Pro and Non Pro TBC's

[aiw9800proman]

Hi all,

Im curently reading up on lots of products and im beginning to wonder if there really is a difference between a cheap consumer 'full frame tbc' and an expensive broadcast 'full frame tbc', especially if we forget all the extras like proc amp, dnr etc etc.

Surely if we take the 'full frame' tbc component on its own, without any other built on features, then they must all do the same job without much difference ?

This question does not include virtual tbc etc but is more of a comparison between say a datavideo tbc 1000 and a prime image 5011 (without all of its other controls).

Hope that makes sense ?

[gshelley61]

The biggest difference is build quality, sturdiness and reliability. The pro units are very heavy duty, designed to run 24/7 for tens of thousands of hours. They have more image control features and lots of calibration adjustments, too.

Consumer and prosumer units are light duty by nature and should be treated with some care, but they are not necessarily less high quality in the image department than pro units.

[aiw9800proman]

Thanks for the reply.

I understand the differences between build quality, life expectancy and better proc amp / adjustments but if we isolate the tbc feature on its own would it be accurate to say that there would be no real difference ?

Im asking this because I have spoken to some of the 'pro' tbc manufacturers and they all say the same thing "Tbc 100, no mate our stuff is in a completely different league and will give you much better time base correction" but I think they are referring to the fact that their units have proc amps and the tbc 1000 does not. When I ask them to talk about the time base correction function on its own as an individual feature they just keep saying "oh yes the proc amp controls will be much better than a tbc 1000".

Obviously they are not giving me a straight answer to my question which is based on tbc alone. And this is why I feel I would be wasting my time searching for a better / more accurate full frame tbc.

Replacing the time code is quite simply replacing the time code, how could it mean anything else ?

Hope im not confusing everyone

[Marvingj]

I have a Nova 810S, Prime Image S TBC also AVT-8710, Datavideo TBC-3000. I find that even though the professional models are far more solid . They tend to make the video too soft for me. The Datavideo & AVT-8710 have a better & sharp picture. Probably, LordSmurf would would have even more information, since TBC is his neck of the woods. But that my 2 cents!!1

[aiw9800proman]

Interesting,

My TBC 1000 is the worst performer for vhs pal, out of all the devices I have tried

Maybe its down to the fact that all the different microchips used have different sensitivity to analogue video ?

Are there any Full frame tbc's that have user control and adjustment over the tbc function itself ?

[wonderuss]

I use an old Panasonic wjave5 video proccesor with a built in tbc when capturing analogue pal video to my pc, even if i have complete video drop-out i still never lose a frame during capture.

[lordsmurf]

The TBC-1000 got some sour reports for a point in time, about "blue bars" and "softness" in the video, as well as some other oddities, but I often wonder if there were some lemons sold at one point, as most people, including myself and those I know, cannot see or report such instances. Strange.

[aiw9800proman]

Wonderuss,

Ive read about that unit somewhere else, but cannot remember. Whats it like for correcting jitter and tears ?

Cheers

[aiw9800proman]

but I often wonder if there were some lemons sold at one point, as most people, including myself and those I know, cannot see or report such instances. Strange.

I have ofetn thought that myself but it does seem to work well with my old hi8 camcorder and corrects jitter, dropout and audio probs. Its all very confusing and I just wish I could find TBC that had full adjustment of the TBC itself, but feel its not possible because a TBC is either 'on' or 'off'.

All this investigation just so that I can sit here watching endless hours of boring, badly made home videos

[trock]

I have the Datavideo TBC-1000 and a FOR-A 220A and I haven't noticed any significant differences between them.

[aiw9800proman]

Now this looks very interesting, also very expensive looking !

http://www.ensembledesigns.com/products/tbccontrol/index.html

Unless im reading it wrong, the user can adjust the timing of the tbc itself and then store the results for later use. Looks like a dream machine but ive probably got it all completely wrong and it has no suitable connectivity for my uses.

Oops, just realised its a controller for tbc's and not actually a tbc itself, erm i think.

[gshelley61]

I've had the opportunity to try out several pro full frame TBC's, including a FOR-A, an I.DEN, a Hotronic, a Nova, and a Feral (which is the one I kept). My JVC SR-W5U VCR also has a built-in full frame TBC. Anyway, the image does vary from unit to unit... some are sharper and more defined than others, some do a better job of preventing (and some even filter) video noise. I'd say the two with the sharpest, most detailed images are from the I.DEN unit and from the built-in TBC in my SR-W5U.

I kept the Feral because it has user adjustable aperture (sharpness, detail), coring (video noise reduction), and Y/C timing. Plus, it has 4:2:2 color sampling.

[wonderuss]

I suppose this is where i look a bit dumb as i'm not sure what those terms mean, the bonus for this unit for me though has been that such as when i was capturing an old video the other day that was constanly flickering and rolling a bit the capture was stable and fine. Obviousley any tracking fuzz that shows up on the picture would still be visable on the capture but it would be stable (if you ever recorded vhs to vhs and you had a problem like this the result would have been unwatchable) but passed through this little machine it would be fine.

[edDV]

Now this looks very interesting, also very expensive looking !

http://www.ensembledesigns.com/products/tbccontrol/index.html

Unless im reading it wrong, the user can adjust the timing of the tbc itself and then store the results for later use. Looks like a dream machine but ive probably got it all completely wrong and it has no suitable connectivity for my uses.

Oops, just realised its a controller for tbc's and not actually a tbc itself, erm i think.

This is needed in a pro environment since the actual tbc units are localed rooms to floors distant.

The pro units have the additional burden to be remotable, to time the outputs into a timed production switcher and to work with many models of pro VTR's. They also are typically 10-12 bit for internal processing. They also need analog component and various digial SDI I/O.

There is a huge opportunity for someone to make a quality consumer 10bit TBC-ProcAmp optimized for VHS (and TV tuner) to MPeg2 transfer.

[aiw9800proman]

There is a huge opportunity for someone to make a quality consumer 10bit TBC-ProcAmp optimized for VHS (and TV tuner) to MPeg2 transfer.

Yep, and I would love to have a tbc that has the following features :

Massive frame buffer.
Self diagnostics.
Constant image reading, checking and alteration via loop feed.
Self learning.
Job settings memory.
User control over ALL operating parameters.
Cropped mpeg out, DVI out, Analogue out.
No marketing BS !

Anyone got one