23.976fps -> 29.97fps Subtitles

[JackDudd]

Hi,

I've got an 23,976fps Xvid movie with *.sub subtitling wich works ok..

Now I have converted this movie into MPEG2 for DVD authoring which had to be 29,97fps so it's a standard... I did this with TMPGEnc

Next I converted the *.sub file to *.ssa with SuDix so I could use it for DVDmaestro. I used MaestroBST to convert the *.ssa file to the *.son standard which DVDmaestro uses. I set timing to 23,976 in and 23,976 out..

I authored the DVD, but when I play it in me DVDplayer the subtitles are off; in the beginning it's about 1 second too late, but later in the movie the delay is greater.

Can anyone help me out here so the subtitling is right. I already tried to use another timing in maestroBST -> I set the "out" timing to 29,97 with drop frame, but when I do that the subtitling is way too soon....

The strange part for me is that it does work out ok with the xvid version, but I can't get the DVD right...

PLz help me out

[adam]

Well my guess is that you didn't convert to 29.97fps correctly, but just make things easier on yourself and keep it 23.976fps. This is perfectly compatible with the DVD standard, it is in fact the framerate that almost all commercial NTSC DVDs use. You need to add pulldown flags in order to make it compliant though. You can do this by enabling the 3:2 pulldown while playback option on the video tab of TMPGenc, or a better way is to take your encoded video stream and run it through pulldown.exe. Try keeping it at its native framerate and see if the subs sync now. You will also get significantly higher quality by using this framerate as well.

[JackDudd]

Ah yes, I'll try this. I used inversed telecine instead, but your option sounds better...

So i just turn 3:2 pulldown on then and set the framerate to 29,97fps??

[JackDudd]

OK I tried TMPGEnc en turned pulldown on and set the framerate to 29,97fps, but now the video is al jerky and had interlace effects...

When I leave it at 23,976fps I don't think DVDMaestro will allow it as a video stream...

[edit]
OMG! I think I used the wrong tab
[/edit]

[adam]

You are supposed to leave the framerate at 23.976fps in TMPGenc, and turn the 3:2 pulldown on. Both of these settings are on the video tab. Never use the 3:2 pulldown option on the advanced tab. Alternatively you can just encode in 23.976fps and then run the video stream through pulldown.exe afterwards.

I can guarantee that Maestro will accept a 23.976fps video stream as long as there are 3:2 pulldown flags intact. I can pretty much guarantee than any DVD authoring program will do the same, since it is the preferred way to make an NTSC DVD.

[JackDudd]

Well that didn't work out quite well Now the video stream is a bit jerky every few seconds and the subs are going off-sync later in the movie

I didn't convert the subs to 29,97 fps tho...

I'll gues my next bet is just frameserving the movie with subtitles in it. Not selectable anymore, but maybe this will work out for me. I guess I'll have to use the "inverse telecine" technique now, cua of the jerkyness that seems to appear after 3:2 pulldown...

I could try pulldown.exe as well, but the GUI seems to be missing and if it doesn't work I'll have to encode AGAIN

Thanks for your help so far adam

[adam]

TMPGenc's 3:2 pulldown feature is buggy, so like I said I really suggest using pulldown.exe. The GUI is available all over the place, but you can always just use it from the command line. Actually, if all you need to do is add pulldown flags then just drag and drop your video stream onto the .exe file. Let it do its thing, then check at c:\ for a new file and then import that one into your authoring software.

An inverse telecine is when you convert 29.97fps to 23.976fps. A telecine is when you do the opposite. Again I STRONGLY suggest you do not do this. The quality will be significantly worse, you will introduce the possibility for a whole new set of problems regarding interlacing, and it will require you to re-encode yet again. If you have a 23.976fps encoded m2v file than just use pulldown.exe. It takes maybe 5 mins and assuming you encoded correctly, any authoring package will accept it.

[JackDudd]

Ok you sound really convincing and I will try the pulldown program then, I didn't know about the buggyness of 3:2 pulldown in tmgpenc...

I'll encode the stream tonight en will run it through pulldown.exe. I'll let you know what happens

One thing: in maestroBST, what do I set the timing to? The subtitling is meant for 23,976fps...

[JackDudd]

Finally... so far it seems the DVDR is working perfectly, THANK YOU!!