Problem adding the 3:2 Pulldown

[jimcgr]

Hi,

I hope someone can help me because I'm about to get crazy here! I made a few mpeg2 movies with TMPGEnc so far using these settings:

FPS: 23.976 FPS ( int. 29.97 )
Mode: 3:2 pulldown when playback.

For some reason today it has decided to drive me nuts and when I play back the movies it is a bit jerky. Just a bit but still it has always been perfect. I read a few post and found out that TMPEnc 3:2 pulldown was supposed to be buggy and that the way to go was to use the pulldown.exe utility.

So I did my first m2v file leaving the FPS to 23.97 and Encoding Mode to non-int. It gave me this file:
http://www.filedex.org/pulldown/laporte601.m2v
Of course it is just a sample but you can see that it plays perfectly smooth with no weird (lost frames) effect. I play the files using PowerDVD.

Now when I run that file into pulldown.exe it makes just the same thing as with TMPGEnc and it becomes a bit jerky. See:
http://www.filedex.org/pulldown/laporte601_pd.m2v
If you got "the eye", you'll notice that now, every seconds, a few frames are skipped.

Can someone download the first file and try to apply the 3:2 pulldown to it and tell me the way to do it without making it become jerky?

Thanks a lot for you help!

[SLK001]

Can someone download the first file and try to apply the 3:2 pulldown to it and tell me the way to do it without making it become jerky?

No, but if you give us the options that you used in PULLDOWN, maybe we can decypher your problem.

PULLDOWN cannot cause you to loose any frames, so maybe your problem lies elsewhere.

[jimcgr]

Hi,

I didn't check any of the option from the GUI: PullDownBatchFE. When it lauched the command line exe the only thing it wrote was something like "applying 3:2 pulldown". I don't think it did anything else.

Thanks for you help!

[jimcgr]

I would also like to try with another Mpeg2 Encoder. Can some recommand a good Mpeg2 Encoder that can add the 3:2 pulldown like TMPGEnc ? Please not CCE or any really expensive solution

[FulciLives]

I would also like to try with another Mpeg2 Encoder. Can some recommand a good Mpeg2 Encoder that can add the 3:2 pulldown like TMPGEnc ? Please not CCE or any really expensive solution

The problem is not TMPGEnc but your source files. There is no 3-2 pulldown problem with TMPGEnc.

If it is JERKY then chances are you don't really have a progressive video OR you are incorrectly forcing it to progressive.

Switching to another encoder will not solve your problem.

Please note that not all NTSC video footage can be made progressive 23.976fps with 3-2 pulldown especially shot-on-video stuff.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FOO]

What was the source ?
You may have wrong field order.

[jimcgr]

Well my source has always been the same, season 5 & 6 from Stargate SG-1 DVDs I bought from France in Europe.

I have always been doing the same thing without any problem but now... What I do in detail is this (for the video part of course):

I rip an episode with DVD Decrypter, then I run dvd2avi using those params:

Video/iDCT = 32 bit
Video/Field Op = None
Video/ColorSpace = RGB
YUV -> RGB = PC Scale

Then I create this AVS file:

LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC3.dll")
mpeg2source("myfile.d2v")
AssumeFPS(23.976)
LanczosResize(720,480)

Then I load this AVS file into TMPGEnc to create a "ES (Video only)" "stream type" using those parameters:

Video/Stream type = Mpeg-2 Video
Video/Size = 720x480
Video/Aspect ratio = 16:9 Display
Video/Frame rate = 23.976 fps (internally 29.97 fps)
Video/Rate control mode = 2-pass VBR (6000,8000,2000)
Video/VBV buffer size = 0 (automatic)
Video/Profile = MP@ML
Video/Video format = NTSC
Video/Encode mode = 3:2 pulldown when playback
Video/YUV format = 4:2:0
Video/DC component precision: 10 bits
Video/Motion search precision: Highest quality

Advanced/Video source setting = Non-Interlace (progressive)
Advanced/Field order = Bottom field first (field B)
Advanced/Source aspact ratio = 16:9 625 line (PAL)
Advanced/Video arrange Method = Full screen

GOP/Gop structure = IBPBPBPBPB
GOP/# of I pic = 1
GOP/# of P pic = 4
GOP/# of B pic = 1
GOP/Output int. of seq header = 1
GOP/Max num of framers = 15
GOP/Output bitstream fo edit = not checked
GOP/Detect Scene change = checked
GOP/Force picture type setting = not checked

Quantize matrix/Quantize matrix = Default
Quantize matrix/Output YUV data as Basic... = not checked
Quantize matrix/Use floating point DCT = checked
Quantize matrix/No motion search = not checked
Quantize matrix/Soften block noise = not checked

I don't know if you guys can see anything wrong. I'm quite sure this is the "recipe" I used for my first 2 or 3 episodes but now this doesn't seems to work well anymore. It must be me I guess...

Thanks again for your help!

[FulciLives]

The method you are using really only works good when the source is PROGRESSIVE ... also with the method you are using ... you need to check the option that says, "DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION" and then you need to adjust the audio to match the new video.

HOWEVER ...

There is another method for doing PAL to NTSC when the source is not PROGRESSIVE that works rather well.

If you want to read about it ... read this THREAD:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160433

Good Luck

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

*** EDIT ***
The method you are using might work ok if you check that "DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION" option in TMPGEnc. This will make the video longer than the PAL video and requires you to change the audio (which can be done with BeSweet). Still though IF ... and I stress IF the original DVD is not PROGRESSIVE then the other method (Xesdeeni's SmoothDeinterlacer AviSynth AVS script) is the better method.

*** EDIT NUMBER 2 ***
OK I just realized you used AssumeFPS (23.976fps) in your AviSynth script so since you did that you do NOT have to check mark the "DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION" option. So you actually are doing everything correct ASSUMING the source is PROGRESSIVE. Since it is NOT working then my guess is your source must be INTERLACED. In which case use Xesdeeni's SmoothDeinterlacer method.

*** EDIT NUMBER 3 ***
Well I don't know where my mind is tonight hehehe

For the input you said you used 16x9 PAL
Why?
You AviSynth script is changing the frame size and fps to NTSC spec. So you should be selecting NTSC for the input. If the original is 16x9 then use 16x9 NTSC 525 line as the input.

OK I'm done ... if I *do* happen to think of more stuff I'll just start up another post this editing is getting ridiculas now

[FOO]

I dunno why you are using bottom field first

[jimcgr]

About the source aspect ratio, you were right, i changed it from:

Advanced/Source aspact ratio = 16:9 625 line (PAL)
to:
Advanced/Source aspact ratio = 16:9 525 line (NTSC)

My mistake! Yes source was progressive, not interlaced.

As for why I use bottom field first well I'm 95% sure that it is how it was encoded.

Now this said, I found my problem and it was really not what I was thinking... The problem was with PowerDVD! For some reason, when playing my 3:2 media files (.m2v) directly with PowerDVD it doesn't play smooth! But if I author and then I play the DVD files from my drive it plays ok. I should have tried this right at the beginning. I also tried to burn and it plays fine on my one dvd player.

Thanks all for your help!

[TheDJ®]

I've had similar problems, but to be honest i am not that upto date with DVD conversions.

I recently tried an avi to mpeg2 (dvd) @ 23.976fps using CCE, then used pulldown after, and for some reason pulldown changed the fps to 29.970? I definately chose 23.976fps in CCE, i duno why Tmpgenc author authored at 29.970fps?

Also: How can u tell if source is progressive or interlaced?

I still havent perfected the DVD's, PAL DVD's come out fine (coz i'm probably in PAL land), but NTSC's are a nightmare for me at the moment. (Both my DVD player and TV are PAL/NTSC compatable).

Any help would be appreciated!

thx in advance.

TheDJ®

[FulciLives]

I've had similar problems, but to be honest i am not that upto date with DVD conversions.

I recently tried an avi to mpeg2 (dvd) @ 23.976fps using CCE, then used pulldown after, and for some reason pulldown changed the fps to 29.970? I definately chose 23.976fps in CCE, i duno why Tmpgenc author authored at 29.970fps?

Well that is correct. Adding pulldown to a 23.976fps video makes it 29.970fps for playblack. Actually the video is still 23.976fps but has "flags" in it now that tells the DVD player to play it back at 29.970fps since that is how NTSC video works (unless you have a progressive scan DVD player hooked up to a progressive scan TV display).

Also: How can u tell if source is progressive or interlaced?

Well depends on your source. If it is a DivX/Xvid you downloaded and it is 23.976fps then it is PROGRESSIVE. If you are ripping a NTSC DVD in order to re-encode it for back-up (i.e., DVD9 to DVD5) then run the VOB files through DVD2AVI and it will tell you (and if it is PROGESSIVE you use FORCED FILM option otherwise you don't).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[TheDJ®]

Thanks for the info!