Newbie: Timeslip and "Chasing Playback"

[nextlife1]

I'm sure this question is easy for experienced folks but in all my reading I can't seem to get a complete answer. I am interested in the Panasonic players and their DVD-RAM formats because of the timeslip and chasing playback features. Specifically, the ability to come home half-way through a game, watch it while still recoding the rest, pausing from time to time, etc. My question is this: Can all of these type features be accomplished with a DVD recorder that has an integrated hard drive or does one really need DVD-RAM to do this? And are there any features along these lines that DVD-RAM really offers that are unique? I'm not talking about all the editing or compatibility issues which I understand, but really just the playback features.

Thanks very much!!

[Yvon]

This has been discussed before on this forum.
Go to page 2, and look for "For anyone interested: my comparison of home DVD recorders".

Yvon

[nextlife1]

Thank you. I had actually already read this string in its entirety but still could not understand the answer regarding a hard disk. I see the debate about DVD+RW being able to do this now or in the future but still don't understand if a HDD can accomplish the same thing. Sorry for being so dense!!!

[nextlife1]

Yvon;

In response to your reply I followed one of the links and read about the Pioneer DVR-510H DVD with DVD-R/RW and DVD-RAM along with a 80 gb hard drive. This would seem to have everything I am looking for. Can folks comment on this versus one of the recent Panasonic models? Any reason not to go with the Pioneer?

Thanks!

[Yvon]

[Yvon]

I don't think the Pioneer 510 has RAM.
As it is not yet on the market, do not expect answers soon.
Have a look at the following:

http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/dvr510/index.htm

Yvon

[Roll Tide]

nextlife1,
I have a Panasonic DMR-E80H, and to answer your original question, you can use time slip on either the DVD-RAM drive or the Hard Drive. This is essential two recorders in one box. It will record to either DVD-RAM or HDD, either of which will allow you to use time slip, because they have random access capability. The only exception on my recorder is that you cannot use timeslip while recording to DVD-R.

I don't know if there is an exact answer to your question, because you seem to want to know if you have to have a recorder with DVD-RAM to do time slipping. You do not strictly have to have DVD-RAM to time slip, however the only DVD recorders I am aware of with time slip capability have DVD-RAM!

The big advantage of having DVD-RAM and HDD in the same unit is the ability to move programs back adn forth between the drives, edit commercials/other content out, and burn to DVD-R. I highly recommend a unit like this if you don't want to go the more tedious PC route. I personally do both and while the standalone recorders aren't perfect, they're not half bad - I wouldn't give mine up!

Hope this helps.

[nextlife1]

Roll Tide;

This answer is enormously helpful--thanks very much. What still confuses me some it that on non-Panasonic brands with integrated hard drives you see absolutely no mention of time slip like features. That has made me always think it couldn't be done without DVD-RAM but perhaps it is because it is of less interest to most people so it is just not mentioned? And curious as well because the new Pioneers mentioned in the previous post above (Pioneer DVR-510H) make a big deal about having timeslip capabilities with DVD-RW and HDD, but other players with these don't mention it. Perhaps it's a speed issue discussed in one of the forums.

With respect to your comments about editing, is the main advantage to the Panasonics that both the HDD AND DVD-RAM have random access, making editing easier, whereas a unit like the Pioneer, even if it has timeslip, does not have 2 drives with random access? Otherwise it would seem that a unit like the Pioneer might be better because DVD-RW is more widely compatible than DVD-RAM, and in addition, I have read the strings about the software authoring issues with the Panasonic.

Thanks for your answers and your patience with this "novice".

nextlife1

[handyguy]

Thats cause they don't use DVD-RAM. DVD-RAM has double the data rate of dvd-r, what that means is you can do two things to it at the same time, which is what timeslip is. No can do that with dvd-r

[Yvon]

Specifications of the Pioneer DVR-510H:
Yvon
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Pioneer DVR-510H launched at the 2003 CES in Las Vegas is one of Pioneer's first DVD recorders to have a built in hard disk drive for short term storage/editing

Pioneer DVR-510
Built in 80GB HDD for up to 102 hours of recording time and time shifting
Time shifting feature on 2x certified DVD-RW media to allow simultaneous playback and recording
4x copying from HDD to 4x DVD-R and 2x copying to 2x DVD-RW
Minidisc style Non-linear editing erase/combine/undo etc (DVD-RW VR Mode & HDD Only)
Plays pre-recorded DVD's & CD's
10-bit / 54 MHz video DAC, combined with a high quality 192kHz / 24bit audio DAC
TBC (Time Base Corrector) LSI for efficient jitter-free, high quality recording
VR mode support 'Disc Timer Recording' This allows time settings to be stored on the disc
Records on DVD-RW & DVD-R Video Blank Media
Can make discs that will play in most existing DVD players (Requires Video mode and finalization)
Firewire (i-link) DV input/output for connection to a camera or PC (To output to a PC the recordings must have been your own)
NICAM PAL TV Tuner built in with Videoplus+ & PDC with one month / 8 event timer
Uses the single layer 4.7GB DVD-RW (ReWritable) System
Records in real-time using MPEGII compression-Up to 6 hours per DVD-RW disc
Quick recording function automatically finds the blank part of the disc
Variable Data rate and variable resolution settings
2 Channel Dolby Digital Encoding
Disc navigation thumbnail chapter view
Store timer settings on individual discs
SR control terminal
Component video output with progressive scan
VBR recording on all recording video mode and VR
Audio record level
NTSC/PAL Recording
Time Slip Chasing Playback
Includes MP3 and WMA playback for CD-R with on-screen navigator
Jpeg Photo Viewer for Kodak CD and Fuji Colour CD compatible
*
Supporting Products

DISCS FOR THE DVR-510

(1x Speed) DVD-R 4.7GB


(1x Speed) DVD-RW 4.7GB

[Gil T Pleasure]

The new Pioneer units that have Time Slip capabilities on DVD-RW can only do so in VR mode. So even though -RW is more compatible than -RAM, not a lot of DVD players can read -RW recorded in VR mode.

[nextlife1]

Thanks for the reply and the information. I guess one could use only the HDD for recording when using time slip was important, and subsequently transfer anything wanted "for keeps" to DVD-R or DVD-RW (in "non-VR" mode). Am I correct in assuming that the number of DVD players that can read DVD-RW in VR mode may be only slightly more than the number that can read DVD-RAM? And can I assume that the timeslip feature works exactly the same when recording to the HDD as it does when using DVD-RAM or -RW in VR mode? If that is the case it probably doesn't matter to me.

One other question on the Pioneers--I have seen some press releases mentioning other models (-610HS and -710HS) to be released in November that have even larger HDDs (160GB) [http://www.InvestmentsMagazine.com/ManageArticle.asp?c=70&a=5244] and and [http://www.pioneer.co.jp/press/release123.html]. Are these just for the Japaneses market or will they be available in the US? The -710HS also mentions DVD-RAM.

THanks.[/url]

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[nextlife1]

From the information I have been given these models are Japanese specific and the announcements relate only to that market. They may be released elsewhere in which case your regional Pioneer website will carry the press release at that time

That's too bad since from what I understand these units are starting to have pretty large size HDDs (? 160GB).

So given your answer is there any reason to go with a Panasonic over a Pioneer? I am assuming that some of the -R authoring/compatibility problems wtih the Panasonic I have read about still exist..............

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn