems reasonably good but seems to "STUTTER" now & again & seems slightly Blurred, if that is the right term to use. The aspect ratio of the movie seems to be amended slightly with a black bar at the top & bottom of the screen. am I losing quality when converting the .MPG files to VOB's etc.

Anyway Many Thanks to "ALL" who have contributed so far, I might even write a basic How to once I iron out all the wrinkles, LOL For novices Like me. It is a long winded way in a sense & I wouldn't go through this process for Every TV Show or Movie but it does seem feasible for the Good Stuff!

Many Thanks ALL

Regards,

Dave

[daamon]

Heres what I did ... albeit this process is a bit long winded

I wouldn't say it's long winded. I'd say it's a logical and methodical approach.

Though you might be able to shorten it a little: I've used Mpeg Video Wizard DVD with VOBs, so VideoRedo may accept them too - thus removing the need to use VOB2MP@ to extract the MPGs.

am I losing quality when converting the .MPG files to VOB's etc.

No. Authoring is a way of bundling everything together, which is then just stored in the VOB files. A bit like tidying your room and putting everything into one or more boxes.

The "everything" is the video, audio, subtitles, menus, chapter points etc. - there's no processing and so no way to lose quality.

The picture quality seems reasonably good but seems to "STUTTER" now & again & seems slightly Blurred, if that is the right term to use. The aspect ratio of the movie seems to be amended slightly with a black bar at the top & bottom of the screen.

To my mind, the only possible place where the changes you notice could be made is during your use of VideoRedo - picture quality, blur and aspect ratio.

The "stutter' may be due to a bad disc or generally poor discs (poor brand), or is it occurring where the commercials used to be?

[Abond]

Cucusoft reencoded your files - that is where the quality hit come from. You beter use an authoring program to "repack" the mpegs in vobs - no conversion is needed.

[ispy]

Hi Abond & Hi again Daamon ,

Firstly in reponse to you guys many thanks for the replies.

Point taken Abond , Ignorance on my part I didn't know how to get from a file extension .MPG to the original Vob Ifo Bup files, so re-encoding will lose quality. I will have to see if there is anything, or shall we say a way in which VideoRedo/Womble MVWD will accomplish this I'm a bit of a greenhorn at this?

Yes I think you are right, a little more research into using VideoRedo seems to indicate that the Vob2mpg stage can be left out or as you quite rightly point out MPEG Video wizard DVD could be used instead. The Bad Media reason for the stutter or "juddering" on the film is not pronounced but it doesn't occur where the commercials used to be it seems to be generalised. You could be write it may have been a poor DVD disc but in the past I have had very good results with the DVD's in connection with Media burning etc, its a one off.

I think what I will do is skip the vob2mpg stage use VideoRedo & Womble as a sort of test & as Abond has pointed out Re-author the .mpg files to vobs to see the comparison between the two software products. It may be the case that I will need to use a combination of the two, dependant the features that both software products have to "re-pack" the .mpg file to vob's etc.

This will take a little time & as of tommorrow my wife & I are taking a trip to Barcelona for 6 days for a short holiday break (From 20/03/07 to 26/03/07). So Please don't think I am being rude or un-responsive in the interim period, its just I won't be here, sorry! However, without you guys & your excellant advice I wouldn't have got this far, Many Thanks, "RESPECT"!!!

Regards,

Dave

[daamon]

Cucusoft reencoded your files - that is where the quality hit come from. You beter use an authoring program to "repack" the mpegs in vobs - no conversion is needed.

Good spot - I missed that one.

I think what I will do is skip the vob2mpg stage use VideoRedo & Womble as a sort of test & as Abond has pointed out Re-author the .mpg files to vobs to see the comparison between the two software products. It may be the case that I will need to use a combination of the two, dependant the features that both software products have to "re-pack" the .mpg file to vob's etc.

MPEG Video wizard DVD has its own DVD authoring function (what you need) - known as "DVD Maker", though I've never used it - but I don't think it re-encodes... I don't know VideoRedo so can't comment. If you don't like MPEG Video wizard DVD, there are free authoring apps out there. Take a look in the "Tools" section, "Authoring (DVD)" category. DVDAuthorGUI or GUI for dvdauthor are regularly recommended.

Enjoy your trip to Barcelona!!!

[ispy]

Hi Daamon just a Quickie - Sorry Couldn't resist,

Thanks for the advice regarding the freeware DVD authoring tools, I have downloaded both & briefly looked at the help guides, Gui for DVDAuthor scores 9.2 in the comments section with 11 votes total. It seems to require VBRUN60SP6 & I downloaded the Beginners package.

In contrast DVDAuthorGui, I selected the installer version but requires additions like Dscaler5008.exe, Directshow Filter Manager & BatchDemux 0.14 (not sure if these are required to do what I want but downloaded them anyway). I have acquired the guide also. This software scores 8.7 with 27 votes.

I think I will opt for the Gui for DVDAuthor 1st & see how I get on with on with it on my return from hols.

Another interesting bit of software I came across whilst within the tools section is "Cuttermaran", also freeware but apparently needs TMPGEnc for frame accurate cutting/editing. Also it seems that it requires other additional tools/encoders etc. Has anyone tried it & what is your opinion of it?

Anyway the packing & the airport are the highest priority right now, will touch base on return from my hols. Much appreciated Daamon!

Regards,

Dave

[daamon]

Hi ispy,

If your Mrs had a go at you coz the packing wasn't done on time... don't point her at me!

I've never used either of GUI for DVD Author, DVD Author GUI or cuttermaran - though I have seen all three regularly recommended and so they can't be bad...

But there are plenty of people here who should be able to comment, just hope they read this thread!

Hope you enjoy(ed) your hols!

[Abond]

Cuttermaran can use also QuEnc (free encoder) for frame accurate cut. I am using it to cut out commercials in TV recordings. It can also merge clips. As Cuttermaran need elementary streams to work on, before that I am using ReJig to demultiplex the files to video and audio.
I am using often GFD when I need to make menu. Otherwise I am using Muxman.

[ispy]

Hi All I'm Back ,

Barcelona was a kewl holiday destination, well worth a visit if anyone wants a a good place to visit & we found the natives on the whole were friendly! The Mizzus was a bit grouchy about the packing Hey you are quite safe, Daamon she was 2 pre-occupied with packing LOL!!!

Thanks for the postings guys, I will install Gui for DVDAuthor & give it a go seems to have a slight edge.

Thanks Abond re the comments on Cuttermaran & the encoder, QuEnc! Is it easy to setup, I particularly like the comments in respect of the "frame accurate" cutting. Can you possibly elaborate a bit more on how you setup Cuttermaran with QuEnc & there relationship to Rejig GFD & Muxman you seemed to have walked this path before, your further comments would be appreciated!

Well in the intersts of keeping it short I will sign off for now, Great help!

Regards,

Dave

[bizzybody]

The bigger size and impossible amount of data on the disc is due to the DVD recorder creating two different sets of VOB filenames in the TOC (Table Of Contents). Why do some standalone recorders do that? I've no idea.