Changing RED Color BIAS in DVD

[pcexpress-guy]

I have this DVD, which has way too much "RED" in the video. It was orginally converted from a VHS title and in the process the guy that converted it did so with too much RED. (I don't have the orginal VHS.)

So I demuxed it and would like an approach to lower the RED color bias on the video, remux it and then author a new DVD.

But before re-author, this REDness needs to go. I guess I could just really lower the RED/Color settings on the TV, but that is not something i like to do forever with this video.

Can I do this without losing much quality? I don't want to change the size that much, the video is about 4000 MB, but I could make it a little bigger if that helps video lost. (is it possiable to change the bias for this red without losing quality at all?)

At anyrate, I am not sure how to do this.

I have TMPGEnc, but not much experience in using it and not what to do with it. Should I use this ? Or some other encoder/method?

Thanks,

[lordsmurf]

A re-encode with filters would work, and TMPGENC has a good set of filters with realtime preview.

Maintain a high bitrate. While you may lose a slight amount of detail with a re-encode (gets a plastic look sometimes), it's worth it to fix bad coloring.

You can also just adjust your tv set each time you watch it. That's another obvious (but easy to overlook) option.

[pcexpress-guy]

What kind of options for the bitrate would I use? Would I use CBR or fix bit rate? what would be the rate or how would I determine this? Should I run the video through a bit calculator or something to see what it is now? Or should I just pick a number and give it a go?

Thanks!

[BJ_M]

find out the lenth and use the bitrate calc here

www.videohelp.com/calc

[lordsmurf]

What fits on the disc. In TMPGENC, I tend to use 85% CQ-VBR mode. 8000 max if 720x480, 4000-5000 max if 352x480

Again, pay attention so it fits the disc.

[pcexpress-guy]

what about the MIN bit rate settings? the video is 1HR6Min, the applet calc shows 8883 kbps 1kb=1024

in TMPGEnc, I set max at 8000 but not sure about min value 4000? 6000? The values in calc, does it mean I can do 8883 CBR for the time for this disk and it will fit on dvd5?

Thanks!

[pcexpress-guy]

Its actually 1HR29Min... I am trying CQ_VBR /w 8000Max, & 4000Min... as values

Thanks!

[jimmalenko]

IMO if your target bitrate is 7500+, just do CBR.

[pcexpress-guy]

using CQ_VBR it predicts it will take 28 hrs to render!? Is CBR faster?

[lordsmurf]

You must have some bad settings. See this:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/convert/tmpgenc/tmpgencplus.htm

Should not be ANYWHERE near that long.

[jimmalenko]

using CQ_VBR it predicts it will take 28 hrs to render!? Is CBR faster?

The prediction is always up the shit to start with. CBR is quicker I think (it certainly should be).

EDIT: I've listed a couple of tips for increasing TMPGEnc's speed here. YMMV.

[pcexpress-guy]

I think the slowness is coming from the two filters in use. The simple color correction and noise reduction. Does that explantion jive with anyone elses experience?

btw, I changed the checked the environment settings.

[lordsmurf]

NR might do it, depending on the level. Also, disable "high quality" mode (worthless)

[jimmalenko]

I think the slowness is coming from the two filters in use. The simple color correction and noise reduction. Does that explantion jive with anyone elses experience?

Yep. NR adds heaps of time. Even 20-1-20. What are your settings ?

[pcexpress-guy]

not sure about the settings for NR, but it is the default. 6% after 1Hr 50Min

[jimmalenko]

FYI:

Convolution3D is an AVISynth filter that you can apply through scripting, and is much, much faster than TMPGEnc's inbuilt NR filter.

If time is an issue, it might pay to read up on this.

[pcexpress-guy]

NR might do it, depending on the level. Also, disable "high quality" mode (worthless)

Man, I think I have this thing enabled... I am not 100% sure, but I think it is cranked up

The current render is at 10% now, is it worth killing the current render, turning "very high quality " mode off, then restarting the render? (time is not a really big deal as quality to me is more important, but on theother hand it will take a day of this rendering to make it work, so maybe I should kill the current render? What do you think? is this the reason why it is soo slow? (besides the "very High quality" mode being enabled NR, and color filters are being used.)

AVISynth, I tried to find GUIDES that were good enough on how to use this scripting tool, but I could never seem to find that good grade of info that would make the thing work. (And as such, I was never able to make it work right for me ) KNow of any good guides?

I do NOT know of any good basic guides for AVIsynth, or Convolution3d? (is that the name for it?)

Thanks Much!!

10% after almost 3Hr.

[jimmalenko]

High quality is mode is probably only gonna save you 2-4 hours IMO, so is trashing 3 hours of encoding worth a saving of two hours ? I think it'll probably end up finishing at around the same time, so you may as well leave it going IMO.

As for convolution3D, There's a guide by FulciLives that utilises it, but like you, I struggled to find snippets of information - you really need to piece the snippets together. That guide is great for AVI sources, but for MPEG-2 you have to tweak a bit. You'll probably need to run your MPEG-2 file through DVD2AVI to produce a d2v file, and you'll need to get a hold of Mpeg2dec3.dll and Convolution3d.dll and put them in your Avisynth\plugins directory.

A starting script could be something like the following:

# 1. Load plugins
LoadPlugin("Convolution3d.dll") 
LoadPlugin("Mpeg2dec3.dll")
#
# 2. Define MPEG-2 source
MPEG2Source("D:\movies\your_d2v_file.d2v") 
#
# 3. a) Convert to YUY2 colorspace - interlaced
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
#
# 3. b) Convert to YUY2 colorspace - progressive
#ConvertToYUY2()
#
# 4. a) Apply Convolution3D for interlaced material
SeparateFields() 
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D (0, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0) 
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D (0, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0) 
Interleave(evn,odd) 
Weave()
#
# 4. b) Apply Convolution3D for progressive material
#Convolution3D (0, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0) 
#
# 5. For Top Field First Video (for Bottom Field First, nothing is required)
#DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()
#
# 6. Resize if necessary
#LanczosResize(352,480) 
#
# 7. a) If outputting to TMPGEnc and interlaced
ConvertToRGB(interlaced=true)
#
# 7. b) If outputting to TMPGEnc and progressive
#ConvertToRGB()

The above script should be OK for interlaced MPEG-2 sources. If you have progressive, you'll need to put a # next to each interlaced command and remove the # for each progressive command. Where there's an a) & b) means you have to do one or the other at all times.

Hopefully someone who is better versed with AVISynth can proof this code

[pcexpress-guy]

Thanks! I will have to figure out AVISynth one day. Scripting frame/serving this sort of thing would be helpful.

I also had GOP problem with the video, so I fixed it using DVD-lab pro before I atempted to render using TMPGEnc colors and NR filters.

[pcexpress-guy]

If I use CQ VBR and change the min limit, will this change the quality of the video? or If I change the max limit, will this have a bigger effect on the video quality?

Right now... with the present settings... The video is at about 20% done and I think its gonna be bigger then DVD5 will handle. The movie is 1.5 Hrs aprx. and it seems to be growing as I re-render this with the needed filters.

The average bit/rate for the video before re-render was 6400. I had set CQ_VBR limits as 4000 Min, and 7500 Max. (or is it 8000 Max?) anyway should I get worried? Should I just let this render complete?

@ 20% the size is 927,000+ Kbytes plus audio.

[lordsmurf]

The min will never dip below a certain point. Put in 0 in most encoder, 1000 in TMPGENC, and let the encoder decide what is best for a minimum. That's how you maximize compression. Use bitrate when needed, less when not.

The word is "encode". You may tend to confuse people with "render", which is incorrect for video (that's a CG animation term).

1GB at 20% is probably too big for a DVD.
You have about 4.2GB of space (safely), and you need to keep it under 3.99GB if on a FAT32 hard drive.

And if it's only one disc, and you don't want to spend time on it, you can always pay a service to do that one for you.

[pcexpress-guy]

I am at 48% with the "encode" and the file size is 2.2GB... You think I will get lucky with this size ? Probably not, right?

I am using xp NTFS filesystem so no problem with large file sizes.

lets say the encode is too big. I have settings of 4000 and 8000 (or 7500?, I forget)... what new settings should I try next. I am trying to maximize quality on one Dvd disk.

(thanks for pointing the difference between encode&render)