How much quality loss happens?

[nathanaa]

I'm wondering how much quality loss I would or am experiencing in some DVDs I'm making. I hope folks more experienced than I could give opinions.

I have some TV shows recorded off of TV. Each episode is on one DVD, about 4.3 gigs with commercials. I used DVDDecrypter to rip the DVD onto the HDD. I then loaded the individual episodes from the HDD into TMPGEnc DVDAuthor, used it to edit out the commercials, give each episode a simple menu, then saving the now-commercial free episode into a second folder. I did this for each episode, which were down to about 2.8 gigs per episode now.

I then used DVDShrink to rip *just* the episode from each TDA output file into another, separate file on my HDD (I wanted to lose the menu). I then used TDA again, making a new DVD file, but this time loading 2 or 3 episodes onto each DVD, each output file being between ~6 and 8 gigs.

Those output files I am now running through DVDRebuilder with the CCE encoder, to get them down to fit onto a DVD-R, which I then can burn with either Nero or running it through DVDShrink again (which uses my Nero to burn anyway).

My question then is this - from the original "full size" television recordings to the final burned disc, with all the processing back and forth I've done, how much quality loss will there be? Would I even notice it? Can it be rated as a percentage (ex - "you'll lose x% quality or so")?

Using the programs I've mentioned, if anyone knows a better way for me to do this, I'm willing to listen. I figured this process out on my own, so if there are shortcuts, I'm open to 'em.

Thanks for any comments, advice, etc.

[jimmalenko]

I then loaded the individual episodes from the HDD into TMPGEnc DVDAuthor, used it to edit out the commercials, give each episode a simple menu, then saving the now-commercial free episode into a second folder. I did this for each episode, which were down to about 2.8 gigs per episode now.

I then used DVDShrink to rip *just* the episode from each TDA output file into another, separate file on my HDD (I wanted to lose the menu). I then used TDA again, making a new DVD file, but this time loading 2 or 3 episodes onto each DVD, each output file being between ~6 and 8 gigs.

I think you can cut this section down *A LOT*. Firstly, if you don't want the menu TMPGEnc DVD Author makes, just set it to "No Menu". Problem solved

Secondly, there's no need for the middle DVDShrink step as you can import titles straight into TMPGEnc DVD Author - there's no need to cut the menus out using DVDShrink.

Thirdly, you should be able to import both (or all 3 ) ripped eps into TMPGEnc DVD Author the first time (just create 3 separate tracks or whatever), then do the edits on the first, and subsequent tracks, all in the one sitting.

My question then is this - from the original "full size" television recordings to the final burned disc, with all the processing back and forth I've done, how much quality loss will there be? Would I even notice it? Can it be rated as a percentage (ex - "you'll lose x% quality or so")?

No, it can't be rated as a %. The original capture will be at reduced quality to the original, then the Re-encode with DVD-RB will cost you a little more, and then the optional DVDShrink step at the end will cost you even more. This is all theoretical, mind you, as there's a difference between quality loss and noticeable quality loss to the eye of the beerholder. It also depends on the hardware you're displaying this on as well as to how noticeable any defects might be.

Apart from that, the only thing I'd say is that I'd advocate making the re-encoding step hit your final target (4.37GB), first time. Quality Vs Running Time is the great DVD balancing act - and you can't have your cake and eat it too. Don't rely on DVDShrink to automagically make things work for you

[ZippyP.]

The only point where you lose quality is the rebuilder phase. How much? Tough to say but you chose the right tool so that the loss is reduced as much as possible.

The only shortcut I might suggest is to edit and author all your clips all at once into one big oversized DVD. Add each DVD as a new track ("Add new track"). Saves several ripping and re-authoring steps.

Edit: Jim and I agree that you have too many steps. Also, I'm not sure if you're just using Shrink to rip only, or if you're also using it to reduce the file size. Don't "shrink" if at all possible, that's what rebuilder is doing.

[hhhhbk]

roughly how long did it take you to process the videos (your time to set it up rather than pc encoding)

i find cutting tv episodes with adverts way too much hassle
tend to just wait and buy the dvd


here would be my guesses on quality loss per program

DVDDecrypter
should be no loss of quality as all your doing is pulling over file

TMPGEnc DVDAuthor
not really familiar with this
if its just a file which says to skip certain parts with adverts then there should be no loss

if it saves output without adverts as a new mpeg then quality loss will depend on whether you can direct stream copy (like you can in virtual dub with avis) in which case no loss or if you have to reencode in which case quality loss will depend on settings of mpeg2 you use

DVDShrink to rip *just* the episode
shouldnt lose quality

DVDRebuilder with the CCE encoder, to get them down to fit
will lose quality to gain your reduced filesize
loss in quality will depend on how much file is shrunk

Nero
no quality loss


if to you the still frame and the playing video look as good on edited file as original then I deem it a success


you seem to have a lot of steps
my method of choice would be to

1
rip the dvd to the hard drive using dvddecryptor

2
assuming you can open it in tmpegdvd or tmpeg xpress
just cut out adverts and encode resultant file to the corect size mpeg2 and

3
burn it with nero

its my current understanding that most players can handle raw mpeg2
if not then make some titles

[nathanaa]

Hmmm....ok, some good ideas and advice here. (First off, thanks to all).

Ok, so it sounds like I should maybe try this process -

First, start TMPGEnc DVD Author, and load the video files into TDA directly from the DVD(s). I'll need to decide if I want 2 or 3 episodes per disc *before* I start then.

Second, perform my editing to lose the commercials for each Track/episode, then put the menu I want on and have it compile the output file.

Third, run the TDA output file through DVDRB to get it down to DVD-R size.

Fourth, burn the DVDRB output file with Nero. Although, DVDRB *did* just incorporate an ISO burn mode using DVDDecrypter's burner I guess, so maybe I could try that out.

Thoughts:

1) Honestly, I never even noticed the "No Menu" option in TDA (duh). That would have saved me a lot of hassle.

2) I was NOT using DVDShrink as anything other than a tool to separate the episode from the menu I thought I had to give it. Oh, and to burn my DVD when I was done authoring it.

3) After I posted this message last night, I had the bright idea to burn my first disc to a DVD-RW. I tossed it into the player and skimmed through the DVD. The quality looks good to me, although I think I see some very faint grainyness in spots. I have a 32" TV though, so I sometimes think I see that in retail products too. So, maybe it's just my lying eyes.

4) Yeah, it's taken me a lot of time, but I figure it's a learning experience. The show I have recorded is Battlestar Galactica 2004 S1. I plan on buying it when it comes out (I own all the other BSG titles released so far, I love this show!), so this is kind of just practice for when I actually have/want to do something *important*. Plus, it's fun as it is a show I like to do, so it doesn't seem so onerous as if I was practicing with a show I *didn't* like.

Again, any further thoughts/input/advice/comments appreciated folks!