I'm planning on backing up my old VHS tapes onto DVD so I bought myself a TV Tuner card (linked below) but I have no idea on how to convert to MPEG2 (the DVD standard video). I already have a DVD Rewriter (Benq DW1650) so burniing shouldn't be a problem.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004VU5G/qid=1149075249/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_xs_...004256-2166208
The software that it came with (SoftPVR) only converts to the uncompresssed AVI, DivX AVI or VCD MPEG1 formats. I really don't want to be wasting more encoding time by capturing in MPEG1 then using a program like TMPGEnc to convert to the MPEG2 format. I would really prefer to capture straight to the MPEG2 format.
I wanted to use around 1 Gb of space for each hour of TV capture (so that I could fit 4 hours of video onto 1 single layer DVD-R). Some VHS tapes will require a menu as they're TV episodes recorded from TV but some won't require a menu (i.e. play automatically). Chapters would also be nice.
So which software do I need to capture straight to the DVD MPEG2 format? And also, do I need any additional software for authoring and burning to DVD?
I've looked through various guides on this site but I can't seem to find any definitive answers to my questions.
Any and all replies will be much appreciated.
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1gb per hour at full resolution will look pretty poor. If 4 hours is the target, hald-d1 is the resolution for oyu.
Start by reading "What is DVD" - top left corner of this page. This iwll help you understand the basic constraints of the medium. At full D1 resolution, most would recommend 2 hours as a maximum for a single layer disc, and preferably no more than 90 minutes (two standard TV episodes).
You should then go to the guides section, starting with capturing, then converting, then authoring. Do it in stages. Don't tryo learn it all at once, or you will just get frustrated.
You have probably picked one of the harder areas to start with, so be patient. If you wanted to do VHS to DVD transfer the easy way, and DVD Recorder would have been a better solution.
You also do not want to be capturing direct to mpeg-2 if you intend to apply that much compression. It will require at least 2 pass VBR encoding, which cannot be done at capture time.Read my blog here.
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The quality doesn't matter at all. Most of the VHS tapes I've got are of poor quality anyway because they were recorded in Long Play (LP).
I heard in another forum that software like PowerProducer and Ulead Videostudio can capture from a TV card and encode straight to MPEG2 and author the video so that's it's ready to burn to DVD. Was I misinformed?
I mean, if this is true, then maybe I should go out and buy one of them. But this is why I've posted here. I just wanted somebody to confirm that there is software out there that does everything for you and all that's left to do is to burn the resulting project onto DVD. -
You may want to test Mainconcept PVR. They hava a demo version you can try to see if it works. I use it sometimes for real time captures directly to MPEG-2 at full DVD resolution but higher bitrates like 90 minutes per disc. The quality is OK but I hava a good CPU (AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+) so a slower CPU may need lower quality settings to be able to compress in real time. But with half-D1 resolution there is less work for the CPU so you may get good results also with a slow CPU. But I think with 1 GB per hour it may be better using CIF resolution (352x288 PAL or 352x240 NTSC) to avoid quality problems with real time capturing. The quality will be much lower than the originals but try it and see if you like it. This resolution is also DVD compatible, at least as MPEG-1 but MPEG-2 mostly works too.
Oh, you said you did not want MPEG-1 because you want to capture to DVD. You actually can use MPEG-1 with 352x288 or 352x240 resolution on DVD so it may still be an option for you to capture in MPEG-1 but not convert to MPEG-2. -
Yeah my WinTV software only encodes to MPEG1. Just now, I tried recording 1 hours worth of a VHS tape and I was left with a 600 Mb .mpeg file. According to my calculations, this should mean that if I burn the MPEG1 file as it is to DVD, a single layer DVD can hold around 7 hours (4370 Mb/600 Mb = 7.283 hours).
Is this correct?
How would I go about authoring and burning MPEG1 files onto a DVD? -
mpeg1 is not DVD spec..it has to be converted to MPEG2...352x480 is the resolution you will need at a bitrate of approx. 2500kbps. It will look bad.
One thing to understand about MPEG compression..the worse the video quality is, the MORE bitrate you need to compensate for it.
edit: Thanks Richard_G for pointing out my blunder..i listed the NTSC resolutions and not PAL. -
As you are in the UK you are using PAL, so the correct resolution for half-D1 is 352 x 576. For 4 hours on a DVD, you'll need a bitrate of around 3000kbs but you can go slightly higher if you use mp3 or, ideally ac3 audio at 224 kbs. These sort of settings will give you 4 hours per DVD with quality no worse than the original VHS footage.
For software you have 2 choices. For absolutely top quality it can be done using a number of different tools but, as the quality isn't great in the first place, an all in one will do the job perfectly OK. Try downloading the free trial of Ulead DVD Moviefactory from www.ulead.co.uk and give that a try. It will capture direct to mpeg2, allow you to create chapter points and menus and burn to disc. It's pretty simple to use too and if you find it does the job, is quite cheap to buy the full version. -
I really think that your best solution is to purchase a HW encoding capture device such as the Hauppauge family. I use the WinTV PVR-USB2 which encode directly to MPEG2. This makes DVD authoring a simple 1 step process using TMPGEnc DVD Author.
This is the process I have used on over 100 VHS tapes. -
Originally Posted by Richard_G
And in reply to jameshgross, the WinTV PVR range PCI cards just weren't in my price range. I heard that the PVR range of cards encode MPEG2 via the hardware and not the software. But then I thought, what's the point in buying a hardware encoder when I've already got a 2 Gig processor in my PC? I thought I might aswell make some use of it.
I also forgot to mention that I've already got TMPGEnc Plus installed. I realise that it's well capable of encoding to the DVD MPEG2 format. But the problem is that TMPGEnc Plus only outputs two files - a .m2v file (video) and a .wav file (audio). Is there an authoring program that I can get hold of that allows me to create an ISO from the .m2v and .wav files? -
Soneman,
The point is the the Hauppauge cards use their on board HW mpeg encoder, this relieves the PC cpu of this very computational intensive task. Even at 2.0 ghz I think you would hit 80-90% cpu usage. This leaves you open to frame dropping.
Try looking on ebay for a hauppauge card at reduced cost.
Believe me you will be more then pleased with the results. -
Something is wrong with your TMPGenc setup, it is perfectly capable of outputting an MP2 audio file, and with a plug-in, an AC-3 file.
There are issues regarding these audio types which may require some further research on your part.
MPG-1 IS DVD compatible, to correct an earlier statement.
You are starting on a project for which you are not fully prepared. If you enjoy an often frustrating challenge with no clear answers, where what looked like the perfect answer two days ago may be revealed to be an imperfect solution compared to yet another new method, then full steam ahead. With a lot of work and trial and error, excellent results can be produced.
A DVD recorder has fewer options and less control, but will produce reasonably good output with little work on your part. -
Your card doesn't have mpeg2 output so the only way to get mpeg2 is to re-encode the stream. Also you don't seem to have a lot of HD for what it sound. Do your self a favor and buy a DVR. You capture to dvd-rw and then edit it on your computer as you like. A lot easier.....
I want to believe.... -
Originally Posted by jameshgross
Whereas my price range is around £10-20 (P&P included), hence why I ended up buying my WInTV Go card off Ebay for £15.
Originally Posted by Nelson37
Two years ago, I posted something on this forum about DVD Recorders and whether they're worth buying because at the time, they started to drop down in price. I was greeted with replies such as "don't buy a DVD Recorder, you can't backup DVDs and you're much better off with a computer based DVD Rewriter".
Now all of a sudden now that I've got a DVD Rewriter and a TV Tuner card, everyone here is like "you're better of with a DVD Recorder". Make your mind's up people! -
Start with the guides on the left, primarily the ones on capturing and also encoding and authoring. Read them. Read ALL of them, those that raise questions read them again, in addition to doing a forum search on the relevant topic.
That would be my first and main suggestion. If after considering this project for over two years you are still not fully aware of the problems involved in real-time software encoding of mpg2 files, from VHS no less, you are not prepared. If two years is not enough time to get prepared, then I repeat the suggestion that a DVD recorder will be the easier solution.
Recording VHS tape is the most problematic aspect of digital video recording, the variations with VHS tape and its own specific limitations compound the problems involved in both digitizing and MPG encoding, the solutions are often complex, and vary with each type of problem encountered, almost with each specific tape.
Just wait until capture resolution comes into the picture, then out comes the charts and graphs, Nyquist theorem, and various other meaningless technical crap wrapped around false information.
Do test captures from a DVD source. Repeatable and near-perfect. Use MULTIPLE settings and resolutions. Test results on multiple displays, using several test subjects for evaluation. Then record from satellite or digital cable, same procedure. Then go to analog cable or OTA broadcast. You will note how procedures and results change as input signal degrades. Review and evaluate process, test again. Then, and only then, proceed to the worst case scenario, the crappiest available input signal, the VHS. -
Your computer ... with that capture card ... is too slow for real time MPEG-2 DVD spec capture/encode.
You will need to capture uncompressed OR you can use a video codec made for video capture ... one that does some lite compression ... such as HuffyUV or PICVideo MJPEG.
Then you have to use some sort of software MPEG-2 DVD spec software encoder such as TMPGEnc Plus or CCE etc.
It's the only way to get any quality (and I do mean good quality) out of that capture card.
Otherwise get a Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2 or a Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350 ... both are HARDWARE MPEG-2 DVD spec capture cards which have the "guts" needed to do real time MPEG-2 DVD spec captures/encoding even with your slow computer.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
P.S.
You should read the capture guide at the doom9 website"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Hey men, I feel your pain. But in two years a lot have change. I for instance have a ATI AIW 8500DV in my computer. Bouht it lie 3 years ago for $150. With it I can watch tv, record in MPEG1/2, AVI and the cards own native format. This is a powerfull highly recommended car by many people. But right now about 85% of my recordings are done with a DVR. I don't have to worry about aplications running, droped frames and the quality is very good on speed of 3hr or less. If you use dvd-rw is like using VHS they are reusables . you can rip mthe video on your PC and cut out commertials, edit video and if you like even do your own custom menus.
There is nothig wrong on capturing with a videocard but if it happend to you like it happend to my. My elderly mom shows up with her collection of VHS asking to convert them to DVD because they are not available on that formatt. You will see is a lot easier and dosen't tie up your PC for hour and hours.I want to believe.... -
So basically you're saying (because of my PC's setup) that I'm forced to use external programs (like TMPGEnc Plus) in order to get my VHS recordings into the MPEG2 format, right? I already knew it would take a lot of processing time anyway when I bought this particular TV Tuner card so I guess I'm prepared for the long wait.
I will read through the guides on the left carefully and attempt to draw out some key steps that apply to me.
And by the way, I encoded my captured MPEG1 file last night using TMPGEnc Plus. I chose the DVD PAL, Low Resolution format with CBR Linear, PCM Audio. It took about 40 minutes to encode 1 hours capture. I was left with a 340 Mb .m2v file and a 659 Mb .wav file. What now, author these files? -
Hi Soneman,
I used to capture to my PC using a Pinnacle TV card - the best solution I found was to capture using a program called Virtual VCR and a codec called huffyuv. These are all FREE !
You can see a guide on this here: http://www.doom9.org/capture/capturing_VirtualVCR.html
Alternatively you can use VirtualDUb (software), again with huffyuv. Again all FREE !
Here is a guide: http://www.doom9.org/capture/capturing_vdub.html
Virtualdub can have problems with WDM based cards - so try VirtualVCR if in doubt. Once you have capture your AVI file, you can then convert it to MPEG2 with Tmpgenc. Then "author" it with an authoring software (see guides to the left).
It takes a while to get everything working, but if you have time and patience you can succeed !
Re: DVD Recorders - I bought a recorder two years ago and haven't looked back since. The prices have dropped and the quality improved to a level where they are a good investment. However if you budhget doesn't stretch that far you can still get good results with the software above.
Good luck with it !
Moonstomp.Just because you're nobody, doesn't mean that you're no good. Just because there's a reason, doesn't mean it's understood. It doesn't make it all right ! (The Specials) -
soneman,
Actually, I think you'll be just fine with capturing in VCD (mpeg1). You mentioned earlier that it would give you about 7 hours on one DVD and were quite right. Not sure why others stared you away from this path. Especially since you’re not that concerned about the final quality.
- Go ahead and capture all your episodes in VCD. The resolution is perfectly valid for DVD. (1/4 DVD)
- Let your authoring software convert the non-DVD-compliant 44khz audio to 48khz audio for you. I've used both Ulead DVD Movie Factory and TEMPGenc DVD Author. Both will do the trick just fine.
Or, you could use some audio tool (I used besweet) on the audio after demuxing the video and audio to convert the audio from 44khz to 48khz...then re-mux. It was interesting in the beginning but once I saw the authoring tools did it for me with good vid/aud sync, I didn't bother)
- Enjoy watching all your episodes on DVD.
I could fit roughly 10 episodes (42 mins./420mb apiece after cutting commercials) of a one hour show on a DVD. That was just 2 and a half DVDs for a full season of B5. Captured from a fairly clean tape it actually came out quiet acceptable. Of course, it looks a whole lot better on my 27" than my 35" television. But definitely watchable.Have a good one,
neomaine
NEW! VideoHelp.com F@H team 166011!
http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=teampage&teamnum=166011
Folding@Home FAQ and download: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -
Well, I've tried using TMPGEnc DVD Author and it seems to be doing what I want it to do.
I've found a definitive method now for converting my captured VHS tapes into the DVD format. I can capture in MPEG1 using SoftPVR then convert to MPEG2 using TMPGEnc Plus and then authoring with TMPGEnc DVD Author. Then I have a choice of either using Imgtool to create an ISO image of my captured video and converted VOB files or, using Nero to burn straight to DVD-R.
I was also thinking about backing up some sporting events onto DVD. And seeing as TMPGEnc Plus allows me to choose the bitrate and filesize of the captured video in the MPEG2 format, I reckon I could fit 3-4 hours easily onto a single layer DVD. Especially considering that the quality of the original VHS recording is poor in the first place.
But for TV episodes, I think I might try what neomaine said and try fitting in around 7 hours of captured video onto a single DVD. -
You do realize that MPEG-1 has a resolution of 352x240 NTSC or 352x288 PAL and either way that is a very poor resolution.
You should NOT capture at that resolution ... the minimum resolution you should capture is 352x480 NTSC or 352x576 PAL ... the optimal resolution to capture would be 720x480 NTSC or 720x576 PAL although if your card is a BT based chipset you may need to capture different and must "test" it to find the correct aspect ratio ... if it is Philips based then the correct width would be 704 instead of 720.
Anyways all of this is covered in the DOOM9 capture guide.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Originally Posted by FulciLives
But at the moment, the quality between the captured video and the VHS tape is negligible. So I can’t see what encoding to a higher resolution will achieve.
However, I think MPEG2 is a must for live TV recorded straight from the Antenna onto the Hard Drive. Obviously, I’ll have to capture in MPEG1 first, and then convert to MPEG2 using TMPGEnc Plus. Then I can author with TMPGEnc DVD Author.
I suspect the picture quality for live TV recorded on the PC would be quite noticeable. But for my VHS tapes, playing around with the resolution and quality just isn’t worth it in my opinion. -
What's the difference between MPEG1 and MPEG2?
Standardized in 1992, MPEG1 was intended for VHS-quality signal transmission primarily for the then-nascent digital video market and is still considered an efficient use of bandwidth and storage space. MPEG2 was created as the standard for digital broadcasting to provide higher levels of bandwidth transmission needed by, amongst others, direct satellite service (DSS) providers. MPEG1 has an average compression rate of about 1.5 megabits per second (Mbps); the largest possible compression rate for MPEG1 is slightly more than 5 Mbps. MPEG2 bitrates fall between about 3Mbps and about 15Mbps. Interestingly, at bitrates below 3 Mbps, MPEG1 actually performs better than MPEG2. This is because the higher level of precision built into the MPEG2 algorithm requires more processing than MPEG1. At lower bitrates, the percentage difference is great enough to cause significant digital artifacts to appear in MPEG2 encoding that do not appear in MPEG1. MPEG2 should not be used at bitrates lower than 3 Mbps. -
Originally Posted by soneman
A frame of video is made up of two fields. With NTSC a frame is 480 or two fields of 240 each ... with PAL a frame is 576 or two fields of 288 each.
When you capture at VCD resolution you are only getting half of each frame and thus the resolution suffers BIG time. Even low or bad quality VHS has two fields for one frame of video.
So VCD resolution is NOT high enough to capture VHS resolution.
Have you tried using VirtualVCR to capture into a codec such as the HuffyUV codec?
An alternative is to attempt to capture using MPEG-1 but attempt to increase the resolution to 352x480 NTSC or 352x576 PAL ... that is out-of-spec for the VCD format ... but technically I think MPEG-1 can handle the higher resolution and keep the fields intact. I think. Of course if you use MPEG-1 and 352x480 NTSC or 352x576 PAL then you will have to use a higher bitrate than what is used for standard VCD MPEG-1 ... you probably would have to raise the bitrate to at around 3000kbps ... your machine MAY be able to handle that.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Originally Posted by Marvingj
Now I do think you can use higher resolutions with MPEG-1 and keep interlacing but I'm not 100% on that.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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MPEG1 video is fully compatible with DVD if the frame size and bitrates are right. I assume your capture software is capturing at VCD frame size (352x288 PAL) and bitrate (1150 kbps). If you're happy with that resolution and bitrate you can burn directly to DVD. To be fully within spec you need to convert the audio to 48 KHz sampling but most players will play VCD's 44.1 KHz MP2 audio.
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Originally Posted by FulciLives
Capturing in AVI will only take up more processing power and encoding time. I want to cut down on both. That's why going the capture MPEG1, convert to MPEG2 and author to DVD method is the best and most efficient way of converting my VHS tapes to DVD (well it is for me at least). The other way is to capture in MPEG then author straight to DVD. But then here, some picture and audio quality may be lost (depending on the quality of the original video source).
Capturing in AVI and then converting to MPEG2 will take more time to encode.
And I don't think it's possible for me to edit the resolution of my captured MPEG1 video as I can't see any option in SoftPVR to change the audio and video capture options. If anyone does know how to change the MPEG1 audio and video options in SoftPVR, then please let me know. -
Hi,
Did you get a user's guide with SoftPVR ?
From a google search : http://hauppauge.lightpath.net/manuals/wintv-man.pdf (A WINTV card guide which has details on settings in SoftPVR.
In SoftPVR you should have an option to select "Preferences". Then select the "Movies" tab.
Here you should be able to set the MPEG settings and audio settings.
Moonstomp.Just because you're nobody, doesn't mean that you're no good. Just because there's a reason, doesn't mean it's understood. It doesn't make it all right ! (The Specials) -
Originally Posted by Moonstomp
But whenever I try clicking on the 'Advanced' button, it doesn't do anything at all. It's almost as if I wasn't meant to click that button (when the MPEG1 option is chosen).
However, when I choose 'AVI' or 'DivX' from the drop down list and then click on the 'Advanced' button; all of a sudden a new window appears allowing me to choose a video and an audio codec. I can't understand it. -
You will loose more quality by capturing to MPEG-1 and converting to MPEG-2 compared to capture in MPEG-1 straight to DVD. The encoding time from MPEG-1 to MPEG-2 would be about the same as converting avi to MPEG-2.
Try the alternatives and see the differencies. I think your CPU really is strong enough to capture MPEG-2 at half DVD resolution 352x576. You can at least try it with Mainconcept PVR and see if it works. I could do it with my ATI All-in-wonder Radeon using ATI multimediacenter when I had a 1 GHz AMD Athlon CPU and I think a 2 GHz Celeron would be more powerful.
If huffyuv takes too much hard disc space when capturing to avi, then try PicVideo mjpeg codec which gives smaller files and then use software compression to DVD. PicVideo mjpeg is also easier on slow machines. I had no problems capturing 720x576 resolution with PicVideo mjpeg and the Athlon 1000 CPU.
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