Downloading movie files

[kwack]

I cuurently use Limewire to download files etc.

How is it that files come up that are say 700mb in size proclaim to be the full film when it is much larger on teh actual DVD itself


Or are they telling porkies

Kwack

[housepig]

because most of them will use Divx or Xvid compression, which is compressed more than mpeg-2 compression on dvds.

I would suggest you take a close look at the Forum rules the next time you post.

[iooi]

Do NOT give warez.
Do NOT link to warez .
Do NOT ask for warez.
Do NOT provide information how to obtain warez.
Do NOT advocate warez.
Warez includes pirate/bootleg movies(movies that are not yet released on DVD or VHS).

Niceties out of the way...
For a start the files will be compressed either by zipping or raring or even taring. Also you will only get the main film not any the extras or different languages.

[FOO]

Housepig ? What's a porkie ?
Thought you might have a clue

[housepig]

Housepig ? What's a porkie ?
Thought you might have a clue

got me, baby...

[Solarjetman]

What's a porkie ?

Well, according to www.dictionary.com, a porkie is the informal word for porcupine.

I think I need to get Limewire and download me some porcupines! Never knew you could do that!

[FOO]

I saw one of those. I think it needed to be de-interlaced.
It had sharp lines around its edges.

[Solarjetman]

good one FOO!

[g_shocker182]

This thread has gone off-topic on us.....for the better .

A nice little funny thread every once in a while is appreciated.

[Solarjetman]

This thread has gone off-topic on us.....for the better

Well, housepig said really all there is to say on topic Most are Divx and thus more compressed than mpeg. I guess I could add that many are not near the resolution of a DVD as well. So it drastically cuts back on the size as well.

There, we are on topic, now can we go off agian?

Also, kwack, even though we are joking around, feel free to ask more questions if you have them.

[DRP]

DVD format uses MPEG-2 compression while the files that are transferred via p2p or by other means that I don't know about are compressed using MPEG-4 algorthims of which XviD and DivX are a couple that belong to that family.

MPEG-2 is the older of those two compression systems and hence less efficient than MPEG-4. Arguably, for equal perceived quality, an MPEG-2 compressed file (DVD format) will be twice as large as the same video compressed with an MPEG-4 compression format like XviD or DivX.

The development of the video compression systems mirrors that in the digital audio world. There MP3 was the first format and got widespread acceptance and use such that it virtually became the default 'standard' for digital audio. The codecs that compressed audio in this format got very highly tweaked and tuned to the point that the quality they were capable of replicating was indistinguishable from the original to the vast majority of the music listening population.

When you reach that level of quality, how can you improve upon the tool used to create it? Only by duplicating the quality of the recorded material but in doing so, store it in an even smaller filesize than it was in before. This resulted in the OGG format and others like WMA which again, arguably, duplicate the highest possible quality MP3 encodings but make them even smaller than those orignal MP3 ones.

This is what MPEG-4 (DivX & XviD etc.) does to DVD (MPEG-2) compression. They make it the same quality but at half the filesize. Very few people would find it possible to complain about the quality of DVD video. To human eyes and perceptions it is all but perfect. As it is not possible to improve upon perfection, the only way forward is to maintain that perfection in a smaller package.

[lordsmurf]

This is what MPEG-4 (DivX & XviD etc.) does to DVD (MPEG-2) compression. They make it the same quality but at half the filesize.

Isn't this more theory than actual usage? I've never seen an MPEG-4 compressed file rival the quality of MPEG-2. In fact, my understanding is that MPEG-2 was developed for quality over size, while MPEG-4 was developed solely for small sizes while attempting to retain quality like that of MPEG-2.

And when you get down to it, isn't the MPEG-4 fundamentally different from MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 altogether, sharing little more than name alone, hence the reasoning it is still packed inside an AVI carrier file?

I do notice that MPEG-4 suffers from color loss moreso than other formats. At least from the files I've seen in that format.

I'd love to see a MPEG-4 file that rivals or tops the quality of an MPEG-2, if they, in fact, do exist. I'd try it myself, but I have no desire to buy the software needed for such encodes.

[DRP]

2lordsmurf

Yes, of course this is largely just the basic theory of it. That's why I tried to litter the word "arguably" in there as much as possible. The point is though that the OP's question is a reasonably basic one (no disrespect intended at all I assure you - I still consider myself a newbie as well) and as such I thought it was appropriate to maybe provide some basic information to get him going. Once one understands the basics of how the compression systems compare to one another it is then much easier to go ahead and do your own testing and experiments to come up with your own conclusions and opinions.

I didn't mean to proclaim for one and all that MPEG-4 is always better than MPEG-2 because it's exactly the same quality while being half the size - that's not true as you well know, it's much more complicated than that and there are many other things to consider before you could possibly make an all encompassing sweeping statement like that.

The same arguments exist in digital audio as well. To my ears at least, WMA is no-where near the quality of the typical LAME 3.92 --aps encoded MP3s, however WMA is marketed as being the same quality as MP3 at half the size. In a broad sense applicable when communicating with a wide audience of varied experience and tolerance levels of what constitutes "good quality" though, I am willing to concede that it probably *is* true enough.

[Chuffster]

A porkie is a lie; from British cockney rhyming slang "pork pie"

other examples:

"Apples and Pears" = stairs
"Ruby Murry" = curry
"Butchers Hook" = look

It's the second word that rhymes but it is often only the first word is used.

[DRP]

A porkie is a lie; from British cockney rhyming slang "pork pie"

other examples:

"Apples and Pears" = stairs
"Ruby Murry" = curry
"Butchers Hook" = look

It's the second word that rhymes but it is often only the first word is used.

What'a "Ruby Murry" then?

[tweedledee]

Hey Chuffster, I know THE SWEENEY is slang for SWEENEY TODD (flying squad) or the police, but why THE BILL for the police?

[overloaded_ide]

Wanna ask this so I don't end up breaking rules too later

First off, I have never heard of Limewire, and don't want to know
But what exactly was the first post breaking for rules? Was it Limewire itself or the downloading files part? I've seen similar posts mention breaking rules, with out actually naming what file they got.
Since he did not actualy name names, I would assume he meant a legally downloadable file

Kinda like if I said I just downloaded MP3's from ????. Not every file is illegal to download! Maybe most, but not ALL.
If more people used P2P and other questionable such things, like a band I know does or tries too, maybe we would have better music cheaper someday!

What this band is TRYING to do, is use common search words for titles of original songs, so if your searching for something illegal their song also pops up in the list of avialable downloads. They try to use interesting sounding titles too, to peak ones curiousity so they will download the song.

What they are hoping for is a few people will like them and freely distribute those songs and get their name out to the people! In this manner they become known publically for free, then if they try to release a comercail disk as a private label they have a better chance of success.
Personnally, I don't like them I hate to say
But we don't all have the same taist in music either. One of their songs is something about "I grew up on lead Zeplin".
I think another is "My Chevy is a rock"! Something about how it sunk to the bottom when he slide into a river
He likes FORD!!

Anyway, what I am getting at on this is what they are doing is pefectly legal! They are releasing what they legally own all rights to freely via P2P!
Although another thing they are hoping for is that some big name star records their songs someday so they can collect royalties off that! They do still have that right also!

Now that business plan of theirs is something I am also planning to do with videos! When/IF I get my Magic video finished, I plan to sell it! I am going to try one or two tricks/illusions on a short video and freely share those through P2P and any other method I can distribute through for free!
At the end of the video will be a small advertisement, if you want to buy the DVD with X# illusions here's how.
Now that will be a movie download that is perfectly legal! I own all rights to my work and this project! I WANT that downloaded and distributid as much as possible of course!

And that brings up what I said about my not wanting to break rules
When I get that preview file on P2P I would like experienced people here to view my work. SO not as spamming I would probably ask those using ??? P2P to download my file and give me a feedback, plus share it if they liked it of course.

So since that ones LEGAL, would it be breaking rules talking about downloading the movie from ??? P2P service?

Sorry for that long post.

[Gees]

Hey Chuffster, I know THE SWEENEY is slang for SWEENEY TODD (flying squad) or the police, but why THE BILL for the police?

Yeah, I'd love to know that too, why "Old Bill"?

And why are prostitutes "toms"?

and where did "cor blymie" (?sp) come from? :c*

I'm living in UK and no one I know seems to know the answers to those.

[tweedledee]

TOM'S are called that from TOM CATS which will screw all night, and COR BLIMEY is from GOD BLIND ME which was a fairly daring thing to say in those days.

[Gees]

I see. Thanks :c)

[tweedledee]

The Old Bill

Why are the police referred to as the old bill?

According to Brewer's Twentieth Century Phrase and Fable, Old Bill is a "British working-class slang expression that has crept into common parlance since the 1970s and '80s..." Its derivation is obscure but could be related to the weapon policemen used to carry.

The Oxford English Dictionary 2nd edition says The Bill is the Metropolitan Police cab-drivers' licence. It also gives the definition of a bill as a weapon used by constables of the watch until late into the 18th century.

I just found this on a GOOGLE search

[housepig]

Overloaded....

while normally I'd agree with you, and I generally stand up for the "don't ask, don't tell" strategy, assuming positive intent unless someone names a warez download, I went the other way in this case.

converging lines of evidence - yes, there are legal downloadable files floating around on p2p. But how many of them are full length films? he's asking how a 90 minute film can be compressed into 700mb... to me, that smelled a little to much like warez to justify the warning I gave him.

but the fact he didn't name files is the reason I didn't report his post.

[TBoneit]

And since most video files on those P2P networks are from DVDs (No I don't use them either. But the movie files gotta come from somewhere and I'm guessing DVD and maybe some from Video Tape.

Then it follows that re-compressing a already compressed format, MPEG-2 to MPEG-4, must reduce quality. and if from VHS, then quality is alread reduced.

The only way I could see a MPEG-4 video to be high quality would be from and original production master that hasn't been MPEG'd yet. IE something you recorded, captured, editied, and authored into the MPEG-4 format.

So, yup thats gotta be hi quality results...

Sarcasm Mode on:
DVD to MPEG-4 to DVD....Yup those two extra compressions won't affect quality at all.
End Sarcasm mode.

Cheers

[overloaded_ide]

Thanks housepig,
That's what I was wondering.

[jdizzy40]

We are being invaded by the Brits, just don't tell Tony Blair!

[BJ_M]

This is what MPEG-4 (DivX & XviD etc.) does to DVD (MPEG-2) compression. They make it the same quality but at half the filesize.

Isn't this more theory than actual usage? I've never seen an MPEG-4 compressed file rival the quality of MPEG-2. In fact, my understanding is that MPEG-2 was developed for quality over size, while MPEG-4 was developed solely for small sizes while attempting to retain quality like that of MPEG-2.

And when you get down to it, isn't the MPEG-4 fundamentally different from MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 altogether, sharing little more than name alone, hence the reasoning it is still packed inside an AVI carrier file?

I do notice that MPEG-4 suffers from color loss moreso than other formats. At least from the files I've seen in that format.

I'd love to see a MPEG-4 file that rivals or tops the quality of an MPEG-2, if they, in fact, do exist. I'd try it myself, but I have no desire to buy the software needed for such encodes.

i would have to agree with you , i think the same thing , but microsoft is promoting their wm9 for high def in theaters (and it is currently being used in some) .. seems kinda weird - but true ..

wm9 is also a type of mpeg4

[housepig]

Sarcasm Mode on:
DVD to MPEG-4 to DVD....Yup those two extra compressions won't affect quality at all.
End Sarcasm mode.

Tboneit -

honestly, it really depends on the file. I have downloaded some Divx / Mp4 files that have turned out really well once back on dvd, and I've downloaded some that were absolute crap.... it really depends on the care that went into encoding them in the first place.

Although I will say I haven't tried to reconvert something that was squeezed down to fit 90 minutes in 700mb.

[TBoneit]

Yes, some of the MP4 files may be good quality depending on the care used in the creation of the file.

My point was (Not clear maybe) that the movies on those P2P networks are most likely from DVD rips, so they are going from a compressed Mpeg2 to Compressed Mpeg4. That has to be lower quality, minimal or not in terms of loss. Then reconverting a 3rd time to Mpeg2 for DVD..

All these conversions mean that the quality can't be as good as the original DVD. Not say it couldn't be good, I think some VCDs look Ok so who is to say.

Cheers

[Gazorgan]

I have DivX/XviD files that are indistinguishable from my original DVD. It's easy to do for a TV, since it can't fully use the DVD data (unless you have a 50" HDTV, which I don't).

Now let's get one thing straight. No 700 MB AVI file is going to look like a DVD. That can be an 8:1 compression ratio over MPEG2. Ain't going to happen. Some 1400 MB AVI's (2 pieces) can be indistinguishable from a DVD. Needless to say the 2100 MB (3 Pieces) should be flawless ( hope your computer is 2 Ghz + to watch these).

IMHO you can get a 2:1 to a 3:1 size advantage over MPEG2 and keep the same quality. If you could encode from the raw video source (thus removing the MPEG2 induced distortion) then you could do a true comparison.

There is no such thing as a good 700 MB AVI movie (over 90 minutes). Either it's distorted or VCD sized. Stop saving the 15 cents for a CDR and make it 1400 MB!!!!!! Anyone that does AC5.1 on a movie that's 700 MB is a moron :P

[Roderz]

Hey Chuffster, I know THE SWEENEY is slang for SWEENEY TODD (flying squad) or the police, but why THE BILL for the police?

Origins of "The Old Bill" or "The Bill" as slang names for the police. The simple answer is that no one really knows for sure. Over the years at least 13 different possibilities have been proposed, as follows:

1. "Old Bill" was King William IV, whose constables were an early form of police. (It is often said erroneously that he was on the throne when the police were founded. Actually he did not succeed George IV until 1830)

2. The play "The Custom of the Country" written by John Fletcher in 1619 has constables of the watch refer to themselves as 'us peacemakers and all our bill of authority'.

3. Constables of the watch were sometimes nicknamed for the bills, or billhooks they carried as weapons.

4. Kaiser Wilhelm I of Prussia visited England around the time in 1864 when the police uniform changed from top hat and swallowtail coat to helmet and tunic. Such 'Prussian militarism' may have led to the police being nicknamed after the first (and today less remembered) Kaiser Bill.

5. The 'old bill' was, in Victorian times, a bill presumed to be presented by the police for a bribe to persuade them to turn a blind eye to some nefarious activity.

6. New laws for the police to enforce all come from bills passed through Parliament

7. "Old Bill" might refer to Bill Bailey of the music hall song 'Won't You Come Home...?' used in conjunction with a pun on the Central Criminal Court at the Old Bailey.

8. In the 1860s there was a Sergeant Bill Smith in Limehouse. He was a popular character and people used to ask after 'Old Bill'.

9. Many police officers wore authoritarian-looking "Old Bill" moustaches like that adorning a famous W.W.1 cartoon character 'the wily old soldier in the trenches' by Bruce Bairnsfather.

10. In 1917 the government used Bairnsfather's character in posters and advertisements putting over wartime messages under the heading "Old Bill says...". For this campaign the character was dressed in a special constable's uniform.

11. The original vehicles used by the Flying Squad all had the registration letters BYL, so the squad became known as 'the Bill'.

12. The London County Council at one time registered all police, fire and ambulance vehicles with the letters BYL

13. According to old Etonian illegal gaming club organizer and author the late Robin Cook ('Derek Raymond'), 'old bill' is a racing term for an outsider or unknown quantity. From the point of view of the underworld, police would be outsiders

Despite all these suggestions, the earliest documented usage traced by the Metropolitan Police Historical Museum is from 1970 and 'Partridge's Dictionary of Slang'. Without giving citations the book dates "Old Bill" from the 1950s "or perhaps earlier". So the term may possibly be post W.W.2.
--

Has that put a smile on you boat