Unusual Ripping Problem

[golfnut]

Merry Christmas to all.

I am having an unusual ripping problem that I hope someone may be able to help me with. Every time I rip one of my DVDs to my hard drive I have to defrag prior to burning. I check my hard drive prior to ripping, my computer tells me you do not have to defrag. After ripping I check again, and it tells me I have to defrag. I finally narrowed my problem with making coasters down to this. How I can I fix this problem. This happens no matter what ripping problem I use, ripit4me, dvd decrypter, etc. This is really screws up my automated process of ripping and burning using ripit4me and imgburn programs. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[redwudz]

The first thing I would suggest is a second hard drive, if you have only one. If the drive you are using is mostly full, that could also cause fragmentation. That seems a unusual problem, though. I rarely defrag my drives and haven't seen a similar problem. Your defrag program may just be over reacting. XP with NTFS drives doesn't need that much defragging and excessive defragging may wear out your hard drive prematurely. Just my opinion on that.

But, as mentioned, a second hard drive just for video or editing would likely help.

[golfnut]

redwudz thank you for the reply. Drive is 160G with 132G free so space is no problem. Don't think the frag program is over reacting because when I defrag I can burn with no problem, its just that I have to refrag every time I rip. ????????????????????? Help please???????????? Thank you.

PS - Using xp - NTFS

[oldandinthe way]

Look at the analysis by the defrag program. It should tell you the status of your disk and why it has to defefrag. It is possible that you have inconveniently placed unmovable files and a reload of the disk may be in order.

[winifreid]

I would also check to see if your drives are set to dma.

[free is better]

if you insist on using one drive partition it so that one partition is 20 gig and use for the os only. this should solve the fragmenting affecting computer performance.

[golfnut]

Thanks everyone for the advise. Drives are set to DMA so don't think thats the problem. Just checked it again and it did it again right after ripping a DVD to hard drive. I give up, guess I will just have to defrag every time after ripping and prior to shrink and burn. I really do appreciate those who are trying to help.

[Capmaster]

What everyone with Windows should be doing is setting your swapfile min and max to the same size. Otherwise Windows dynamically adjusts the size of it from time to time as available physical memory fluctuates, and it turns your hard disk into a fragmented mess.

It's easy:

Control Panel>System>Advanced>Performance>Advanced>Virtual Memory "Change">Custom Size

Set it to a large enough number, like "8192" for both min. and max.

That locks the size and prevents Windows from constantly dicking with it.

[golfnut]

capmaster thank you for the advice. I tried what you suggested, I changed the min/max to the same number, 4576 which is as high as my computer would allow me to go. Here's what happend. I defraged my hard drive prior to ripping a dvd. After the dvd ripped I checked the hard drive and got the message "you should defrag this drive". I give up, I do not think there is a fix for this problem for whatever reason, maybe the hard drive is bad, but I have no problems with it other than this problem. Thank you once again for trying to help.

[Capmaster]

capmaster thank you for the advice. I tried what you suggested, I changed the min/max to the same number, 4576 which is as high as my computer would allow me to go. Here's what happend. I defraged my hard drive prior to ripping a dvd. After the dvd ripped I checked the hard drive and got the message "you should defrag this drive". I give up, I do not think there is a fix for this problem for whatever reason, maybe the hard drive is bad, but I have no problems with it other than this problem. Thank you once again for trying to help.

You're welcome

The problem likely isn't your HD, it's probably the trigger for the message that tells you that it needs defragging. I never trust little "features" that make decisions for me ...

It sounds like your HD is fine, but you've got a problem with an annoying little message

[golfnut]

capmaster thank you for the reply. You are probably right but if that is true then why would my burned dvd have errors if I do not defrag just prior to burning. If I defrag just prior to burning and after ripping then the back up is fine, if I do not defrag just prior to burning then I get errors on my burned dvd. Go figure, darnest thing I have ever seen. I think I am just going to buy me a second hard drive just for burning. I know of no other solution at this point and I think everyone on this forum, you included, have tried to help me as much as possible. Happy New Year to you and all, be safe and be careful.
Golfnut

[oldandinthe way]

Look at the analysis by the defrag program. And the map of the drive!!!!

If necessary post a screenshot here!

By the way are use using the Windows Defrag or one of the bizaree defrags like Norton or Diskeeper. They have a different concept of when you need to defrag and arrange your disk strangely.

[golfnut]

oldandinthe way thank you for the info. How do I map the drive? I saved the defrag analysis to a file in my documents but can't get a screen shot to work here. Unfortunately I am not a computer guru. Would you like for me to email the file to you? I at least think I can do that if you could send me your email address. Thank you.
Golfnut



defrag.txt

[golfnut]

Lets try the screenshot one more time. See below, maybe it will work this time.

[jman98]

golfnut - Are you using Diskeeper by any chance? I have never used this before until I found it on my work PC at my new job, but I can tell you that Diskeeper is unusually paranoid and it tends to complain about "fragmentation" more than it should. I'm not convinced that there is a real need for a commercial product to defragment hard drives when Windows comes with a perfectly good defragmentation tool. I would also advise you to consider the old statement "If someone told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?" Trust me when I tell you that you do NOT have to defrag just because some stupid program told you to do it and your rips will somehow still magically burn even though your defrag program has warned you of certain death should you ignore it. Hard drives do go bad, but it sounds to me like your defrag program is not well behaved.

[golfnut]

jman 8 I am using the disc defrag program that is built into the windows xp (home) program. I do not have an aftermarket program at all. If what you say is true then why do my burns have errors if I do not defrag just prior to burning, but if I do defrag just prior to burning then they come out fine? This is what I do not understand. Hope this answers your question and thank you for taking time to try and help.

[arcorob]

Hi Guys,

Haven't been around in a while but this intrigued me. It SOUNDS like you have a drive keeper software program running that has run amok or windows install is simpl a mess , probably due to restore fragmentation and such. Listen to his problem gents.

He defrags successfully. When he rips (regardless of what program) it fragments the files BY ITSELF so that when he goes to burn, he has issues (which is another porblem altogetheer because fragmented files shoudl not cause burn issues but more on taht in a sec).

In a normal disk/windows environment, files are written to available space. Unfortunately, if there are available free spaces smaller than the file being written, instead of finding one large contiguous space, windows will use up those smaller fragments firs. So for example
if he has a 1 gig file to write and has
50 meg free
50 meg free
100 meg free
10 meg free
150 gig free

It will write the 210 meg to the fragment chunks before writing to the larger free space. Now windows C: drive gets fragmented constantly because of things such as cookies, temp internet files, temp files, page/swap files, etc. But those spaces shoudl not be enough to cause the issues he is finding. And if you are defragged, immediately writing after the defrag shoudl not cause this issue.

I recommend you do as suggested. Get a product like PARTITION MAGIC. If you have a 160 gig C; drive, re-partition (this is non destructive so dont panic) using partition magic and give the system drive C; about 40 gig and the rest to the new partition.

An even better option is a 50 dollar hard drive as a second drive. You wil eliminate thrashing (reading and writing to the same drive) and get a great perfomance boost.

On your burn issue, check the status of your drive there and make sue it has not stepped down to PIO mode. if you get a certain number of bad device accesses to the drive, the drive will STEP DOWN in modes and be stuck there

here is the ms article
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/317962

and to fix it (if that is the case) go into device manager and delete the controller (secondary IDE ) for the DVD drive. Yes, I said delete it. When you reboot, windows automatically detects the controller and resets. You should now be able to reset to DMA mode if it does not do it already.

Hope this long reply helps...

[golfnut]

arcorob thank you for such a detailed and long reply, I really appreciate the time you took to try and help. I checked both primary and secondary IDE settings and both are set to DMA and not PIO, so that must not be the problem. I hear what you are saying about fragmented files should not cause bad burns but it sure looks like it is in my case because defragging after a rip is the only way I can get good burns, trust me I have made enough coasters lately to know. This defrag problem after ripping has not always been a problem, only recently. I know of no new install, either hardware or software that would have caused this problem to start. I am definitely going to buy a second drive. Any suggestions on best place for best price? Thank you again for taking such a long time to try and help with such a WEIRD PROBLEM. Happy New Year to all.
Golfnut

[oldandinthe way]

I don't understand why you have 31% file fragmentation on a 91% free space disk. What is the application which is generating all of those local settings files? (The screen shot cuts off the info at the right.)

[Capmaster]

capmaster thank you for the reply. You are probably right but if that is true then why would my burned dvd have errors if I do not defrag just prior to burning. If I defrag just prior to burning and after ripping then the back up is fine, if I do not defrag just prior to burning then I get errors on my burned dvd. Go figure, darnest thing I have ever seen. I think I am just going to buy me a second hard drive just for burning. I know of no other solution at this point and I think everyone on this forum, you included, have tried to help me as much as possible. Happy New Year to you and all, be safe and be careful.
Golfnut

It is odd that defragging affects the burned disc like that. All modern burners will halt burning if the buffer empties, and resume once it's full again unlike the older ones that just ruined the disc. So if your burner has underrun protection, the condition of your hard disk shouldn't matter ...it'll just take longer to burn, but should play fine.

Do you somehow have buffer underrun protection turned off? Check it by looking at the selected recorder properties in your burning app. In Nero, it s located at RECORDER>CHOOSE RECORDER.

[golfnut]

capmaster I use imgburn for burning, do you happen to know how I check to see if underrun protection is on in this program? Thank you for your reply.

[golfnut]

oldandintheway here is a new screen shot, hopefully better. Looks like most of the applications are created by mozilla firefox.

defrag3.txt

[golfnut]

lets try that screen shot again

defrag3.txt

[Capmaster]

capmaster I use imgburn for burning, do you happen to know how I check to see if underrun protection is on in this program? Thank you for your reply.

Nope, sorry. That's one app I haven't tried yet.

But I would think that if there is no place to turn it off, it's probably on by default

[arcorob]

Hello again,

Newegg has about 180 + hard drives of varying sizes and cost.

http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/SubCategory.asp?SubCategory=14&name=Internal-Hard-Drives

That will solve one problem...But something else is really going on there. Personally (though some dont like it) I use Symantec (Nortons ) disk program to defrag and keep things in shape.

In your case though, the fragmentation you are seeing is not major. It is basically internet fragments (I just did a quick perusal of the file) and should in no way cause errors. The percentage of fragmentation is way off too. How does 11 meg fragmented constitute 31% ? Hmm..

Anyway, you definately have an issue with 1) Fragmentation - your 4K blocks do not help

2) Burning should never stop - i have a feeling imgbrn does not properly handle buffering..

Try another burn program if possible..sorry I could not be more help..I did a number of googles on this and file fragmentation problems is like searching for WINDOWS ...the hits just keep on coming...LOL

Good luck

[golfnut]

arcorob thank you once again. I will heed your advice and try a new burning problem, any suggestions? What do you think of Clonedvd for just burning? Burning suggestions welcome. Happy New Year.
Golfnut

[Jim44]

There are 24 burning apps listed in the "Tools" section, in the "Burn" category. You can even sort by rating. That would be a place to start.

FWIW, I use ImgBurn.

Jim

[golfnut]

jim44 thank you for your suggestion. I too have been using imgburn but due to arcorob's suggestion that I may try a different burning app that is why I ask for suggestions. I realize there are 24 burning apps listed under tools but I was trying to find out from others which one or two that they thought was best. I do appreciate the response and the info though. Have a great day.

[Jim44]

I don't know what he means by "does not handle buffering properly" - the only issue I ever had with it was when the transfer mode got changed from "DMA" to "PIO". Otherwise it's been working flawlessly (I've been burning 2-4 DVDs a week for ~2 years with it).

Saw in another thread you're installing a second HD - that & ImgBurn should do the trick (I too have a 2nd HD exclusively for video - they're so cheap now, it just makes sense).

Good luck,
Jim

[golfnut]

Thanks Jim, I just burned another disc BEFORE defraging, got errors again. Degragged and it burned perfectly. Darnest thing I have EVER seen. Will install the second hard drive tomorrow to hopefully get rid of this crazy problem. Have a nice evening.
Golfnut