video skipping..is it the burner, the media, or the software

[coeng73]

I am trying to figure out why I am producing DVDs that have playback problems.

Some background first:

I use an HP DVD200e. To backup my movies, I use DVD Decryptor, DVD Shrink, and Nero. I used to use Memorex DVD+RWs to backup movies until I came to a realization one day. I was watching a movie and 3/4 of the way through it starting skipping. It was so bad, I couldn't watch the rest of the movie. I went back to my PC and re-burned it since I still had the files saved. I jumped right to the scene I was having difficulty with and it played perfectly. I did a little research on this site and found that Memorex media is garbage, and because of that I ending up purchasing the highly recommended Taiyo Yuden DVD+Rs. The first movie I nacked up played perfectly. The second started to skip 1/2 way through. I made sure I downloaded the HP 8x firmware upgrade before using the Taiyos (even though I was burning at 2.4x).


My question therefore is:
is the problem with the burner? the media, or the software?

If its the burner, I'm willing to buy a new one b/c I'm getting sick of the skipping. Is there a concensus on the most reliable burner (and media used for it) currently available?

[RottenFoxBreath]

id say a media/burner problem,as the hp(ricoh) burners,IMO arent the best,and some taiyos can be faked.lots of companies say they are,but there not,they just use teh media code.

[coeng73]

I purchased my Taiyos from rima.com. Was that a wise choice?
I actually thought they would be labeled, but they're not. How can I tell if they really are Taiyos? Any other burner (besided HP and Ricoh) to stay away from? I'm looking for another external one.

[Bodyslide]

You can use DVD Decrypter, to see what the media code is.

[westlaw]

Rima.com is a reliable source. I've ordered 1000's of Taiyo Yuden from that website.

I did have problems very similar to yours, using TYs. But I discovered that the problem was not with my disc, my software or my burner.

The problems was I had applied those Stomper Labels to my DVDs. Those labels were causing my disc to skip at the 3/4 into the movie.

Are you using any type of labels on your disc?

[coeng73]

No labels. I don't even write on them with a marker.

[westlaw]

Are you experiencing any erratic buffer activity around the 3/4 mark, when you are burning your DVDs?

[doppletwo]

Your problem could be that you need to defrag your harddrive when is the last time you defragged? Check that out. First time I got two coasters in a row it was a overly fragmented harddrive causing problems.

My story about my experience with fake TY's:

I bought fake TY's from the PC Club, but the weird thing was they weren't labeled as TY's. They were labeled as cheapo generic Dupesonic on label and VANGUARD on PC Club's sticker.

I put them in Decrypter, saw the TY's code and thought wow super cheap TY's and then I burned one and realized they were fakes, but at least PC club isn't selling them as TY's. The dye was so ugly after the burn I knew right away that they were fakes.

Is your dye ugly?

[coeng73]

Dye looks fine. No erratic buffer behavior.

Regarding defragging the HD:
I think I can rule that out since I was able to reburn the same movie (on a different disc) with the same source files. The skip was not there on the second burn (at least in the part of the movie where the skip was on the other disc). Therefore it must be the disc or the burner.

To keep myself from losing sleep over it anymore, I just ordered an NEC ND-3520 from zipzoomfly.com for $65 with free 2-day air shipping. It pains me that I paid $400 for my HP dvd200e nearly three years ago.

[lordsmurf]

My BTC burner chews up and ruins TY media. I would guess the HP may be doing the same here.

[coeng73]

Well, just finished watching my first movie since I started using the new burner (NEC ND-3520).

I had two hesitations during the movie.
The first lasted about a second, the second lasted about 5 seconds.
That puts me back at square one.

Where do I go from here?
I supposedly have a great burner and am using one of the best dvd medias (Taiyo Yuden DVD+R 8x). I am also using Nero ROM 6.

What kind of tests can I run to see if its my hard drive causing the problem? Isn't there anyway I can verify files are corrupt before burning, or while they are being burned?

[BogieV]

You never mentioned your DVD player!
My experience is that you have to include it in the game.

My LG4081B burner seem to be not very good with cheap media but it still can burn it. I have high failure rate with previosly perchaised by ignorance Princo and CMC media but the one that are error free (checked by CD speed - scan disc) have mixed compability on my Samsung 328J player (some OK, most show skips, freezes, mozaic noise).
They all play perfectly on a JVC mini-compo system though (without even a single freeze).

The good media - TYG02, MXL and +R, +RW media plays fine on my Samsung.
Check your player too! It's combination of all 3 things - burner, media and player. You have to find the right combination for you.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I think it's your DVD player,my Toshiba will hesitate occasionally at chapter points with DVDR but my Mintek doesn't.This also happens on my parents Toshiba with TY media.

[coeng73]

I have a Sony that plays DVD+R/RW and -R/RW. I forgot the model number but I'll check when I get home tonight.

Two questions:

1) What tool can I use to verify that the just-burned DVD does not have any errors on it that would cause skipping regardless of the player.

2) What media (if any) is known to have the greatest success playing amongst all DVD players?

[trossin]

Have you tried doing a record and verify when you burn the disk to see if the recorder can read back what it just wrote. I am having a similar problem but belive it is my Panasonic RV-31 that is the problem. I'm using Memorex DVD+R 4x media and use an HP 200i recorder. The disks verify fine but started skipping in the player after I had my walls replastered. Lots of plaster dust in the air for days. I put my PC in the basement. My Panasonic was upstairs under (not enough) plastic.

The last time I had this problem I found it was due to a firmware bug in the Panasonic player. Thou shall never turn on the player with the Open button. Always use the power switch. Wait for it to boot up then open the tray and the disks will play fine every time. That is until you get it all dirty inside with plaster dust!

[MOVIEGEEK]

"What tool can I use to verify that the just-burned DVD does not have any errors on it that would cause skipping regardless of the player."

Nero CD-DVD Speed
DVDInfoPro
Kprobe(Lite-On drives)

[trossin]

I use RecordNow Max and it has an option to either record or record and verify when it burns the disk. I would guess that Nero has a similar option or I don't understand why people are willing to pay so much for it. I normally skip the verify as it adds a bit of time to the process unless I'm doing a data backup disk.

[lordsmurf]

"verify" functions rarely work correctly, reporting successes when there are errors, and errors when there are none. Nero is especially bad.

[coeng73]

Here's tonight's update:

I played a burned DVD in two players: a Sony DVP-NS725P and a Sony DVP-S530D. Both hesitated at the same point in the movie and skipped ahead 16 seconds. I then put the DVD in my NEC ND-3520 (which was used to burn the disc) and played it back in Windows Media Player. It played that same segment with no hesitation or skip.

I guess that means that the skipping problem is related to my Sony DVD players.

Any suggestions on how to get rid of this problem? I am getting really sick and tired of all these compatibility issues. I just want to burn a DVD that I can play with skipping.

[coeng73]

Just thought of something else...is it the speed that I burned it at?

I never changed the default option of 16x even though the media is an 8x Taiyo Yuden DVD+R. As I understand it, Nero knows to burn it at 8x anyway.

[coeng73]

Any suggestion for different media to use in my Sony DVD players?

[winifreid]

Do a scan of the disk and see if there are a lot of errors. This isn't the end all to be all, but it may tell you if you have a burning problem. Changing the booktype may help. Look at the DVD player section of this site to see what kind of media is good for you player. If your scan does show errors, then try burning at a lower speed.

[coeng73]

I did some more investigation.

Remember how I said that the disc that was skipping in my Sony players was burned using the 16x speed selection in Nero, and someone stated that it really gets burned at 8x (because the media was an 8x DVD+R) even though Nero says its burning it at 16x? Maybe there's more to it than that.

Here's an experiment that I tried:

First I wanted to see what happened if I burned another DVD at 16x (according to Nero's dropdown selection for write speed). I wanted to see if I get skips on the new disc as the other disc did.

I got a very interesting result....

First of all, what are the odds that I would I have the same exact skip in the same exact spot (assuming that the source files were not the origin of the skipping). Slim to nil I would think. Exactly the opposite. The new disc had the same exact hesitation at the same exact spot. That to me meant it was not the media and not the burner and not the DVD player, but rather DVD decrypter or DVD Shrink or even the original source DVD.

I then continued with my experiment by making yet another copy, but this time I selected 8x in the write speed drop down menu in Nero. Guess what...no skip (at least at that point in the movie). I still have to watch the whole disc to verify if there are any skips.

Any conclusions?

[winifreid]

Even if the media is rated at 8x it is possible that the firmware on the burner can override this and burn at 16. Chances are that burning at 16x causes a skip at the point where the burner shifts into 16.

[mpack]

First of all, what are the odds that I would I have the same exact skip in the same exact spot (assuming that the source files were not the origin of the skipping). Slim to nil I would think.

Not necessarily. It does mean that whatever causes the skip is not happening randomly - it is caused by a specific event that occurs at the same point in time during the burn, on every burn for as long as you keep the significant parameter (whatever that is) the same. From your later message it looks like you've discovered that max write speed is the significant parameter, and Winifreids suggestion about the cause makes sense to me.

[coeng73]

Both answers make sense to me.

That gets me to my next question which I never really considered...why does media have a max writing speed associated with it?

Is it because the laser writes quicker at higher speeds and any media rated below the actual write speed may not be guaranteed to retain all the data that was burned?

Are there any DVD 16x media out there?

[ejai]

"verify" functions rarely work correctly, reporting successes when there are errors, and errors when there are none. Nero is especially bad.

What dvd tool could be used to verify a disk's validity?

[MOVIEGEEK]

Both answers make sense to me.

That gets me to my next question which I never really considered...why does media have a max writing speed associated with it?

Is it because the laser writes quicker at higher speeds and any media rated below the actual write speed may not be guaranteed to retain all the data that was burned?

Are there any DVD 16x media out there?

A writer uses the ATIP code to determine the speed but most modern writers can burn high quality media faster than they are rated.
16x media is hard to find but several 16x writers can burn 8x media at 12-16x.I have read some reviews where the errors were lower at 12-16x.

[coeng73]

16x media is hard to find but several 16x writers can burn 8x media at 12-16x.I have read some reviews where the errors were lower at 12-16x.

I'm interested in learning about these reviews that you read if you can remember where you found them.

[coeng73]

I just re-read the specs on the ND-3520. There's something I missed the first time around. It actually states that one of its features is that it can burn 8x media at 16x.

Why then did I get those skips? I didn't get any when I re-burned at 8x.