XVCD: 704x480, 720x480 or 352x240 ???

[Sterling]

Ok, for the past 6 months or so, when I acquire a DivX movie that I want to watch on TV, Ive been converting to MPEG1, 720x480(NTSC) @ whatever bitrate will fit on 2 80 min CDs (usually around 1800k or so).

In my quest for a capture card, Ive seen a TON of them that say they only capture up to 704x480. I also was recently perusing the Philips VCD 2.0 spec and saw that it said 704x480.

My 1st question is what resolution should I convert to? This site says 720x480 but is that wasting space? Would 704x480 be better?

My 2nd question is (surprisingly) that I have never done an XVCD @ 352x240, Ive always done them at 720x480, so if I start doing them at 352x240 will my video quality increase since I'm only displaying 1/4 of the picture at the same bitrate?

Thanks!

Sterling

[w00kiee]

well.. xvcd is really not a spec .. it just kinda hopes for a generous dvd player to play on

720x480 is dvd resolution (the ccir-601 standard has 720 bits of info horizontally) so its assumed a dvd player wouldnt mind a video in that format it can already play

lots of cap cards support 720x480..

anyways.. i think more rez the better..i vote 720x480.. if your card only does 704x480 its just cutting off 8 pixels to the extreme left and right (it might be taking them all off one side but not likely) anyways you wont miss them. then just encode to 720x480

[muddyshooz]

But, but, but .... wouldn't the resultant (X)VCD look better at 352x240 than 720x480 assuming the same 1800 kbps? I would certainly think so.

Also, what kind of player do you have that's so generous and have you tried higher bit rates (i.e. > 2500 kbps at 720x480)? And wouldn't that really fall under the XSVCD category if you're using 720x480?

Questions, questions.

[kwag]

Use 720X480 MPEG-1 but raise your bitrate to 2000bps and make it VBR instead of CBR.

This should fit approximately 55 minutes on a 80 minute CD.

When using TMPG Encoder, be sure to set as Video CD ( non-standard ) and VBV buffer to 48 instead of 40.

As for compatibility on this format, I have played this on the following DVD players.

Pioneer 333
Panasonic DVD-RP56
JVC 7 disk DVD changer model XV-F80BK
Panasonic portable DVD player DVD-L10
Panasonic DMR-E20S DVD Player/ DVD-R/DVD-RAM Recorder

Cheers.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kwag on 2001-12-28 14:58:54 ]</font>

[GLADIATOR 2002]

Kwak...I think everyone went over this before with you. Now you are re-visiting the same subject again...after Kdiddy and Sefy and all replies. What up homey?

[GLADIATOR 2002]

Excuse me ....Kwag..mis-spelled your ID in my last post...just some respect..by the way...what was all this SEARS stuff about when we were discussing resolutions and so forth for MPEG1 and MPEG2? Just curious.

[kwag]

I believe I am answering questions to the people here. Don't you think?.

Did you really read Sefy's answers?
Read them again.

[kwag]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-28 15:00:50, GLADIATOR 2002 wrote:
Excuse me ....Kwag..mis-spelled your ID in my last post...just some respect..by the way...what was all this SEARS stuff about when we were discussing resolutions and so forth for MPEG1 and MPEG2? Just curious.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I put one of my XVCD's ( MPEG-1_720X480_VBR_@2000bps ) on the Panasonic RP56 demonstration DVD player use at Sears.
It feeds 7 large ( 40" to 60" ) Televisions and it looked just like the original DVD.

I also tested a regular VCD ( 352X240 ) and it looks worse!. Because 352X240 has to expand to the NTSC television resolution, but the XVCD actually has to shrink the image to fit. The result is that the macroblocks are very small on the XVCD and much larger on the regular VCD.

Also a key point here is the excelent TMPG encoder that does a wonderful job on "motion estimation". And it's getting better!. Try the new version 2.5.

Regards.

[muddyshooz]

Hey kwag,

I'll give the "720x480 MPEG-1 VBR 2000 kbps" a try. I can always use the resultant coasters at my New Year's Eve party.

[kwag]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-28 16:06:05, muddyshooz wrote:
Hey kwag,

I'll give the "720x480 MPEG-1 VBR 2000 kbps" a try. I can always use the resultant coasters at my New Year's Eve party.

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL!.
Remember to frameserve also at 720X480. If you have a fast PC ( P4 >= 1.5G ) you're fine ( encoding 6-8 hours ). If you have a P3 1000MHZ, be ready to encode for about 24 hours!.

Just to let you know!.

[muddyshooz]

Wahahahah!

One more thing (please forgive the newbie-ness), I'm assuming I shouldn't de-interlace my source first, correct? I've heard that MPEG-1 doesn't understand interlacing, and thus the settings are all grayed out in TMPGEnc for it.

You don't happen to have a template available for it, do you? I wouldn't want to miss one of those settings!

If not, is that 2000 kbps max or average?

-Shooz.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: muddyshooz on 2001-12-28 16:40:57 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: muddyshooz on 2001-12-28 16:44:14 ]</font>

[Sterling]

I am playing my S/X/VCDs on a Sony DVP-S560D. I was VERY surprised that it handled XVCDs. I cant remember how high I took the bitrate when I started converting AVIs.

I have in the past always done 720x480 CBR; if I do VBR and set the high to 2000, low to 0 and average to whatever the bitrate calculator says, it should fit on 2 CDs shouldnt it?

How much longer will encoding VBR take than encoding CBR? A 2 hour movie usually takes 3-4 hours to convert from MPEG4 to MPEG1.

Thanks!

Sterling

[kinneera]

I've done some movies at 720x480 VBR, but I would strongly recommend you stick to 480x480 or 352x480 if you're going to try to put more than 55 min. on a disc or if there is lots of fast motion in the video. Remember, fewer bits not only increases the probability of blocks, but also has other effects such as reducing color fidelity and blurring out fine details. For 720x480, it is really very advisable to have an average bitrate of at least 2000Kbps, and even then only for low-action movies.

[kwag]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-28 16:39:31, muddyshooz wrote:
Wahahahah!

One more thing (please forgive the newbie-ness), I'm assuming I shouldn't de-interlace my source first, correct? I've heard that MPEG-1 doesn't understand interlacing, and thus the settings are all grayed out in TMPGEnc for it.

You don't happen to have a template available for it, do you? I wouldn't want to miss one of those settings!

If not, is that 2000 kbps max or average?

-Shooz.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: muddyshooz on 2001-12-28 16:40:57 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: muddyshooz on 2001-12-28 16:44:14 ]</font>
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Check your mail!.

[muddyshooz]

kwag: Checked it! My lowly Athlon 700 is cranking away on a clip even as we speak.

kinneera: youdaman! Thanks for helping me out on my other posts, too. I'm not so much concerned with fitting a certain amount of time on a disc as making sure my pioneer-444 will play them at all! (and most others players, too, for that matter ... you know, for all my highschool friends).

[uknow]

kwag, would you mind sending me that templete.

thanx

[ewingr]

Kwag: I hate to ask, this can get old for you, but I'd like to have that template too. I took a look at my settings, thinking I'd play with them. They are greyed out, and I cannot change the bit rate. I wonder what that's all about.

Thanks!

[baz00ie]

For those of you just starting out.....

Don't get too worked up about 720x480 or 704x480 unless you intend to have your video broadcasted from your local television station. These resolutions were decided upon when video was first digitized onto computers and they needed the extra horizontal pixels to hide video noise and artifacts produced by the early capture cards. The final output to TV will always endup at a 4:3 ratio.

The 720x480 screen gets squashed into a 4:3 ratio because your TV uses non-square pixels, however, a computer uses square pixels and a resolution of 720x480 will appear too fat and distorted when played back. Inorder to make a video image look correct on a computer, you have to capture at the same ratio of 4:3 - in other words 640x480.

Also, that 640x480 image will look just fine when you play it back on your TV - because your computer takes care of the aspect ratio for you.

(...remember to set your monitor resolution to a square 4:3 ratio as well, ie: 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x960, 1600x1200, etc...)

Now, Interlacing.....

If you capture a video broadcast (ie: a gameshow) and you intend to keep the resolution at 640x480, then you need to de-interlace to make it look good on your computer. If you 're going to resize to 320x240 - then you don't need to de-interlace.

If you capture a movie from video (ie: Gone With The Wind) then you will need to processes it using inverse-telecine to reduce the frame rate to 23.976FPS. It's best to do this process on video that was captured at ***x480 so that you're working with all the scan lines. You'll need all the scan lines to help insure a successful reconstruction.

After that you can resize to 320x240.

My 2 cents
baz

[Kdiddy]

Poor poor newbs..getting led astray like lambs to the slaughter house.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kdiddy on 2001-12-29 14:28:04 ]</font>