3 movies on one dvd with a menu?

[belveder]

I recently was told that it is possible to backup three movies onto one 4.7 gig DVD with a menu for choosing the movie you want to watch and with virtually no quality loss.

Is this really possible and if so, how would you do it?

Thanks for any advice

[ZippyP.]

Using 1/2 DVD resolution (352x480 NTSC) you can get up to 5 hours on a DVD in pretty good quality. So if your three movies can fit in that time then it's possible.

Here's how I would do it (there's lots of different methods and tools):

First rip the DVD's to the hard drive with Smartripper.
Frameserve the video using DVD2Avi.
Encode to the proper bitrate and resolution with TMPGEnc.
Author and burn the new DVD with TMPGEnc DVD Author.

Look in the guides, or click on the name of each tool above and you will get a list of the guides associated with them.

Good luck.

PS, There is always quality loss when you convert, especially when the resolution is cut in half. Someone is exaggerating.

[belveder]

Thanks heaps for that advice, very appreciated and easier than I imagined lol. Excuse my ignorance though but does that mean once you have burned it that it would not be proper dvd? I mean like would the sound still be the same as dvd etc?

[jimmalenko]

You could get it to the point where unless you had a George Lucas-style THX sound system, you wouldn't know the difference.

Can I also suggest that if you are only going to be watching these on a normal TV, you could try VCD res (352 X 240 for NTSC or 352 X 288 for PAL). The reason I suggest this is that for 5 hours, you can use a combined audio + video bitrate of 2000, so if you choose 256kbps audio, you can use around 1740kbps for video and still have about 60MB to play with to design your own menu. 1/2 D1 @ 1740 will look pretty ordinary IMO, whereas for VCD res it will look quite good. You are basically letting your TV do all the work resizing.

[ZippyP.]

..does that mean once you have burned it that it would not be proper dvd? I mean like would the sound still be the same as dvd etc?

It will be a proper DVD, although not as high a quality as a commercial DVD in video or audio.

[ZippyP.]

1/2 D1 @ 1740 will look pretty ordinary IMO.

If the video bitrate drops below 2,200 kbps for 1/2 D1 then I would use 2-pass VBR and use the calculated bitrate as the average. It takes twice as long to encode but it's the only way to go to get more on a disk while maintaining quality.

[belveder]

Thanks for all this, have just done the SmartRipper & DVD2AVI process, just about to do the TMPGEnc process, this part worries me, so many options lol

[jimmalenko]

1/2 D1 @ 1740 will look pretty ordinary IMO.

If the video bitrate drops below 2,200 kbps for 1/2 D1 then I would use 2-pass VBR and use the calculated bitrate as the average. It takes twice as long to encode but it's the only way to go to get more on a disk while maintaining quality.

Good point. My rule of thumb for 2-Pass VBR is to take whatever the bitrate calculator tells me I need as my average, average * 0.5 for my min, and average * 1.5 for my max. What do you think, ZippyP ?

[steptoe]

You can also do it the transcode way :

Check out my guide here, which is for 2 movies per DVD with a menu, but adding another movie is simply a case of repeating one step again

http://www.thescrapyard.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/files/video/Fitting%202%20movies%20on%20o...Method%201.htm

This method basically is copying just the movies, and the squeezing them down to fit onto a single DVD



I'm currently working on a better guide, using other software to improve the end result, with less steps and less time between steps

[indolikaa]

I do this with MPEG-1 DVDs from time to time. I use LordSmurf's settings at digitalfaq.com and play with the final bitrate. VCD at the higher DVD-allowed bitrate looks very nice in most cases.

[DereX888]

I did it to move all my CVD movies to DVDs.
Since CVD is actually D2 DVD (DVD half resolution) all I needed was just to upsample 44.1kHz sound to 48kHz on those first CVDs I made when ATI AIW couldnt capture with 48kHz sound...
You can fit 3 movies this way.
If disc authoring goes over 4.3GB I just use DVD2One.

You can also fit *tons* of VCDs on a DVD if you wanna do a bit of work.
If you reencode your existing MPEG-1 CBR videos you have on VCDs to VBR MPEG-2 (setting i.e. min=100 max=1150 - there is no need for more bitrate since VCD's bitrate is 1150kbps) then you may be able to fit much more VCDs than if you would have kept their original CBR bitrate

[jimmalenko]

If you reencode your existing MPEG-1 CBR videos you have on VCDs to VBR MPEG-2 (setting i.e. min=100 max=1150 - there is no need for more bitrate since VCD's bitrate is 1150kbps) then you may be able to fit much more VCDs than if you would have kept their original CBR bitrate

I gather from this that you would set your average to 600-650 kbps ?

I don't think this would be very wise. VCD is at best, passable quality, but to re-encode it to effectively 650 kbps ? The original was 1150 CBR, which is much much different to 2-Pass VBR with a max of 1150. I fail to see how you can not lose any quality. You may as well just leave them at VCD spec and upsample the audio either manually or by letting your authoring program do it for you. You still get 7-7.5 hours on a DVD this way at VCD quality.

[DereX888]

I fail to see how you can not lose any quality. You may as well just leave them at VCD spec and upsample the audio

Do you know whats the difference between VBR multipass and CBR?
Try it before you pass any judgement
Even 2-pass with TMPEG already may save you lots of space, it all depends how much high-motion scenes you have there.

Ive put entire Birds of Prey VCD series on a single DVD-R this way, with audio lowered to 160kbps. No visible difference from 'original' VCDs, except for very last episode which I had to re-reencode again because I was 50MB over the size of DVD-R, but had I did it more 'proper' way I would have just reencode all end credits at lower bitrate than the episodes (or just cut them even) and it would have fit no sweat, I was just too lazy.

[Sam Ontario]

I recently was told that it is possible to backup three movies onto one 4.7 gig DVD with a menu for choosing the movie you want to watch and with virtually no quality loss.

Is this really possible and if so, how would you do it?

Thanks for any advice

If your movies are on tapes with total running time less than 4 hours, non-expert's advice - buy a DVD+RW recorder. Record the 1st movie then stop, the recorder will create a menu for you with a thumnail on the +RW disc. Then 2nd movie and stop, the menu now has 2 thumb nails ... etc. You can have many thumbnails to direct you to the part you want to play on the +RW disc.

If your movies are longer than 4 hours, then you lost quality with 6-hour mode.

With a recorder you lost all the funs and frustrations when learning how to make a DVD, but save you time.

[jimmalenko]

I fail to see how you can not lose any quality. You may as well just leave them at VCD spec and upsample the audio

Do you know whats the difference between VBR multipass and CBR?

Does a bear shit in the woods ? A simple search of my post history would have yielded you that answer.

Try it before you pass any judgement
Even 2-pass with TMPEG already may save you lots of space, it all depends how much high-motion scenes you have there.

I have tried it, by the way. There is no possible way that 2-pass VBR min 100 ave 650 max 1150 can give the same quality as CBR 1150. No way. As for perception to they eye, that's another story. Theoretically, not possible I'm afraid. 2-pass VBR at these settings will closely resemble CBR 800. Nowhere near CBR 1150.

[ZippyP.]

. My rule of thumb for 2-Pass VBR is to take whatever the bitrate calculator tells me I need as my average, average * 0.5 for my min, and average * 1.5 for my max. What do you think, ZippyP ?

I just set the min near zero and the max very high. So say 500 min and 8000 max. No sense restricting the encoder, and if it is smart enough it will properly allocate the bitrate. My experience has been fine and I really don't know if it would be much different from your results.

[jimmalenko]

I just set the min near zero and the max very high. So say 500 min and 8000 max. No sense restricting the encoder, and if it is smart enough it will properly allocate the bitrate. My experience has been fine and I really don't know if it would be much different from your results.

OK. I was interested in your opinion cause I know that you know your shit.

[ZippyP.]

There is no possible way that 2-pass VBR min 100 ave 650 max 1150 can give the same quality as CBR 1150.

I would agree. And VCD res. mpegs with bitrates higher than the VCD standard look much better, like indolikaa pointed out. Why cram so much on an disk? To each his own.

As for bitrate, again, why limit the bitrate of the encoder? A max of 2500 might be better for the above.

[DereX888]

jimmalenko:

Do you know whats the difference between VBR multipass and CBR?

Does a bear shit in the woods ? A simple search of my post history would have yielded you that answer.

what a rude mofo ROTFL!
How about a simple yes/no instead of asking me to check your post history? Perhaps in this case I should check your doctor's orders too, seems like you've forgotten your rabies pill today or somethin :P

There is no possible way that 2-pass VBR min 100 ave 650 max 1150 can give the same quality as CBR 1150

where the f**k you get that 650kbps average from, again? Certainly not from me. Scroll up and check, don't forget the pill before next reply )
Then try avg 900, min 100, max 1150, 4 passes, and see the difference in file sizes and is there any visible quality difference.

BTW - you gotta know shit to talk about it. Just sniffing what others have dropped ain't enough :P

[jimmalenko]

jimmalenko:

Do you know whats the difference between VBR multipass and CBR?

Does a bear shit in the woods ? A simple search of my post history would have yielded you that answer.

what a rude mofo ROTFL!
How about a simple yes/no instead of asking me to check your post history? Perhaps in this case I should check your doctor's orders too, seems like you've forgotten your rabies pill today or somethin :P

There is no possible way that 2-pass VBR min 100 ave 650 max 1150 can give the same quality as CBR 1150

where the f**k you get that 650kbps average from, again? Certainly not from me. Scroll up and check, don't forget the pill before next reply )
Then try avg 900, min 100, max 1150, 4 passes, and see the difference in file sizes and is there any visible quality difference.

BTW - you gotta know shit to talk about it. Just sniffing what others have dropped ain't enough :P

That is laughable. A post history would soon tell you if I'm full of shit or not.

I assumed 650 ave because it's halfway between and that is generally the setting a lot of people use. my bad and I apologize

IMO, 4 passes is overkill and a waste of time at these bitrates, especially when you are only doing it to fit 9 hours onto a DVD instead of 7½. Given the cost of blank media versus the time you'll spend encoding, I'd rather just buy another DVD and experience a bit better quality. That is only my opinion though.

Whatever works for you I guess. I gather you're watching them on a 34cm TV then ?

Back to the question at hand, as shown by the heated discussion, yes it is possible to put three movies onto a DVD, and there are a myriad of ways to do it. However, there will be a loss of quality and only the beerholder can determine if that quality drop is acceptable to them or not. I stick to my first comment on the matter:

Can I also suggest that if you are only going to be watching these on a normal TV, you could try VCD res (352 X 240 for NTSC or 352 X 288 for PAL). The reason I suggest this is that for 5 hours, you can use a combined audio + video bitrate of 2000, so if you choose 256kbps audio, you can use around 1740kbps for video and still have about 60MB to play with to design your own menu. 1/2 D1 @ 1740 will look pretty ordinary IMO, whereas for VCD res it will look quite good. You are basically letting your TV do all the work resizing.

[DereX888]

jimmalenko:

IMO, 4 passes is overkill and a waste of time at these bitrates

I gather you're watching them on a 34cm TV then ?

True, it is overkill, you probably save just few bytes only at last pass IMO.
I would just burn VCDs as VCDs, or if I have to make VCD-DVD then just upsample sound and put them on as many DVD-Rs it takes. I dont like fiddling with things when its obvious there is nothing to gain in the outcome. Waste of time it is - I agree.
But I did it once for someone who wanted it this way, and the quality is the same as it is on 'original' CBR VCD, on any size tv you want to compare these two on, so you missed here.
And BTW you missed there too: there are no 34cm standard TVs, closest would be 13'' tv which is 33cm IIRC...

[jimmalenko]

But I did it once for someone who wanted it this way, and the quality is the same as it is on 'original' CBR VCD, on any size tv you want to compare these two on, so you missed here.

Even on a projector ? I think not. Even DVDs shrunk to less than 85% look poor on my mate's projector.

And BTW you missed there too: there are no 34cm standard TVs, closest would be 13'' tv which is 33cm IIRC...

Here in Oz where we use the metric system, 34cm TVs are available - or that's how they're marketed anyway. There's 34, 51, 68, & 80 cm TVs readily available at any electrical retailer.

[DereX888]

Here in Oz where we use the metric system, 34cm TVs are available - or that's how they're marketed anyway. There's 34, 51, 68, & 80 cm TVs readily available at any electrical retailer.

Something must have changed, last time i was there (years ago tho) all the TVs were labeled in inches at the store, I remember it well - I've made a joke about metric country with imperial tv screens.

[jimmalenko]

Here in Oz where we use the metric system, 34cm TVs are available - or that's how they're marketed anyway. There's 34, 51, 68, & 80 cm TVs readily available at any electrical retailer.

Something must have changed, last time i was there (years ago tho) all the TVs were labeled in inches at the store, I remember it well - I've made a joke about metric country with imperial tv screens.

No biggie

To go completely off topic, what's the latest with your cricket team over there ? Have the "rebel" players been reinstated yet ?

[lordsmurf]

If you re-encode, use proper deinterlace (adaptive variations), and the drop to 352x240 MPEG2 with VBR and 2/0 AC3, you'll be okay. Easily fit 2-3 movies.

Indolikaa, try MPEG2 in MMC 8.x with same MPEG1 specs, but alter to VBR on good system ... you may like that better (MPEG2 drops field, MPEG1 blends in MMC 8.x), smaller fiels from VBR ... Im still playing with this