ADS Pyro AV Link...please respond if you have one

[Coluph]

I cannot get this unit to work properly capturing VHS tapes.

I have tried several tapes of different sources...they all do it.
I have tried a DVD and Laserdisk, and they do not do it.

Problem. Drops frames every so often, then picks up again. Does not matter what kind of tape you use...I have tried everythign from something recorded off TV, to a BRAND NEW just taken out of the package store bought VHS tape. Any time you get anwhere you have edited the tape (on tv taped ones...used a flyign erase deck you dont' see it when watching) or a scene that has a bright flash...ie a camera flash or lightening, it quits for about 20 to 30 frames them picks up again.

I have tried the tapes in four different VCR's. It will do it everytime on the same scene of the show regardless of what machine it's playing in.

I have looked in a few other forums and this seems to be a common problem with this unit. Is this normal, or is my unit defective. If you have one of these...does yours do this? What are you using as a source? What kind of VCR do you have? Are you using a Time Base Corrector? What cables are you using (svhs or RCA)

I really need to know if I am wasting my time with this or not. ADS has offered to RMA the unit but I do not want to go through the hassle if I am going to get a replacement that does the exact same thing. I bought this unit for the sole purpose of converting my VHS collection to DVD. If I cannot use it for this I need to return it.

One other question:

The three lights on the front of the box...On yours, when you are capturing analog...does the blue stay on or off. Is the blue light the same brightness as the red and green or is it dim.

If the unit truly is defective I would love to get a workign one, as the capture I did off of the laserdisk was absolutely stunning, but if I have to have a perfect signal going into it, for it to capture...it's absolutely useless for what I want to do.

If you have one of these, I would really appreciate it if you take the few minutes to answer the questions above.

Thanks

[Roundabout]

Do you have the Rev. A, B, or C unit? Check the bottom to see. Then take a look at this thread (link below) and you may want to ask Tommyknocker how his is doing with his ( you can post in that thread) or ask "johnpr98" who just joined this forum, he's the "go-to" guy on this unit. He runs a couple of forums about these ADS products and knows a lot about them. You can ask him or PM him to find out more about your problem. I have one myself but haven't been able to use it yet as my PC is too slow for capping and it is always busy doing other things. Otherwise, I'd tell you what my experience has been, but I don't have any practical usage of this A/V Link yet. In a few weeks I will be using it as soon as I can get my new PC built.
Hopefully those guys can give you some ideas. Take a look here:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187207

[Coluph]

Mine is the revision C unit...

I will give them a try...I really would like this to work. I just don't want to be dissapointed again if a replacement comes and it still does the same thing.

[Roundabout]

If you want to ask John Price directly if he can help, you can go to this forum (and also read other posts about questions on this unit). Maybe he can help you on there.

Click here: http://www.creativecow.net/index.php?forumid=22

[FulciLives]

Well it sounds like the ADS Pyro AV Link does not like a less-than-perfect "clean" video source.

Why do I say this?

Because you only get dropped frames from VHS but not higher quality DVD or LaserDisc captures.

The solution?

If you want to continue using the ADS Pyro AV Link then you will need to get a TBC which is short for Time Base Corrector.

Most TBC devices are very expensive but there are two popular choices for us normal people ...

The AVT-8710 is $179 and can be purchased from the AV TOOLBOX website.

The other is the DataVideo TBC-1000 which is around $300 and can be purchased from a variety of on-line websites such as THE ELECTRONIC MAILBOX

The other possible solution would be to buy a S-VHS VCR (JVC being most popular) that has a TBC built-in ... but as LordSmurf says ... although such units tend to help ... they may still need a stand alone TBC such as the two mentioned above since the built-in TBC is not as effective overall as a stand alone TBC unit.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Coluph]

OK...DEEP BREATH...Frustration setting in again. I will appolgize now, this is not directed at anyone or any product in particular but there are not words to describe how frustrating it is to spend months trying to find a product that will do what you need PROPERLY, and fail at ever attempt you make to find one.

IS there any surefire way I can tell if this thing is faulty or not???

PLEASE! Someone MUST know this?! I am not the only one out there with this product!!

I don't want to exchange it, get another one, it does the same thing and I am now stuck with a $300 POS that doesn't work. I've been scammed too many times by shoddy computer hardware companies before. (any product that keeps having revision changes and new drivers every 2 weeks indicates that maybe this company didn't test their product very well before releaseing it!)

ANYWAY.....

The PYRO advertises on the box, ANY analog source...if this type of device needs a time base corrector to do 80% of the video tapes out there, WHY don't they include one with the unit, and put the price up a little. THIS is a consumer product, not a proffessional studio level product, and it's not like you can run down to the corner store and pick up a TBC on a whim.

The most expensive VCR you can buy in any electronics store around here does not have a TBC in it, and goes for $150. I can't even FIND a VCR with a TBC in it. Not to mention...

CAMCORDER HAS A TBC IN IT..UNIT DOES THE SAME THING!

This is what I don't get:

pyro av link $269 cdn
dvd-r $150 cdn
tbc $300 cdn
$719 cdn (are you nuts?!)

I'm still not getting the answers to the questions I asked when I started this thread:

WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE?
WHAT BRAND OF VCR ARE YOU USING?
DOES YOUR BLUE DIGITAL LIGHT APPEAR DIM COMPARED TO OTHER LEDs?
DO YOU USE A TBC???

I guess in conclusion what I really REALLY need to know...if I return this to ADS, get another one, will I be gauranteed its going to work???

If you have one of these...does your unit do any of the below???

(and PLEASE do not respond with 'obvious' fixes that you can find by reading the manual...I have read that thing three times cover to cover...its' not my dip switches, it's not my computer, its not my cables, it's not my vcr, and it's not my tapes (they play just fine on the TV)

Below is the tests I've done:

Test 1

Equipment:

AV Link
JVC HR-VP628U VHS VCR (Higher end VHS unit with flying erase)
*No computer connected to A/V Link for this test.


Hookup
RCA -> AV Link -> Television via rca cable - noisey black and white picture
RCA -> AV Link -> Television via SVHS cable - clear picture but black and white

Tape BASF EQ Source of tape Digital Sattelite
Picture on output television is primarily now black and white, with a few bands of colour. Preview televsion has perfect colour from VCR.

Tape Pre-recorded Store Tape (new)
Picture on output television is black and white. Preview television has perfect colour from VCR

Source from TV Tuner from VCR
Picture on output televsion is colour. Preview television is colour. Source will take about 10 - 20 seconds to show up on output television.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test 2

Equipment Used
Pioneer DVL-700 DVD/LD Player
AV Link
Computer:
ABit NF7S Motherboard (Nforce2 Chipset)
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton Core
1 Gig Dual DDR Memory
Seagate 7200 RPM 80 gig hard drive
Windows XP Professional
Firewire via onboard NForce Firewire port
Software used WinDV

Laserdisc player via RCA cable -> A/V Link -> Computer

Result - Working properly. No dropped frames

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test 3

Equipment Used
Sony TRV65 Hi8XR camcorder. (Built in TBC, flying erase)
AV Link
Computer:
ABit NF7S Motherboard (Nforce2 Chipset)
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton Core
1 Gig Dual DDR Memory
Seagate 7200 RPM 80 gig hard drive
Windows XP Professional
Firewire via onboard NForce Firewire port
Software used WinDV and Ulead

Camera via SVHS - AV Link - Computer

Source Tape Fuji Hi8 MP footage from camera
Drops frames whenever there is a camera flash, or edit in the tape.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test 4

Equipment Used
JVC HR-VP629U VHS (flying erase)
Mitsubishi H03 VHS
Goldstar (Hitachi) VHS RC90-M (flying erase)
AV Link
Computer:
ABit NF7S Motherboard (Nforce2 Chipset)
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton Core
1 Gig Dual DDR Memory
Seagate 7200 RPM 80 gig hard drive
Windows XP Professional
Firewire via onboard NForce Firewire port
Software used - WinDV and Ulead

Tape source
Pre-recorded store bought tape - new from package
Drops frames when a bright flash occurs in a scene (lightning)
Colour is ok
Frames will drop at the same scene regardless of which VCR it is being played in
Example dv capture file at http://orwin.scritch.com/video

Home taped programming from TV source will drop frames more frequently and at edits.
Very few tapes will not drop frames. (I have not found a single tape I own yet that captures perfectly...I have over 400 video tapes)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes:

Blue Digital LED is extremely dim, compared to other lights on unit. Unsure if this is normal
All USB devices have been disconnected from system. Hard drive is defragmented. All background software is closed or disabled. Very little software installed in computer other than video editing software (Vegas, TMPG, VirtualDub, Dart Pro) etc

[dun4cheap]

Well I did some experimenting for you and here are my preliminary reports. I took an old Disney movie The Rescuers Down Under, it was an old tape I bought used from block buster for my kids. I am currently using Studio 8 full and have recorded 20 minutes using my Pyro AV link without any dropped frames and macrovision was defeated via the Pyro Link. I am currently using the Rev. B settings. The blue light appears to be dim but it is really not on. When the digital light is on, usually when you have a DV camcorder plugged into the ilink or firewire port on the device and press the button the Blue light will illuminate as bright as the red light. I have my pyro link hooked up to my Panasonic TV and Sony Combo DVD player and VCR. The ADS Pyro is then hooked up via my ATI DV Wonder FireWire card.

I used studio 8 to encode to mpg2 in real time, decent quality, no dropped frames. I also did one with my Daughter when she was in 4th grade doing a speech. 0 Dropped frames.

I will tell you this though my first unit was a (A) revision and I experienced similiar problems with dropped frames at the same point everytime on a particuliar video. I took it back to Circuit City where I purchased it $110 and exchanged it. Luckily I got a Rev B at this time. Tried the same video again where it failed over 10 attempts and it worked perfect 3 times in a row on that same video. The particuliar video was from a home dvd I and unfortunately lost the original source video.

[aiw9800proman]

All I have done so far is to ask questions on this forum and now im going to give a reply to another thread.

My experience with many external devices and in particular av to dv converters has been bad, all av to dv devices that I have used have resulted in dropped frames, regardless of system power.

The only devices / cards that I have had any success with are the ATI cards. They have given me no dropped frames at all but im struggling with 'overall' quality.

I have some VERY expensive external av to dv converters and they all exhibit the same problem 'dropped frames' regardless of system speed / power.

Im utterly convinced its a vhs specific problem and the proof is with a very very old ati card that outperforms ALL external av to dv devices I have tried.

These include :

ADS USB to DVD
All but the most recent canopus products.
Dazzle
Belkin
Pinnacle
Formac

And god knows how many more.

Not sure if this is of any use to you and I dont know if your standard is ntsc or pal ??

Regards

M

[aiw9800proman]

I forgot to mention that I have used ALL 'ads' products and they ALL gave me dropped frames. Including the pyro.

The reason I mentioned the 'usb to dvd' products is because I personally think they have awful drivers which need a lot of work.

M

[dun4cheap]

Well I went a captured the hole vhs movie The Rescuers Down Under in studio 8. No dropped frames, made dvd in studio 8 and it plays fine. If I were you I would take yours back and get a new one.

[Coluph]

OK, well this is giving me a bit to go on...now I did try a few more tapes...I'm getting baffled more.

Ducktales the Movie - worked except for the very beginning where it's going 'feature presentation' (who cares)

Popples - (tape that came with the plush toy) No go

Copy of Care Bears story book, recorded on an old Mono VCR. WORKS!

Once Upon a Forest - 10 mins...working

Ducktailes Raiders of the Lost harp - Nope

Care Bears in Wonderland (Laserdisc) Working (currently capturing)

So maybe my particular unit is a little too sensitive?
I guess a TBC would help for really old tapes?

Now general question with a TBC... I've tried recording problem tapes to my camcord with a built in TBC and it does not fix the problem. I'm guessing the TBC is used when playing back...not while recording...would this make sense?

Also...if so many products do have TBC's in them...like the high end DVD Recorders, Camcorders...etc...why do they cost so much to by on their own?

[Coluph]

Also, with the idea of all analog to dv captures....

Does anyone have much expereince trying it through a regular old DV camcorder with DV out? What about that new Pioneer DVD Recorder with DV in/out ?

If this type of problem happens with these types of devices...I guess a TBC truly is the only solution (once I get a unit that isn't so touchy)

I really wish there was a way to try one before putting out that kind of money for one.

As for capture cards...they do work...sortof...but the quality on those, I'm just not impressed with. The hardware systems are the only ones I've seen with my own eyes that deliver a video that doesn't look like it came out of a computer.

I'm sure the AIW does an 'ok' job, but if it's only OK, I may as well just stick to watching the video tapes.

[YngwieJM]

I had the SAME EXACT PROBLEM! Know what I did to fix it? I returned it to Circuit City and bought a Canopus ADVC-100. I had high hopes for the Pyro but was instantly dissapointed. I dropped 32-33 frames every minute or so even after: reformatting my capture drive, disabling hardware that wasn't in use, using VHS tapes that had only been played 1 or 2 times, using 3 different S-VHS VCRs to capture from, switching firewire cards with my wife's computer, switching all cables, composite cable, s-video cable, EVERYTHING. The Canopus has been FLAWLESS! I've captured several hours from VHS (some truly horrible sources too!) and I have not dropped 1 SINGLE frame!! Do yourself a favor and dump the Pyro!

[Roundabout]

Do yourself a favor and dump the Pyro!

Maybe good advice, but I'd at least wait till you get an answer on the Creative Cow forum from John, I noticed you posted a message on there but he hasn't responded yet. Maybe you'll hear from him tomorrow, a weekday. Also you can call ADS directly and talk to a tech there on the 800 number to see if they have any suggestions. I've noticed that some people have a lot of problems, some people seem to have none at all with this unit. I wonder what accounts for the different experiences that people have? Is it a problem inherent in the unit's design, just some defective units, or a incompatibility problem with certain PC's configurations? We may never know...

[Coluph]

I'm thinking that just returning it is going to have to be the option...by the looks of it this is another device that is not quite there yet.

I'll try to find somewhere I can get the Canopus...maybe I can get one at their head office...will be in that area in a few weeks anyway.

It's really too bad this doesn't work...I had such high hopes for it.

[Roundabout]

It's really too bad this doesn't work...I had such high hopes for it.

Well, if you return it and want to get the Canopus you don't have to look very far, there are a number of sellers on Ebay that have it for about $250.00 - here's one for $258.00 with free shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2976701323&category=21166
I don't doubt the Canopus works well, (it should, it costs quite a bit more than the A/V Link and Datavision unit) there have been many good reviews of it on this site and not many negative comments at all (if any). Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[pbanders]

I have the ADS, 90+% of my capturing has been from my Tivo and LD player, very little from VHS. All has been perfect (100+ hours) with no dropped frames. I have a rev. C unit. I'll test more of my VHS tapes and see if the issue arises. I have a SVHS JVC VCR, so I may be benefiting from it in terms of the timebase issue.

[Coluph]

Well, I just hope the place takes it back now. They have to check with their supplier, as they usually only RMA. (I think I am going to get screwed by the store I bought it from...hope they don't do this or I'll never be going back there) I really do not think this is my fault that ADS makes a product that shows a VCR connected to the unit on the box, and states 'any analog video source', yet when you do this it doesn't work properly. If it stated 'requires a TBC' I wouldn't have bought it! I $30 TV Tuner card can capture video, why can't a $250 one?

Right now I'm feeling pretty ripped off, and sure hope its a refund not an RMA because I have pretty much lost all confidence and respect for ADS at this point, seeing how many other people on other forums are having the exact same problem.

Funny how so many people on these boards were sayign this thing was so fantastic until the day after I bought one and now everyone is having this problem. I wish people would test things a little better before raving about products so much.

I'm not sure I should try a Canopus...that will be worse to return than the Pyro if it doesn't work.

[Roundabout]

Coluph,

Where did you buy the unit? And how long ago?
Most stores are reputable and will take back a product that doesn't work properly and either replace it with a new one or give your money back. If you bought it online, though, it could be a different story. If you bought it online, where did you get it? Some online retailers have a better reputation for taking care of customers than others. Most should be reasonable if you speak to their customer service reps and explain the situation. Unforunately, not all of them are, though.

[Coluph]

It was at a very small localized retailer. I did order it off their site but picked it up in person to save the shipping charges. They were the only place within an hour drive I could find that would get it. Canopus has two dealers here, both charge absolutely rediculous prices, ($200 more than what you can get it for everywhere else) so I did not go that route. From what I heard on here the ADS was supposively good.

They get the unit from Ingram Micro, who deals with ADS. So it looks like it's going to be dependant on what Ingram does, if I get a refund on it or not. I'd get the Canopus from the same place if they'd sell it, but they don't.

I bought the unit on the 30th, so I didn't even have it a week, and returned it absolutely mint in the box. The person I was talking to was very nice about it but, I'm going to have to drive another hour back there to either get a refund or replacement, and right now I have no unit at all.

So I guess it's just a waiting game...annoying because I have a video I needed to get done before a trip out of town in a week.

[Roundabout]

Ingram Micro is a huge wholesaler that supplies products to a large range of companies, a few years ago when I bought my laptop, I got it from Onvia.com, but they got it from (and shipped from) Ingram. Maybe since they are a large co. they'll take care of it. I think it would be up to the arrangement that your local co. has with them would be the deciding factor. They should have already known when you went there if they would refund or replace your unit. Strange that they didn't. Anyway, if you really want your money back, the only thing I can say is, if they don't want to do it, make a big noise. Talk to supervisor, etc. and if you've bought from them before, mention that. Sometimes it helps. Also mention that you recommend friends to their outfit but may reconsider if they don't take care of customer service issues when they arise.

[pbanders]

Just making a guess here, but I'd wager the problem is an incompatibility problem with the ADS and particular 1394 cards.

[FulciLives]

Just making a guess here, but I'd wager the problem is an incompatibility problem with the ADS and particular 1394 cards.

That doesn't explain why a clean source such as a LaserDisc has no capture problems where as a less-than-steller source like VHS has problems.

Sounds like it is very sensitive (as some capture devices are) to a poor signal requireing a TBC to use it with such poor signals.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dstrege8]

I too continue to have the same problem with ADS Pyro. However, I have "0" dropped frames recorded using various capture software. Yet the avi file jumps and has pixelated green frames every few seconds. I can see ADS capture and watch it stop... and go on. NO DROPPED FRAMES, but video obviously jumps.

I also have the "compatible" ADS firewire card I purchased at the same time. Surely ADS products are compatible with other ADS products?

From what I'm hearing here, I guess I'm stuck with dragging the Pyro back. Thought I had done such a great job of investigating before purchasing.

My next guess will be the Canopus. I have investigated that also. But, obviously investigating these products doesn't help!

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

[Roundabout]

I hope I don't have the same problem that others are having when I eventually get mine hooked up and tested. If so...

Hello, Ebay!

At least I only paid $110.00 for it, so I might get most of what I paid for it back on resale. It's been too long to return it to CC anyway, and they only have a 14 day return policy for taking it back.

[Coluph]

I just thought I'd add to the forum here, there have been posts about people having this same problem more and more over on creativecow forums. By the looks of it ADS has now acknowledged there is a problem with the unit and is researching a fix, but does not expect to have one for a month or two at least. By the sounds of other posts, they are recommending people return the unit, if they do not wish to wait.

Good luck. (I'm definately needing it my retailer is terrible when it comes to returns...still fighting with them)

[Roundabout]

Coluph,

Let us know what happens, whether they take the unit back or replace it with a hopefully updated/repaired model. It will be interesting for everyone, so please let us know when you find out.

Thanks. R.

[pbanders]

OK, forget my earlier comments about 1394 card incompatibilities, I experienced the same problem today when experimenting with various VHS tapes. I was getting a 33 frame drop about ever five minutes, it almost looks like a cummulative timing error that eventually causes the ADS to glitch for about a second. .....(edited)... no, scratch that. I recorded the same segment several times, with different starting points (e.g. so that a cummulative error would cause the glitch point to change). The glitch (33 frame drop) was in the same point on the tape each time. It's a specific frame or dropout that is causing the problem.

I have a rev. C unit. My unit has been 100% flawless in recording from my Tivo and LD players, and also from my DVD when I've tried it - I only see problems when recording from VHS. I have a JVC SVHS player. Not much of a problem for me - I don't use VHS for a source for the most part, but if I did, this would render the unit useless to me. Too bad, it's a nice unit and much cheaper than the ADVC-100, but that's still the gold standard.

[pbanders]

Did some more experiementing. On tapes that I recorded with the same JVC SVHS player that I'm now using for playback/capture, I get no dropped frames after even 15 minutes ..... while I was writing this, at 16 minutes, the damn thing dropped 33 frames. Oh, well, even stuff recorded on the same player isn't immune to this problem.

[Coluph]

It really is too bad the unit has this flaw. It would be fantastic otherwise. I dealer agreed today to give me a refund (no fault of theirs, explained they have been crazy since the christmas holiday) I do hope for those that have the unit allready that ADS does fine a solution soon. Both times I called tech support they were quite helpful, so I think once this problem is fixed, the A/V Link will be a very nice product.

Unfortunately for me I'll probably be seeking out the Canopus ADVC-100. I'm wondering if anyone would know a good place to purcahse this...does any major retailer like Circuit City, Frys, Best Buy etc stock it?) I'm going to be travelling down to the San Jose area, and figured I would pick one up while I was visiting the USA.

I haven't heard from Canopus when I emailed them so I am assuming their office in San Jose won't sell one to me if I go there, and probably would cost more anyway.

I would prefer to avoid anymore online retailers at the moment if I can help it, seeing the past experiences....

And I do hope that the claims that the Canopus does work properly is true...it didn't fair to well with the ADS product unfortunately, and I really don't want to go through all this again.

I guess I can end this and say the pyro a/v link is a good product if you are not using it for VHS tapes, or have a pro-grade VCR or TBC. If they get a fix for it it will likely be comparable to the Canopus. What it did capture, looked really nice.