Selling backup dvd's

[tonyiws]

I made backups of some of my original dvds. Can I sell the originals and the backups as a set on ebay?

[bazooka]

You cannot sell the backups by law.

You would have the industry on your back.

[tonyiws]

Well, not sell them, just include them for free with the purchase of the originals.

[bazooka]

It would still be iffy because by law currently, you can't make backups.

I would hate to hear of you getting into trouble.

Fair use runs counter to the law and provides us with a means to make backups.

I would just sell the originals.

That way you stay out out earshot of the movie industry.

[yoda313]

Hello,

And you're supposed to destroy your backups once you no longer have the originals

Kevin

[Cobra]

Why would it be a problem? Everyone is allowed a backup copy - that's fair use. Does it matter who makes the backup?

I'm not saying yes or no, but I can't see what the problem is exactly.

[MrMoody]

No, you can't legally distribute copies in any way. You can't even provide a service of making backups for people of their own stuff. This has been tested in court.

However, contrary to popular belief, the DMCA does NOT prohibit you making fair use copies of encrypted material. You are still legally within your rights to do this (so far, they are still trying). The content owners just want you to think the DMCA outlaws copying encrypted material. It says nothing of the kind.

What it outlaws is manufacturing or distributing technology for breaking copy protection. Anyone who hosts or uploads DVDDecrypter in the US is breaking it. Luckily most other countries aren't so heavily influenced by large corporations.

[lordsmurf]

NO.

[bazooka]

Why would it be a problem? Everyone is allowed a backup copy - that's fair use. Does it matter who makes the backup?

I'm not saying yes or no, but I can't see what the problem is exactly.

Here in the US, it is not that simple.

In making a dvd backup, we are violating the dmca.

However, fair use runs counter to that.

[bazooka]

However, contrary to popular belief, the DMCA does NOT prohibit you making fair use copies of encrypted material. You are still legally within your rights to do this (so far, they are still trying).

Nope.

Sorry but you are misled.

They made it illegal to make backups.

This is why the dmca is garbage.

It was created to undermine fair-use.

You need to do more studying.

[northcat_8]

really ?

Huh , and here I've been selling the backups and keeping the originals....I suppose that's illegal too?

How about if I just post the ISOs on my website and charge people to download the rips...is that illegal too??

[bazooka]

really ?

Huh , and here I've been selling the backups and keeping the originals....I suppose that's illegal too?

How about if I just post the ISOs on my website and charge people to download the rips...is that illegal too??

Unfortunately yes

You would be seen in the industry's eyes as a copyright breaking inducer.

[MrMoody]

However, contrary to popular belief, the DMCA does NOT prohibit you making fair use copies of encrypted material. You are still legally within your rights to do this (so far, they are still trying).

Sorry but you are misled.

No I'm not. No one has led me anywhere; I have read the law myself. You are the one repeating hearsay. The DMCA text is available lots of places, show us where it says that. It doesn't control copying AT ALL. It only regulates TECHNOLOGY created for the purpose of copying.

[bazooka]

However, contrary to popular belief, the DMCA does NOT prohibit you making fair use copies of encrypted material. You are still legally within your rights to do this (so far, they are still trying).

Sorry but you are misled.

No I'm not. No one has led me anywhere; I have read the law myself. You are the one repeating hearsay. The DMCA text is available lots of places, show us where it says that. It doesn't control copying AT ALL. It only regulates TECHNOLOGY created for the purpose of copying.

I have read it as well grasshopper.

By controlling the means of duplication, you control the copying.

It is still illegal until ruled on by the supreme court.

[hech54]

NOBODY in their right mind would buy a known DVD Backup on Ebay if there is an original that is obtainable. The only people selling backups of material that is easily obtainable on Ebay are dirtballs lying and saying they are real by printing fancy covers and disc artwork OR using exact copies of the artwork and disc art.
Sure there are many DVDR's sold on Ebay of material never released on DVD either from TV broadcast or transfers from VHS that people WILL AND DO pay for just because they do not have the means of doing it themselves. Subtle wording of the auction is the key to NOT having your auction terminated or turned in by someone as a "copy".
There are TONS of concert DVD's on Ebay that have never been released (the band Genesis for one).....I bought one....but I knew damn well what it was (or wasn't) before I bought it....it's called common sense.
Common Sense keeps me and most people from selling or buying backups of easily obtainable Hollywood movies.....and that same common sense should be taken into consideration to sellers trying stupid shit like that.....there is no money in it.

[northcat_8]

really ?

Huh , and here I've been selling the backups and keeping the originals....I suppose that's illegal too?

How about if I just post the ISOs on my website and charge people to download the rips...is that illegal too??

Unfortunately yes

You would be seen in the industry's eyes as a copyright breaking inducer.

Well damn...but the Valenti family are my best customers

[MrMoody]

By controlling the means of duplication, you control the copying.

Controlling? It doesn't say "controlling," nor even "owning", "operating" nor "using." It says, "manufacture, import, offer to the public,
provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology" or service for breaking copy protection. Show us where it says it's illegal to own or use this stuff for yourself or stop arguing. Post the text.

"1201(c) OTHER RIGHTS, ETC., NOT AFFECTED.-(1) Nothing in this
section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to
copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title."

So it SPECIFICALLY says it does NOT affect fair use!

[bazooka]

By controlling the means of duplication, you control the copying.

Controlling? It doesn't say "controlling," nor even "owning", "operating" nor "using." It says, "manufacture, import, offer to the public,
provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology" or service for breaking copy protection. Show us where it says it's illegal to own or use this stuff for yourself or stop arguing. Post the text.

In the warning on every dvd. It is on the FBI warning label.

I am not arguing.

I am a avid reader and have been told I could have been a paralegal on copyrights.

Trust me, if you do some more research, you will find it is illegal to copy dvd's.

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/dmca_revealed.htm

By copying the dvd, you are breaking the encryption which is illegal.

[Doramius]

Honestly, MPAA & RIAA are trying to stop people from making technology to break copyrights, but it is 100% legal to make it and sell it. Thus we have VCRs, Copy & Fax machines, CD & DVD burners, and several other technologies. MPAA & RIAA (soon to be WRAMPIA) are trying to make people believe the technology is illegal. This was thrown out in a case regarding VCRs with the Sony Corp. years ago. (And just recently with KAZAA) The technology cannot be illegal. I could make my own technology and sell it. As long as I'm not violating a patent law, I can do whatever the he** I want. Your fair use follows behind that. You can make a back-up for personal use, but it is illegal to sell or distribute the copies. But people still do it on a small time basis here & there. I know garage bands that buy a single piece of sheet music and make copies for the rest of the band. That's technically illegal. Anyone going to bust them for it? Last time I went to a county fair and saw garage bands playing, the FBI didn't storm in on them. I'm sure it'd be different if they were having large, full out concerts without purchasing an agreement to do it publicly like that, they sure would get some heat for it. The Copyright is placed on the material & content within, and they cannot place laws governing the internet and technology, though they are trying extensively. They want every penny they can milk out of their product and not just the ones they earned. Technically you can make a back-up and sell the original, but you're supposedlyrequired to destroy the back up as you've passed your licensing on to another person. I doubt anyone does it. There's no law that says you can't pass the back-up with the original to the person either. However, you cannot offer the back-up with it, nor sell it to them. You basically just give them the extra disc with the original without telling the person about it, or so I believe is the thought behind it. All that is petty little arguement, for which I doubt is going to create a stakeout across from your house.

[hech54]

By controlling the means of duplication, you control the copying.

Controlling? It doesn't say "controlling," nor even "owning", "operating" nor "using." It says, "manufacture, import, offer to the public,
provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology" or service for breaking copy protection. Show us where it says it's illegal to own or use this stuff for yourself or stop arguing. Post the text.

In the warning on every dvd. It is on the FBI warning label.

I am not arguing.

I am a avid reader and have been told I could have been a paralegal on copyrights.

Trust me, if you do some more research, you will find it is illegal to copy dvd's.

I believe if you download Smartripper it has a disclaimer making you say that you are NOT from America or countries where copying DVD's is illegal?

[bazooka]

By controlling the means of duplication, you control the copying.

Controlling? It doesn't say "controlling," nor even "owning", "operating" nor "using." It says, "manufacture, import, offer to the public,
provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology" or service for breaking copy protection. Show us where it says it's illegal to own or use this stuff for yourself or stop arguing. Post the text.

In the warning on every dvd. It is on the FBI warning label.

I am not arguing.

I am a avid reader and have been told I could have been a paralegal on copyrights.

Trust me, if you do some more research, you will find it is illegal to copy dvd's.

I believe if you download Smartripper it has a disclaimer making you say that you are NOT from America or countries where copying DVD's is illegal?

Thank you.

The disclaimer is also in dvddecrypter.

[hech54]

Yep...here it is:

Disclaimer
In November, 2001 The Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York ruled that distributing tools that allow users to decrypt CSS copy protection scheme found on DVD-Video discs, is illegal.

As our site is operated from various countries and is not aimed to any particular country and/or area of the world, we don't feel it is necessary for us to remove such tools from our site.

Anyway, to avoid legal problems with U.S. administration, we have to restrict our software archive so that users from United States or from any of its territories are not allowed to download these tools.

The tool that you're now about to download is one of those that fall under this category and therefor if you're U.S. resident, you are not allowed to download this software.

This is also true for users from other countries than United States -- if you know for sure that your country has laws that prevent you from copying your own movies for your own personal use, you are not allowed to download this tool.


Do you live in United States, Germany or in any other country that has laws against distributing DeCSS or similiar tools?

[Capmaster]

I believe if you download Smartripper it has a disclaimer making you say that you are NOT from America or countries where copying DVD's is illegal?

I don't believe it's the copying itself that is illegal. I think it's cracking CSS or other encryption that's illegal.

[bazooka]

I believe if you download Smartripper it has a disclaimer making you say that you are NOT from America or countries where copying DVD's is illegal?

I don't believe it's the copying itself that is illegal. I think it's cracking CSS or other encryption that's illegal.

You are right Cap, but to make a copy you have to break the encryption thus making the act illegal.

[Capmaster]

I believe if you download Smartripper it has a disclaimer making you say that you are NOT from America or countries where copying DVD's is illegal?

I don't believe it's the copying itself that is illegal. I think it's cracking CSS or other encryption that's illegal.

You are right Cap, but to make a copy you have to break the encryption thus making the act illegal.

My point was that if you have an unencrypted commercial title, the copying itself won't get you in trouble

[Doramius]

CSS cracking is illegal because it's a security violation, or so it has been presented. Only licensed dealers are allowed to create products that can decrypt the protection. Thus making Mods to the players illegal as well. It's nothing to do with the technology itself, but the breaking of encrypted material. You can still make copies of it due to fair use. The catch is, How are you going to copy it with the encryption protection placed on the disc? Nice little loophole for Hollywood and why they were so eager to embrace the DVD technology together with the companies involved in creating the DVD format.

[Doramius]

I believe if you download Smartripper it has a disclaimer making you say that you are NOT from America or countries where copying DVD's is illegal?

I don't believe it's the copying itself that is illegal. I think it's cracking CSS or other encryption that's illegal.

You are right Cap, but to make a copy you have to break the encryption thus making the act illegal.

My point was that if you have an unencrypted commercial title, the copying itself won't get you in trouble

Does this mean, if I decrypt the disc and I can re-encrypt it, that it's no longer illegal? :P

[MrMoody]

I believe if you download Smartripper it has a disclaimer making you say that you are NOT from America or countries where copying DVD's is illegal?

I don't believe it's the copying itself that is illegal. I think it's cracking CSS or other encryption that's illegal.

Almost, but actually it's distributing the MEANS or providing the SERVICE to someone else that's illegal, not DOING it yourself.

That's why the disclaimers on software, because it's illegal for THEM to distribute it in the US. Not out of any concern for you.

[Capmaster]

I believe if you download Smartripper it has a disclaimer making you say that you are NOT from America or countries where copying DVD's is illegal?

I don't believe it's the copying itself that is illegal. I think it's cracking CSS or other encryption that's illegal.

You are right Cap, but to make a copy you have to break the encryption thus making the act illegal.

My point was that if you have an unencrypted commercial title, the copying itself won't get you in trouble

Does this mean, if I decrypt the disc and I can re-encrypt it, that it's no longer illegal? :P

No. The first time you decrypt it you break the law. It doesn't get reversed if you reencrypt it Nice try ....worth a shot though

Why hasn't someone come out with a dumb sector copier for DVDs? Just a bit-by bit copier so you could copy the protected content without breaking it, getting around the law?

[yoda313]

Hello,

Why doesn't the mpaa and riaa get together and file a class action lawsuit against everyone who owns a computer???? That way they can get to those who have the POTENTIAL to make copies!

I think they've probably tried it but weren't allowed to sue 5 year olds!

Kevin