Pioneer DVR 640h-S anyone purchase this unit yet??

[rasslick]

good afternoon..... i have directv with dvr feature which i recieve in may the trouble is the box is corrupted it freezes up so i have to erase everthing i have recorded (mostly sports) to reset my box thats what tech support told me to reset the unit....anyway since i have a lot of vhs tape i figure i would buy a dvd recorder (i do'nt want the unit with vhs/dvr combo) then transfer what i have on my directv dvr & my tapes (i have vcr already)...so i was reading about this new Pioneer DVR 640h-S if anyone have read, or purchase or any opinions on it. i am not dead set on this unit but i need somethig with a hard drive if their is a cheaper unit that gets the job done please, give a name because i think this dvr cost almost $400.00 !!! if i am not mistaken....i have never own a dvdr before so any suggestion would help..thanks all!!

[tac7]

While the Pioneer 640 is an otherwise terrific DVD recorder, if your primary reason is to back up VHS tapes, you'll be disappointed. I have gone back to using my old LiteOn 5005 for VHS transfers since it blows the Pioneer away with a much better picture, particularly as far as less pixelation and better detail is concerned. I always thought of the LiteOn being on the soft side till I bought the Pioneer.
Even with all the Pioneer's input settings (black level, white level, hue, chroma, YNR, CNR...), it can't match the LiteOn's better picture, and to me exhibits an unacceptable amount of video noise on recordings made from video tapes, including too much pixelation in dark areas. This happens even when using the best (XP) quality settings.
On the other hand, the Pioneer is much better in the "true Color" department, which the LiteOn lacks (even with the firmware upgrades, there is still a slight greenish hue with the LiteOn). The Pioneer is also miles ahead when recording off the tuner.

From digital cable, recordings are good, with truer color, but noticeably softer (less detail) than with the LiteOn, regardless of the bitrate setting. If Pioneer were to use some of the LiteOn's filter technology (LSI chip?), you'd be close to getting a near perfect DVD recorder (all my own opinions of course)...

[trhouse]

I do not believe it is a matter of filtering. If you go this thread,

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=279460

and look at the resolution tests for the Pioneer 531H vs the Lite-On 5007, it is pretty obvious that the Lite-On scores well above average in the resolution department besting even other LSI chipset recorders.

[rasslick]

thanks guys ...i did not think the lite-on was a good dvd recorder...maybe because it cost less than the other brands...i think i might go with either a JVC,LITE-ON or a TOSHIBA.est cost of my budget is $200-$250 but i have to have a hard drive just because my directv dvr box will not let me recorder anymore & even if i get it fix i still need to have a backup just incase it stop recording again this is where the recorder with the HD will come in handy...so what can i get in that price range with an hd???..thanks

[ACPewty]

I own the 640 and I disagree about the recording quality from VHS. I wonder what cabling you used tac7? Also, you should have used the VCR video adjustment preset when recording from VHS. I (and many others at the AVS forum) have found dubs from VHS to be better than the original recording. I thought this to be impossible, but seeing is believing. Apparently with noise reduction, black level adjustment and frame synchronization the picture can be improved.

I tried dubbing with and without the VCR video adjustment preset, and I saw a definite improvement using the VCR preset. BTW, I was only using SP recording mode too.

Dubbing isn't the reason I bought my 640, but it is one of the reasons I recommend it. It is a great unit especially for satellite users as it doesn't have the finicky TVGOS which just gets in the way for satellite users. Instead, it has an excellent grid style "Easy Timer" for setting up timer events by selecting the start & stop time (rather than the program) from a grid. This is very fast and easy and eliminates date and am/pm errors. Much more reliable than TVGOS.

Lots of extra features: Picture Viewer, Music Jukebox etc but primarily, IMHO you can't beat Pioneer's pq, bitrate flexibility and ease of use especially for editing. (I bought 2) My only real gripe is regarding the naming of timer events described in this thread. Great unit, highly recommended.

[trhouse]

Lite-On's do have other issues which may or may not concern you. For example, they only record in dvd+vr mode and not dvd-video mode which remains more compatible with most players.

I too am perplexed that the Pioneer does so poorly at capturing VHS even though it does not have the resolution of other recorders, standard VHS is much lower in resolution. I would not expect the Pioneer to show much difference unless it is S-VHS which is closer to 400 lines vs standard VHS at about 250.

[Seeker47]

I too am perplexed that the Pioneer does so poorly at capturing VHS even though it does not have the resolution of other recorders, standard VHS is much lower in resolution. I would not expect the Pioneer to show much difference unless it is S-VHS which is closer to 400 lines vs standard VHS at about 250.

With one notable exception, which I'll get to in a moment, I found strikingly good results (almost interchangeable with the source, often as good, and in a few cases better) transferring material from B1s to dvd. I'm talking about PQ: sharpness & color fidelity. O.K., I think most people who know would agree that Beta 1 High Band is superior even to S-VHS. But I still don't understand how there could be that much of a difference between the quality of tape source and dvd result than you get in the case of VHS. (I made my xfers at MN32, but on the 520 model. I would hope the 640 does at least as good a job..)
Now, the big problem I had -- and still have not yet resolved -- was sudden speed jumps and what looked like missing frames on the DVDs. It was suggested to me that this was likely a sync problem. I tried a Sima CT-2, which did not correct this, and introduced color or light / dark variation anomalies of its own. So it was looking like I would need to step up to an AVT or Datavideo TBC, as the next possible cure. That is where things stand at the moment. However, I note that the transferred dvd "problem" is very evident on one standalone player I own (a Malata), but minimally detectable to not present at all on some other standalone players I've tried, like a Lite-On and a JVC. Exactly what this means, I still have no idea. I've asked about it here on VH a couple of times, but so far no one has stepped forward to enlighten me.

[tac7]

ACPewty:

I did use the"VCR" presets initially, and only after getting poor results I tried every other possible setting trying to improve the picture quality. I'm sure you are aware that by pressing "Display" on the remote, you can see the factory settings for "Tuner," "VCR," and "DTV / LDP" recordings, so for "VCR" the only difference is what amounts to noise reduction ATTEMPTS (25% YNR, and 25% CNR), which - in addition to reducing detail - does not improve, but rather worsen picture quality.

The LiteOn has no such adjustments but does a beautiful job in reducing video noise, while retaining a decent amount of detail, which can indeed make the copy look better than the original if it was LOW quality, but never if it was HIGH quality to begin with. Nevertheless, one tradeoff is still reduced video sharpness. BTW, I have experimented with S-Video and composite cables, a cheap 'black box' to help frame synchronization, and a full-frame TBC. Only when using an SVHS source (higher resolution) does the Pioneer exhibit similar results to those of the LiteOn, and in addition displays truer color fidelity.

Don't get me wrong -- I love the Pioneer 640 and its many great features, but I don't agree that the quality of VHS transfers is one of them.

[trhouse]

The x20 series Pioneers actually have better resolution than the newer 531H which is what I have. I have not tested the 640H. I have read that the x20 series has some kind of video drop out problem which the x30 series not appear to have.

Tac7,

I would have to agree. This is not just resolution. The Pioneer image seems to show signs of blocking in the circled areas which is typical of noise getting to the mpeg processor.

[hanugro]

I have the pioneer 640 and it records my VHS just fine. However I never compare result with other drives (I own SHarp DVR-300 as well but it record no NTSC).

[ACPewty]

Thanks for the example Tac7. I have never tried a lite-on but I will take your word for it if you think it does a better job than the 640.

Yes I've seen the VCR preset settings. I believe in addition another non-default setting is White AGC = On : White level 50%. (I believe I had to turn on White AGC in my preferred custom recording ideo adjustment settings, default = off.)

I will still say however that I have noticed a definite and considerable improvement in pq over the original when dubing to the 640 from VHS, and I am not alone. I have heard the same from other users on the AVS forum. It's certainly better than dubbing to another VHS!