Sony RDR-GX315 or Panasonic ES20

[ejai]

I just got my hands on a Sony RDR-GX315 and after reading many reviews I find that many people find it lacking in appeal. Especially the fact that it doesn't copy HBO shows that are copy protected. The workmanship is also in question.

I'm now noticing that people find the Panasonic ES20 as a better buy. I would like to know if anyone has an opinion about these two dvd recorders.

I'm open to any advice or opinion.

Thanks

[trhouse]

I have just posted tests of the GX315 on this thread as of yesterday. There are photos of the insides with some comments from gshelley61 and temperatures tests of some inside parts. It is at the very end of the thread.

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=279460

The big surprise for me was that it wants an IRE = 0 source but has no input black level adjustment. It does have output black level adjustment. No chasing playback or flexible record functions, but it does record to dvd+r dl.

[silicon_dt]

Sooo the 315 is not a good unit compared to the ES-20?

I am considering bringing my 325 back. I just got it, and it records very "washed out" video.

[gshelley61]

Correct, the Sony 315 has no input black level settings and therefore does not compensate for NTSC 7.5 IRE black level sources. Resulting DVD's made from these types of sources (VHS, TV/cable, 8mm, Hi8, SVHS, laserdisc, etc.) are encoded at the wrong black level and look washed out.

The Panasonic ES20 is a much better unit.

[silicon_dt]

What about the Panasonic ES-20 vs. Tosshiba D-R4?

[samijubal]

The Toshiba is considerably better than any Panasonic I've used, but the last Panasonic I tried was the E-55. If you're looking for a JVC, Panasonic replacement, try the Toshiba, you won't be disappointed.

[trhouse]

Here is an image made with the GX315 with an IRE = 7.5 source.


and with the source set for IRE = 0,

[silicon_dt]

so toshiba is the winner?

[ejai]

Gshelley61, I tried making a copy using the RDR-GX315 and it looked fine. I didn't see any difference in the black level (at least as far as my eyes can see). I'm not saying your wrong, but did you find a significant difference in the copy?

What about the mechanical aspect of the RDR315 do you feel it seem a bit cheap in it's construction? Do you know of many tales of defects?

[samijubal]

Of the ones I've used, JVC, Panasonic, Pioneer, Toshiba, Toshiba is definitely the best.

[ejai]

Toshiba definately has slightly better contrast.

[samijubal]

You've used the Toshiba and you're still looking for another recorder? You don't loike the Toshiba?

[silicon_dt]

No i bought the sony 315. Which seems really washed out.
I am now considering the Toshiba D-R4 OR the panasonic ES-20.

I would "like" to have DV support but it is not needed. Since I do most of my dv on the computer.

The d-r4 doesnt have dv. But the panasonic does. Is there that much image quality differences between the two, to justify this?

[samijubal]

I meant that last post to ejai. The last Panasonic I tried was an E-55, so I don't really know about the new ones. I've used an E-10, E-20, E-50 and E-55, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between them, so unless they've made some drastic changes in the new ones, the Toshiba is definitely better.

[ejai]

No I don't have the Toshiba, I was talking about the pictures, I have the Sony but I plan to take it back for the Panasonic, I just want to know if there is a major difference.

I like the Sony's picture.

[ejai]

I've used an E-10, E-20, E-50 and E-55, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between them, so unless they've made some drastic changes in the new ones, the Toshiba is definitely better.

Are you saying that the E-20 is the same as the ES20 (are they the same machines)? If so, everyone seems to think that the ES20 is a much better machine than the previous models.

I would like to know how well the Toshiba recorder hides video artifacts such as mpeg video files that have lots of noise in the video. The Sony seems to do a very good job of filtering out this type of noise. I'm wondering if the ES20 has similar filtering capablilites.

[trhouse]

There is not much black in the images I posted above. Here are two that show the difference in black level better,

First the source is IRE = 7.5


Now the source is IRE = 0


The newer Panasonics like the ES20 and ES30 have the LSI encoder chip and these recorders capture as 720 by 480 instead of the old 704 by 480. These are not the same as the E20, etc which are quite a bit older.

[samijubal]

I haven't used anything past the E-55, so I don't know about the ES20. From the E-10 to the E-55, I didn't see much difference. I used to believe in Panasonic, most of my electronics were Panasonic. Their reliability is debatable these days, I don't buy Panasonic anymore. I don't record anything with lots of noise, all I record from is a satellite, I haven't even tried VHS. I'm going to try VHS someday soon just to see what it looks like. I haven't watched anything from VHS in a couple of years, too poor quality for me.

[ejai]

Thanks everyone, I will take what has been stated so far to heart

[FulciLives]

The pics I've seen from the Toshiba D-R4 look pretty amazing although I think all if not most have been from gshelley61 who has some really nice hardware for VHS sources (proc amp and detailer and broadcast standard VCR etc.) so it's hard to tell if the Toshiba is THAT good or if it's gshelley61's pre-processing.

I have a Pioneer DVR-531H-s and I am very happy with it although I understand that the Pioneer models are hard to find these days except on eBay so I'm guessing Pioneer has new models in the works?

However if I had to make the purchase over again I think I would still go with the Pioneer HDD models but not the current non-HDD model as that model is a lot different than the HDD models.

I guess for a non-HDD model I would have to go with the Toshiba D-R4 these days and if I wanted a model with a built-in HDD it would be a Pioneer model (like the 531/533/633) or perhaps the Toshiba RD-XS34 which as I understand it is basically the same as the D-R4 model but includes a built-in 160GB HDD.

I just checked PRICEGRABBER.COM and the Pioneer units are barely available but I saw several really good deals on the 531 model on eBay and all were brand new and sealed.

So I guess it's eBay for the Pioneer models or the Toshiba RD-XS34 if you want something easier to find ... assuming you want a model with a built-in HDD.

In case anyone is interested here is a link were I posted some screen grabs of recordings done on my Pioneer DVR-531H-s

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=284140

Last but not least there are the JVC models but if I recall correctly I think ejai said he had one and didn't like it so perhaps it's best not to mention it here :P

Although I should point out that the Panasonic DMR-ES20 uses the exact same LSI chipset as the JVC so if anyone here dislikes the JVC then I would assume that such a person would also dislike the Panny as well.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[ejai]

My major issue with the JVC M10 was the softening of the image. I noticed that other brands are using the same chip but their videos are more sharper with deeper colors.

I'm not sure if i want to go with Panasonic either, but I am thinking seriously about the Toshiba brand

[FulciLives]

No i bought the sony 315. Which seems really washed out.
I am now considering the Toshiba D-R4 OR the panasonic ES-20.

I would "like" to have DV support but it is not needed. Since I do most of my dv on the computer.

The d-r4 doesnt have dv. But the panasonic does. Is there that much image quality differences between the two, to justify this?

I just wanted to point out that I've seen tests done where people compared DV out from a DV cam VS analog out from a DV cam.

In one test a stand alone DVD recorder was used where pics were compared with one set of pics being a DV cam with DV out to the recorder VS the other set of pics where the analog out of the DV cam was used to the DVD recorder.

In another test a Canopus ADVC-100 was used. One set of pics was the DV cam hooked directly to the computer with the DV out and the other set of pics was the analog out of the DV cam hooked up to the Canopus ADVC-100 which then did DV conversion and sent it to the computer over DV.

In both cases the difference between the analog and DV was almost impossible to tell ... in fact the Canopus ADVC-100 looked better on some pics!

So if your stand alone DVD recorder doesn't have DV in I wouldn't worry about it ... just use the analog out of the DV cam ... the difference is a non issue as far as I am concerned.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[trhouse]

I would check out this link,

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=279460

gshelley61 did quite a few comparisons of DV in vs analog in. Only a few recorders notably the Lite-On seems to be nearly as good as DV in. All the DV in's were not equal. The Pioneer 533H regrettably delivered a rather subpar capture from DV in.

[ejai]

I'm going to take the Sony 315 back this weekend, it seems no one feels it's up to par.

[trhouse]

What is most important is if you like it. There is a $50 rebate on it right now so it can be had for less than $150 ( most stores like Circuit City have it for $199 before rebate ).

[ejai]

I think what worries me the most is whether this is a stable machine. What I seem to hear alot is that some people feel that the Sony recorder has mechanical issues.

I am wondering if those who own this machine are finding technical flaws.

[gshelley61]

It's not even designed or built by Sony, apparently. I've read that it is actually a re-branded Samsung machine.

[ejai]

It's not even designed or built by Sony, apparently. I've read that it is actually a re-branded Samsung machine.

I read the same thing you did and I'm taking it back today and I plan to pick up either the Toshiba DR5 or Panasonic ES20.

Does anyone have any opinion about the The Toshiba DR5?

[ejai]

I''ve just purchased the Toshiba DR5 it has HDMI capabilities which will work fine with my Hi Def TV. After I test it a bit I will state my findings.