Trying to find Capture Card - w/ Component input

[tS_veXed]

Hi, I play XBox 360 at a competetive level, and I am starting to upgrade my recording hardware.

I currently have a dazzle capture device which uses the s-video input.

I want to stop using that, as I play on High def using the component cables (green,blue,red) for the video input, and I want to start recording using that video also.

I purchased a 1:2 Video distribution amp today, along with a set of professional grade component cables.

This allows me to plug my xbox 360 directly into the amp, then run two identicle video feeds out. One into the back of my TV, and the second into a capture device.

This is where Im stuck. i would have purchased the capture card/device today if i had found one i thought would work, but I have not been able.

I was wondering if there are any capture devices or capture cards, that have the component input for all three RCA wires, the green, blue, and red.

I understand that HDTV cards can get expensive, and I have a budget of around $500 remaining for the card, but I would like to spend around $200/$300 if possible. I would also prefer an extrernal capture device as opposed to an actual PCI card.

Can someone please help me out if you know of a place, or a product, which would be able to provide me with what I need. Also, is there some kind of converter/splitter that may allow me to plug the outgoing component cables in and then run into another kind of input on a PCI card?

I use sony vegas for my video editing, but a card/device that comes with some kind of free software for the actual capture of the footage would also be great.

Thanks very much for any help you may be able to give me.

veXed

[bobkart]

I use an ADS Pyro API-555 to convert from Component Video to FireWire, then capture the FireWire on a PC:

http://www.epinions.com/A_D_S_PYRO_AV_Link_API_555_API555

But it will only do 480i, which is true of anything else you will find out there as far as I know, there are no HDTV capture cards yet, the HDTV cards you are talking about have ATSC tuners and will capture that content to your hard drive in HD, but not from Component Video input (unless they have come out with one since the last time I checked).

You didn't mention whether you are trying to record HD or SD video. Short of a W-VHS setup, recording HD video via Component Video is not happening yet. If it is please tell me so I can do it too!

[tS_veXed]

ok, thanks for the advice.

I am looking at that capture device, and I dont see the green or blue inputs on the RCA.

I did notice that it said component inputs, but by this did it mean RGB? Because like I said, I do not see any of those colored inputs.

[bobkart]

Yes it has Component Video inputs, I use it all the time for that, they are on the other side. Find where someone lists the specifications if you want to see it in writing.

[tS_veXed]

No, I'll take your word for it. thanks for the help man. Im going to try to find this in a local store this evening, and If i cant, then I'll buy it online.

thanks again for everything.

[edDV]

Yes it has Component Video inputs, I use it all the time for that, they are on the other side. Find where someone lists the specifications if you want to see it in writing.

So these component inputs would be 480i SD input only right? Will it accept 480p? You aren't going to get high definition this way.

[tS_veXed]

one more quick question. does it come with any software to capture with? I have programs i use to edit video (soney vegas for example) but I usually prefer to capture directly onto the standard software, and then transfer the video over to vegas for editing, etc.

[bobkart]

Anything that can capture DV will suffice. WMM, WinDV, many applications do this.

[bobkart]

So these component inputs would be 480i SD input only right? Will it accept 480p? You aren't going to get high definition this way.

Correct, 480i only as I pointed out earlier on. No HD this way (or any other way?).

If anyone here knows how to capture HD on a PC it would be you edDV.

[edDV]

So these component inputs would be 480i SD input only right? Will it accept 480p? You aren't going to get high definition this way.

Correct, 480i only as I pointed out earlier on. No HD this way (or any other way?).

If anyone here knows how to capture HD on a PC it would be you edDV.

AJA or BlackMagic cards but $$$ required.

[bobkart]

Yeah I suspected they just might be starting to creep in on the high end.

[tS_veXed]

yeah i was looking at the blackmajic cards.

Im not really worried about the actual captured footage being High Def to be honest. I always captured using the yellow vuideo cable and the quality was always fine, I just wanted to be able to play on high def on the TV, and the only way I could do that AND record, was to find something that would accept a component input for capturing.

Im about to purchase that.

thanks again for the advice

[bobkart]

Ummm, you're still not there then.

If your game console is outputting HD, then the converter box is being fed HD. That won't work. It must be 480i as has been mentioned two or three times.

You'd need an HD-to-SD converter which are not cheap. Another thing I've been trying to find.

I'm not sure how you thought you could send HD to the TV and 480i to the converter box from a single A/V output of the game console.

I want to do this same thing from a PS2 with GT4, race in HD but send a recording in 480i to the DVD Recorder. I can't without such an HD-to-SD converter.

[edDV]

yeah i was looking at the blackmajic cards.

Im not really worried about the actual captured footage being High Def to be honest.

That's good because these cards operate uncompressed SMPTE-292M 1.485 Gb/s. That means a big RAID and 11.1GB/minute (668GB/hr) storage.

A realtime MPeg2 or MPeg4 encoding card would be more practical.

[Darkk]

Would be nice if somebody makes a HDMI input/capture card for the PC. It would simplfy alot of things for HD.

Darkk

[bobkart]

Yes of course. Except that HDMI carries uncompressed information, so the bitrates would be off the scale. 1.44Gb/s just for the video.

Add to that the fact that HDMI was designed expressly to not allow such copying (only compliant devices may acknowledge the HDMI protocol) and it's not going to happen. By compliant I mean not a device that can copy the material received. A capture card is exactly what that rules out.

[VaBeachGuy]

The Blackmagic Intensity looks very interesting, it has HDMI and Component Inputs for the PC or Mac.

Has anyone used this card to capture HD? I'm wanting to make a "homebrew" DVR and need something that will accept an HD signal from a commercial box via HDMI or Component cables and capture it to my hard drive. This card looks perfect.

[edDV]

The Blackmagic Intensity looks very interesting, it has HDMI and Component Inputs for the PC or Mac.

Has anyone used this card to capture HD? I'm wanting to make a "homebrew" DVR and need something that will accept an HD signal from a commercial box via HDMI or Component cables and capture it to my hard drive. This card looks perfect.

The rub is the file size it generates. HDMI is uncompressed YCbCr or RGB. Ready for 700GB/hr files? This card is intended for editing programs and disc systems that can handle uncompressed HD. It comes with software that encodes MJPeg on the fly but the file sizes are still very large and not easily played since HDTV sets don't decode MJPeg.

[VaBeachGuy]

The Blackmagic Intensity looks very interesting, it has HDMI and Component Inputs for the PC or Mac.

Has anyone used this card to capture HD? I'm wanting to make a "homebrew" DVR and need something that will accept an HD signal from a commercial box via HDMI or Component cables and capture it to my hard drive. This card looks perfect.

The rub is the file size it generates. HDMI is uncompressed YCbCr or RGB. Ready for 700GB/hr files? This card is intended for editing programs and disc systems that can handle uncompressed HD. It comes with software that encodes MJPeg on the fly but the file sizes are still very large and not easily played since HDTV sets don't decode MJPeg.

700GB per hour? That stinks. The main thing I'm wanting to do is archive my favorite football team's games. I can do that in SD with no problem but was hoping to also do it in HD. I guess I'm a little ahead of where the technology is right now, unless there are other options out there that haven't been mentioned yet.

I have seen some interesting things about the Nextcom R-5000 but I don't have a way of using it in my setup.

I guess the search goes on, as well as the wait for something good to be developed.

[edDV]

There are various ways to record SD off HD cable/sat tuner boxes.

1. S-Video + audio to a capture card always works for SD recording. Best to use a capture card that encodes in hardware.

2. Local channels can often be recorded in HD MPeg2_TS format (~20-25Mb/s) off the IEEE-1394 port.

3. Cable QAM tuner cards can extract SD/HD MPeg program streams for locals (3-5Mb/s SD, 12-19Mb/s HD)

[VaBeachGuy]

There are various ways to record SD off HD cable/sat tuner boxes.

1. S-Video + audio to a capture card always works for SD recording. Best to use a capture card that encodes in hardware.

2. Local channels can often be recorded in HD MPeg2_TS format (~20-25Mb/s) off the IEEE-1394 port.

3. Cable QAM tuner cards can extract SD/HD MPeg program streams for locals (3-5Mb/s SD, 12-19Mb/s HD)

The way I do SD is via direct extraction of the file off my DTV's TiVo, then I do the process of transcoding the 480x480 (sometimes 544x480) video using ProCoder. I would have done the same process for the HD files this coming season but DTV will be switching to MPEG4 in August or September and my HR10 TiVo will not be picking up the HD broadcasts any longer. I'm getting a new HR20 but that's not a TiVo and I don't have a way of extracting the HD video from that box.

I suppose I could always go the route of re-recording the HD game at the highest quality setting that would fit on a DL disc, it wouldn't be HD anymore but it would still be a higher quality than an SD broadcast game.

One good thing about the HR10 is that it will still record the local HD channels so I'll be able to get any locally broadcast games in HD but not all of them.

[VaBeachGuy]

The rub is the file size it generates. HDMI is uncompressed YCbCr or RGB. Ready for 700GB/hr files? This card is intended for editing programs and disc systems that can handle uncompressed HD. It comes with software that encodes MJPeg on the fly but the file sizes are still very large and not easily played since HDTV sets don't decode MJPeg.

You say the HDMI is uncompressed and would generate 700GB/hr files but what about through component cable? Would that make any difference?

[edDV]

The rub is the file size it generates. HDMI is uncompressed YCbCr or RGB. Ready for 700GB/hr files? This card is intended for editing programs and disc systems that can handle uncompressed HD. It comes with software that encodes MJPeg on the fly but the file sizes are still very large and not easily played since HDTV sets don't decode MJPeg.

You say the HDMI is uncompressed and would generate 700GB/hr files but what about through component cable? Would that make any difference?

Also uncompressed.

Same with VGA. All are monitor streams (although analog component and VGA are analog versions). The idea is to not burden the monitor cost with decompression chips. These outputs carry no more "picture quality" than the input signal. They are just decompressed and very high bit rate or bandwidth. That us why cables need to be short.

[VaBeachGuy]

I was doing a little more reading on the blackmagic and it looks like it is compressed, but still very large. Somewhere around the rate of 12mb per second. If I did the math right that works out to over 40gb per hour. Still way too large for what I want to do.

I guess the fact that it's out there is a good thing, hopefully someone will refine it.

[uscboy]

But can you rip Component with the Pro card at the 40GB/hour rate and
then bring that MJPEG .avi file into other editing/authoring programs and
output HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray compatible video/audio to burn to a disc?

It won't work for a PVR because of the space restrictions and data rates,
but for archiving 1080i video onto HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray discs, this card
should work assuming you have a decent computer, right?

Just don't want to spend the money until I know the MJPEG compression
BlackMagic uses is compatible with programs like VideoStudio and
MovieFactory and things like that - is it an industry standard type of
compression in the final .avi you get when you capture?

[edDV]

I was doing a little more reading on the blackmagic and it looks like it is compressed, but still very large. Somewhere around the rate of 12mb per second. If I did the math right that works out to over 40gb per hour. Still way too large for what I want to do.

I guess the fact that it's out there is a good thing, hopefully someone will refine it.

I'm trying to stop you guys from wasting $250. The card is clearly spec'd and it does not have hardware compression at all. You are reading the software spec.

Read here:
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/

The only on card processing is 1080i/p to 720p conversion, HD to SD up/downconversion and some color space adjustment SD to HD. It also has some API calls that are currently used by Final Cut Pro and Premiere Pro to access frames. Unless you are using these programs or are a developer these are meaningless to you.

"Processing
Colorspace Conversion Hardware based real time.

HD Down Conversion

Real time 1080HD and 720HD to standard definiton during video playback.

Real time standard definition to 1080HD and 720HD during video capture.

Real time effects Apple Final Cut Pro™ internal effects on Mac OS X™.
Adobe® Premiere Pro® internal effects in DV, MJPEG and uncompressed edit formats."

Also note the card WILL NOT WORK from an HDCP blocked source like an HD cable box. Unless you know for a fact your box doesn't have blocked HDMI out, don't go this way and/or make sure you aren't facing restocking charges which are typical for pro dealers. They will not absorb the costs for your mistake. They usually will usually advise you up front. Ask first.

"Compatibility

The HDMI standard sometimes includes copy protection encryption, such as commonly found on DVD players and some brands of set top boxes. When connected to these copy protected sources, the HDMI specification defines that Intensity cards cannot capture. Always confirm copyright ownership before capture or distribution of content. Intensity media file formats are fully compatible with DeckLink and Multibridge capture cards. Compatible with Microsoft Windows™ and Apple Intel based Mac Pro systems. Apple Power PC systems are not yet supported."

The intensity software will convert to MJPEG if your CPU meets spec but that may be of limited use to you unless you are editing. You need to consider the project flow.

Also check out system requirements for HD MJPeg.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/detail.asp?techID=177#software

[uscboy]

Hey, I appreciate you trying to save me money, no complaints there.

I know about the HDMI thing, obviously can't use that... but HDCP isn't on Component video. So, I guess my questions more specifically are:

How does the card give you a 30-40GB/hour rate AND a ~700GB/hour mode? I know that uncompressed Component video is ~700GB/hour, but on their site they have a chart that shows a capture mode for 1080i/720p at around 30-40GB/hour instead... in MJPEG. Is this not 'on card' compression? And if it's not on card compression, how do they reduce the size so much - realtime using your CPU? Or is the 30-40GB/hour rate the card downsampling the video to SD video?

If you can rip Component video at 30-40GB/hour with this Pro card at 1080i in this MJPEG mode, is the final .avi file you get compatible with most software out there for re-encodes/transcodes/etc?

I care less about processing time to reencode and I can get plenty of SATA disks in a RAID 0 (I have two 320GB now only) and have a Core2Duo 2.13Ghz overclocked to 3.21Ghz, and 2GB of PC6400 RAM, so it's not that slow.

[VaBeachGuy]

I'd really like to get ahold of the card to play around with it, at this point though I'm not willing to throw the money away.

I see that Sony is coming out with a Blu-Ray Recorder and Toshiba has an HD recorded, the prices will be way too high to start off but eventually will come down so it may be worth it to just wait a year or so and just buy a recorder.

As it is right now I can extract the HD content from my TiVo (HR10-250) but soon that will only be getting OTA HD signals.

[edDV]

Hey, I appreciate you trying to save me money, no complaints there.

I know about the HDMI thing, obviously can't use that... but HDCP isn't on Component video. So, I guess my questions more specifically are:

How does the card give you a 30-40GB/hour rate AND a ~700GB/hour mode? I know that uncompressed Component video is ~700GB/hour, but on their site they have a chart that shows a capture mode for 1080i/720p at around 30-40GB/hour instead... in MJPEG. Is this not 'on card' compression? And if it's not on card compression, how do they reduce the size so much - realtime using your CPU? Or is the 30-40GB/hour rate the card downsampling the video to SD video?

If you can rip Component video at 30-40GB/hour with this Pro card at 1080i in this MJPEG mode, is the final .avi file you get compatible with most software out there for re-encodes/transcodes/etc?

I care less about processing time to reencode and I can get plenty of SATA disks in a RAID 0 (I have two 320GB now only) and have a Core2Duo 2.13Ghz overclocked to 3.21Ghz, and 2GB of PC6400 RAM, so it's not that slow.

Most component SD/HD cards out there have analog component in and uncompressed SDI (SMPTE 259m/292m) out.

I don't have the card but the card specs mention nothing about hardware compression. It seems to dump uncompressed video to the PCIe bus. The software driver has extreme system requrirements (Dell workstations don't quality) so I must conclude the compression happens in software. Even so HD MJPeg is still huge by consumer standards. This card is mainly intended for high end FinalCut Pro and Premiere Pro edit workstations although a fast consumer system may keep up.

From System Requirements link

Once you have found a chassis you like, you will need to fill it with a power supply, motherboard, CPU, RAM, hard disk and an Intensity card and then install your desired software from the list of supported applications above.

Traditionally uncompressed HD video has required the use of very fast, external disk arrays. However the high quality Online JPEG codec included with the Intensity drivers means that you can capture high definition video to a single, internal SATA disk. If you want to work with uncompressed video, you'll need at least two SATA disks in a RAID 0 configuration for standard definition. For uncompressed high defintion we'd recommend at least four SATA II disks (with 16 MB cache and running at 7200rpm) in a RAID 0 configuation. The motherboards listed above are inexpensive and assume the use of internal disk storage for capture and playback of video. The following list of chassis note whether there is enough space and power connections for an internal SD or HD disk array.

[edDV]

I was just looking down the list of Blackmagic retailers. Most are quality system builders who should be able advise you. Check their web sites for edit system integration experience. You won't be getting much of a discount from these guys. Best to get your "discount" in free engineering advice.