Jerky play with DVD(MPEG2) capture/conversion?? Ulead

[MachineMan]

When I capture my DV (firewire) to MPEG2 (DVD NTSC 16:9 9Mbs Field A) the resulting captured video file play is jerky. When I capture to AVI (type-2)its fine but when I render to same settings MPEG2 (DVD NTSC 16:9 9Mbs Field A) it becomes jerky again? I have tried Field order B with no luck.

This happens when rendered to or captured to MPEG2 with Ulead MediaStudio 7 and/or VideoStuio7, I tried both. Whats the problem?? It didn't exist last month. Could I have accidentally chaged the codec or something that Ulead uses??? If so then how do I fix it.

A couple of weeks ago I installed the Ulead Movie Factory 2.12 upgrade, could this have messed with all installed Ulead programs?

[MachineMan]

Jerky playback update:

Desired rendered output:
MPEG2 (DVD NTSC 16:9, 9Mbs, Field A, interlaced, mpeg Audio )

Tested:
Capture DV to AVI, Play raw captured AVI file, OK
Capture DV to mpeg2, Play captured mpeg2, Bad
Capture DV to AVI, Edit/Render to mpeg2, Bad
Capture DV to AVI, Edit/Render to AVI file, OK
Capture DV to AVI, Edit/Render to VCD file, OK
Capture DV to AVI, Edit/Render to mpeg2, field order B, Bad
Capture DV to AVI, Edit/Render to mpeg2, 4:3 aspect ratio, Bad
Capture DV to AVI, Edit/Render to mpeg2, LCPM Audio, Bad

Anything to do with MPEG2 is bad????? AVI and MPEG1 work fine.

[ronnylov]

I remember that when I edited DV Video with Ulead Media Studo Pro 6.5 I had to set field order to A in the Ulead software, but I encoded the rendered video with TMPGEnc and field order bottom field first and it worked. By some reason the transitions became jumpy if I set Ulead Mediastudio Pro to field order B.

I suggest you try the same. Edit your DV files and save in DV format but set field order A in Ulead software. Then encode with an external encoder like TMPGEncPlus and use field order B- bottom field first. It sound like a bad idea but it worked for me, I guess the field order setting in Ulead Media Studio Pro was wrong somehow.

[Gees]

Yes. That's right. Ulead software calls fields the reverse of most every other program out there. Just had to be different, I guess. :c)

Always check the properties of any files in Ulead and duplicate what it has indicated for fields.

[MachineMan]

Yes, I have heard this reversed Field order issue before. However I have made several movies by captureing DV to mpeg2 Field order "A" and render to mpeg2 field order "A" with out any problems until recently.

I re-installed MediaStudio7 and things got better but not perfect. I think there are some incorrect settings somewhere.

[FOO]

All this stuff only works if all the programs in the processing
chain agree and there's a way to tell the next program in
line what the situation is.
I have found that both requirements fail regularly.

1.Are "Top Field" and "Odd field" and " Field A" the same ? Who knows
2. Is there a method to store field info in an AVI ? Not always

[FulciLives]

Twice now you mentioned outputing to MPEG-2 at 16x9 but in my experience it is very rare that you can catpure 16x9 because what else is 16x9 but a 16x9 DVD and perhaps a HDTV broadcast (which I assume would be changed to 4:3 with the step-down NTSC converter unless you can control that ... don't know since I don't have HDTV broadcasts).

So my guess is you are capturing something at 4:3 widescreen and trying to make it 16x9 widescreen and perhaps somehow screwing up the field order in doing so.

For instance to turn 4:3 into 16x9 you need to clip 60 off the top and bottom then stretch to 720x480

It is easy to screw up the field order though if you don't cut by an even number such as 61 off the top and 61 or maybe the image is perfectly centered so you are trying to cut more from the top than the bottom or vice versa and not getting the numbers correct (must be even numbers).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Specialist]

Some general observations:

1. For those using OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 capture cards: You should adjust your project settings to comply with FIELD ORDER A (LOWER FIELD FIRST);

2. For those recording video with Panasonic player/recorders (or DVD disc camcorders): You should adjust your project settings to comply with FIELD ORDER B (UPPER FIELD FIRST);

3. For those who capture video with analog capture cards: Adjust your project settings to comply with FIELD ORDER B (UPPER FIELD FIRST).

The correct FIELD ORDER choice hinges entirely on the capture (or recording) device.

Also remember to adjust not only the project settings of your video *editor* - but also to adjust the project settings of your disc authoring application.

Hope this helps,

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[FulciLives]

Some general observations:

1. For those using OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 capture cards: You should adjust your project settings to comply with FIELD ORDER A (LOWER FIELD FIRST);

2. For those recording video with Panasonic player/recorders (or DVD disc camcorders): You should adjust your project settings to comply with FIELD ORDER B (UPPER FIELD FIRST);

3. For those who capture video with analog capture cards: Adjust your project settings to comply with FIELD ORDER B (UPPER FIELD FIRST).

Also remember to adjust not ony the project settings of your video *editor* - but also to adjust the project settings of your disc authoring application.

Hope this helps,

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Only in the world of ULEAD would FIELD A be bottom and FIELD B be top. Like what gives with that? No wonder there is confusion !!!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FOO]

3. For those who capture video with analog capture cards: Adjust your project settings to comply with FIELD ORDER B (UPPER FIELD FIRST).

Anybody that would call the first field in a sequence "B" instead of
"A" is brain damaged.

[MachineMan]

"1. For those using OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 capture cards: You should adjust your project settings to comply with FIELD ORDER A (LOWER FIELD FIRST)"

Yes, this what I'am doing. It always used to work.



"

So my guess is you are capturing something at 4:3 widescreen and trying to make it 16x9 widescreen and perhaps somehow screwing up the field order in doing so. "

Yes, This is the case when I capture AVI the Render to 16:9 MPEG2. However when I captured directly to MPEG2 I set it to DVD NTSC 16:9. This is the first time I tried to make a 16:9 DVD and I probably have something wrong. I eventually got it to work but not sure how.

Iam using MovieFactory2.12 to Author with out conversion.

So any comments on the best way to capture-edit-render to 16x9DVD. Using MediaStudio7. I just got a widescreen TV.

Would it be:
1. CaptureDV to AVI - Edit/render to MPEG2 16x9 Field order A
2. CaptureDV to MPEG2 16x9 Field order A - Edit/smartrender to same settings.


I have had great success with method#2 when doing 4:3. However I think that there might be some confusion with MediaStudio when the initial "project settings" to not match the "create Video File" output settings. Although I would think that the output setting would overide all.

[Specialist]

For those in this thread who claim Field A shouldn't also be called LOWER FIELD FIRST - in my personal opinion you really need to do some more reading.

Lower Field First = FIELD A is a common broadcast engineering reference - even if software manufacturers disagree amongst themselves about this topic.

John Jackman's Web site features a simple explanation of FIELDS on the page at the following link...

http://www.greatdv.com/video/fields.htm

As John states:

"DV formats ALWAYS use field 1 dominance -- LOWER FIELD FIRST!"

Avid and Adobe argue it's the other way around.

I - personally - don't really care a great deal as long as I just choose the correct setting for the software in question.

Regards,

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[FOO]

John claims the "first" field is "A" so "second" field is "B"
He claims the "Upper" field is "odd" so "Lower" field is "even"
He claims "lower" field is "1" so "upper" is ????
We still dont know whether the "upper" field is "0" or "2"
and we don't know that "first" is "upper"
and no mention of "top" and "bottom"
...and no mentiun of John's credentials. It is clear he's not accustomed
to being precise.

We have 6 different field naming systems here. I will order them
the way I consider most sensible. (I have no credentials either)

First Second
Upper Lower
Top Bottom
Odd Even
0 1
A B

John seems to imply that Ulead has it backwards

[Specialist]

Quote from Avid's Web site:

"Some programs (and previous versions of Avid Media Composer) use the incorrect term field dominance when referring to field ordering."

So this quote from Avid suggests there has been some past confusion - even within the Avid organization - about this topic.

As I mentioned earlier, I personally don't care about the technical details.

I only care about the setting that works correctly so I can edit my video.

Jackman is correct about DV .avi video and capture using OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 cards.

Such cards specify "lower field first" in Adobe software.

Such cards specify "Field Order A" in Ulead software. (Jackman says FIELD 1.)

Panasonic player/recorders specify FIELD B in Ulead software.

Most analog capture devices specify FIELD B in Ulead software.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[MachineMan]

Yes,
Specialist , you are correct. I have been using Field order "A" with Ulead with out problems through Firewire capture. I only had problems when I attempted 16x9 aspect ratio but Iam not sure what the issue was. I will re-investigate agian next time I try.

[neo]

I am having the same problem as I use WinDV for capture, ULead for Editing, and TMPGen for encoding (compression) from AVI to MPEG-2.

[Gees]

I am having the same problem as I use WinDV for capture, ULead for Editing, and TMPGen for encoding (compression) from AVI to MPEG-2.

Did you find this through the reply in your other thread? Just do the reverse in tmpgenc and test in PowerDVD before commiting to disc.