SVCD to DVDR Ulead no go,TMPEG no go trying CCE, help needed

[zx7ninja]

Hey guys, I am having major problems trying to figure this out. I have been using TMPEG for a while for many other things, but unfortunately I can't get it do do an svcd to dvdr conversion for me. It is constantly crashing, no matter what I do. Ulead WS would convert, but i'd get out of synch audio. Even in the rare instances where I could get tmpeg to work right, and create a dvd-compliant file, ulead would still try and re-convert it. So forget them both. I'm ready to try CCE, after all that I have heard about them. I hear it's a lot faster, and of excellent quality.
So, this is where I need help. There is a GREAT guide on doom9 that helps with CCE, which I plan on using. Unfortunately, from what I could tell, it does not deal with a conversion, but with patching. I do NOT want to patch the files. I want to do a complete conversion. I want the best compatibility possible with all players. I can't find a guide on ANY of the forums that deal with a full conversion. Unless I overlooked one....

Any, here is what i'm trying to do. I am trying to take an SVCD source file, 480x480 res, and convert to 720x480 ntsc res video with compatible sound. Elementary streams are ok, as I will be attempting to author with Maestro. I cannot find a way to make maestro take any other format than ac3 for sound, so I assume that this format must be used. That's ok, as I should have enough space left over for the audio.

Questions:
1.What do I need to do in order to get CCE to re-encode my mpeg2 file to 720x480? I have a rough idea, but I need details.

2.Is there a way to make maestro take any other audio than ac3?(I know that's an authoring question, but it makes a difference in what I encode the audio to, so i'll aks it here)

3.If not, is there a way to convert the svcd(mpeg) audio to a mutli-channel ac3 strem? I do not want to only have 2 speakers playing while veiwing.(if there's IS a way to make maestro take non-ac3 audio, that would be ok, as my ONKYO receiver will take a 2-channel source and output multi-channel ac3. I love that feature)

4.What else do I need to do here? I'm really getting lost here, and just want to be able to get this done.

Thanks for any help guys, it is MUCH appreciated. And if this can be figured out, I plan to sit and make a guide for it, and will give credit to anyone who has helped me along the way.

[Luis Neves]

Are you shure about wanting to reencode? You will certainly loose quality. I have moved many mpeg2 svcd files to DVD, just reencoding the sound and using the header trick and Maestro. Almost every player should read this.

[zx7ninja]

Well, I am aware that some quality will be lost, and that it can't be helped. Although, I have 2 DVD players. One is a Pioneer which will play anything I throw at it, including DVD's made with the header trick. The other is an older pioneer which will not play vcd's or svcd's, but WILL play dvd-r's. I just want to make them compatible with both players. Also, I was curious on how a dvd-svcd done with the header trick and the same movie converted fully looked compared to each other on a big screen HDTV. I'm just curious if there would be any difference at all. But if I can't get it to work, I guess just using the trick will be fine.

Anyone other ideas guys?

[DJRumpy]

Assuming the SVCD is a good source, the loss in quality is minimal. I've done many of these conversions since I aquired my DVD burner.

Tools Needed:

MPEG2DEC.DLL (Used to read DVD2AVI D2V Project Files. Put in your Windows\System, or WINNT\SYSTEM32 directory)
DVD2AVI (version 1.76 - for MPEG/VOB conversions. Version 1.77 won't work with MPEG2DEC.DLL and AVISynth 2.0x)
AVISynth, or VirtualDub (AVISynth version 2.08 suggested. Skip the beta ver)
CCE (suggested 2.66 or higher)
Pulldown.exe and PulldownBatchFE.exe (to add pulldown flags)
BeSweet and BeSweet GUI

All of these tools can be found here, or at www.doom9.org, or just search google.

Your SVCD is probably telecined if it was originally from a DVD rip. Read here for more info on identifying the type of video (telecined or interlaced): www.lukesvideo.com

Open the MPEG's with DVD2AVI (it supports drag n drop). You should specify all MPEG's from each disk. It will let you ADD each one. Set your audio to Demux. Your track to #1, and if your Frame Type is Progressive, or 90% FILM or higher (use F5 to find out), then set your VIDEO | FIELD OPERATION to 'Force Film'. Select FILE | SAVE PROJECT. Call it dvd2avi.d2v for this example.

Open Notepad, and input the following script:

# Anything after a pound sign is ignored and optional
# If you didn't put mpeg2dec.dll in your system dir then
# you will have to specify the full path to mpeg2dec.dll
LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("dvd2avi.d2v") # the path to your dvd2avi file
# Note: If this script is in the same dir as the D2V file then you only
# Need to specify the dvd2avi.d2v filename
BicubicResize(720,480)
ResamleAudio(48000)

Save this script as movie.avs and put it in the same directory as your .D2V file (dvd2avi.d2v).

You should now be able to open this script in MediaPlayer, and view your entire movie. You can just doubleclick it, and select MediaPlayer as the default viewer for your .AVS scripts. If the script does not work, but an error is displayed instead, then Note the line #, and examine that line of of your script to see where the problem lies.

If the script plays correctly, then you can now drop this .AVS script onto the CCE encoder. Encode per the instructions.

This is the quick method. The process may look complicated, but it takes all of minute to setup, type, etc. The longest part of the process is the encode in CCE, and saving the project file in DVD2AVI, which takes a minute or two. Note that saving the project file in DVD2AVI will also generate a WAV/MP2/AC3 file, depending on the audio options you selected. This file can be discarded.

The last item to note for this type of conversion is the 2-Second overlap that is common between multi-disk SVCD sets. Many people repeat the last second or two at the start of the next disk. I guess their memories can't handle the 30 seconds it takes to change disks, and they completely lose their frame of reference. Who knows? In any case, this type of thing makes these conversions more difficult. If your a perfectionist, or even just a little picky, your going to want to remove these. It's rather simple with AVISynth. It requires scanning the video with VirtualDub. Use the double arrow preview key to find the start and stop frame you want. Note the frame number. You then modify your script to use the TRIM command to selectively grab ranges of video and remove any overlap. The format for the command is this: Trim(clip,start,stop). If you specify 0 for start, then the beginning of the clip is set as START. If you specify 0 for the STOP value, then the end of the clip is set to END. Your modified script would look like this (note - it is note case sensitive):

LoadPlugin("mpeg2source")
input=mpeg2source("mpeg2dec.dll")
clip1=Trim( input, 0, 30000 )
# the 30000 value is jsut an example. put in the END value there
clip2=Trim( input, 30004, 64001)
# again, the START and END values are just examples
# Now we join our pieces of video together to get a single output
clip1++clip2

Save the script, and play it in MediaPlayer to verify you've removed the overlap.

Hopefully this won't overwhelm you. It's a lot of information to take in, but it's simple once you get the hang of it.

The last thing to consider is Letterboxing and Aspect Ratio. If your movie is letterboxed, you can remove this, and convert it to proper 16:9 widescreen. Post if your interested, and I'll give the the details, or search the forum, as I've posted the info multiple times before.

[zx7ninja]

DJRumpy, thanks! That was excellent! I haven't actually authored and burned yet, but the conversion process went flawlessly. Although I do have a couple of questions.

My source file when viewed in dvd2avi next to FRAME TYPE, it flashes rapidly between progressive and interlaced, instead of showing one or the other. Everything else points to it being progressive, so I went that route. I hope this was the right choice.

Also, I haven't been able to figure out how to get besweet(with the GUI you suggested) to convert the audio file to a multi-channel ac, or any other format for that matter. Even if the settings are right, I keep getting a stereo output.

Other than that, I think i'm all set. Thanks for the help!
Oh, and if anyone else wants to help too, fell free!

[Barnabas]

You don't need TMPGenc, and you don't have to re-encode the video. Most DVD players will play a SVCD-DVD as long as you upsample the audio to 48 khz. Look in the guides section for how to do this.

[DJRumpy]

Barnabas, zx7ninja specifically wanted to convert them to DVD format, not use the header trick.

My source file when viewed in dvd2avi next to FRAME TYPE, it flashes rapidly between progressive and interlaced, instead of showing one or the other. Everything else points to it being progressive, so I went that route. I hope this was the right choice.

This means that your source is Telecined. This is because the frame types for a telecined source displays 3 Progressive frames, and then two interlaced frames, causing the Frame Type display to flash rapidly between the two. It's a dead giveaway as to the type of Source file you have. Use the FORCE FILM option under the VIDEO | FIELD OPERATION menu in DVD2AVI. This will give you the original 23.976 Frames Per Second ouput. This is the best case scenario for you. The conversion should look good.

Also, I haven't been able to figure out how to get besweet(with the GUI you suggested) to convert the audio file to a multi-channel ac, or any other format for that matter. Even if the settings are right, I keep getting a stereo output.

Since your source is SVCD, your input is only Stereo. Although you could manually attempt to create a 5.1 AC3 sound track, it's really not worth the effort. Just use your 2-Channel output. The BeSweet GUI can be a little overwhelming at first due to all of the options. Since your going to DVD, I would suggest you select AC3 for your output (it will still be only 2-Channel to match your input). You do this on the right middle side of the GUI, just under the text "MP2ENC", and to the right of the BOOST setting.
This is where you can select any number of formats, like MP2, AC3, MP2, etc.

On a side note, if you plan to use the GUI with any frequency, or edit/convert audio, you should also download SSRC, 2Lame (sometimes called TooLame). These can be configured in this GUI as well, so their all in one place.

[gsashok]

1. Copy mpg or dat file from CD to HD
2. Open tmpgenc
3. Demultiplex
4. Open Audio file and convert to 48Khz audio
5. multiplex audio and video file
6. open ulead and add newly created mpegs. (ulead will not rencode)

In this method i created 5 dvds each has 4 hrs duration

[DJRumpy]

gsashok, the question was specific to CCE, although I'm sure zx7ninja wouldn't mind waiting an extra day or two for the encode to finish in TMPGenc

zx7ninja, I forgot to mention the audio. BeSweet will create AC3 audio (2-Channel), or it will create 5.1 AC3-WAV, which you should be able to use in Maestro. In either case, it will produce any format you need. If you plan to use AC3 audio, then in DVD2AVI, select DECODE under the audio menu. This will produce a stereo WAV file from your SVCD, which can be plugged into BeSweet. I've never tried it's 5.1 WAV option. Maybe someone else can tell you if the quality is worth the work.

[Barnabas]

zx7ninja,

Converting from 480x480 to 720x480 is going to look worse than making an SVCD-DVD. I have done both, but now only use that later.

[DJRumpy]

If the SVCD quality is good, the drop shouldn't be noticable when done properly. Most SVCD's are direct from digital DVD Rips, and excellent quality.

Again, the original request states that they want maximum compatability, meaning the SVCD patch technique isn't an option.

[zx7ninja]

Wow, DJRumpy, thanks again! I appreciate the help. I followed your instructions to a T. All processes went beautifully. Video conversion went great, audio conversion went great. Maestro, although it had a couple hiccups(seems to be a very picky program), was able to author the dvd, and it burned successfully. Although there are still 2 problems, and I hope it's just because I overlooked something.

1.The audio is out of sync. Not that big a problem, as maestro can attempt to sync it up, and I still need to play with that. So this is not necessarily a problem, yet.

2. The displayed size on my screen is only about half the size of my source file. Very small. All the other programs i've tried, although each having a fatal flaw that causes me to be unable to use it(tmpeg crashes 80% into encoding, ulead has out-of-sync audio, mainconcept encoded video freezes halfway into the movie, etc....), all have one thing in common. After the disc is authored and burned, they all display on the tv a screen size faithful to the source file. CCE is the only program that messes up in the displayed size. Although It does get right what all the other programs messed up on. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Anyway, I don't know if it's something with CCE, or something in maestro, but if this last problem can be sorted out I think i'd be done!
Thanks for all your help, it is MUCH appreciated.

[DJRumpy]

Lets tackle the audio problem first. How far out of sync is the audio? If it's only a tiny bit, then I would suspect a few corrupted frames in your Source MPEG's. Even though they may play in sync as SVCD, doesn't mean that there aren't frames that are corrupt in your MPEG. Unfortunately, when you burn these onto disc, it can be a problem to get them back off again. If your having problems with corruption, you can use something like WinISO to get a raw image of the disc. You can also use something like VCDGear to strip the MPEG off the disk to a file on your PC (use the fix mpeg errors if you use VCDGear). You can use an audio editor, like GoldWav to stretch your audio, to match the length of your video. It will usually resolve your audio sync problems. If your audio is way off (say into 30+ seconds by the end of the movie), then there may be some other issue at work.

2. The displayed size on my screen is only about half the size of my source file. Very small. All the other programs i've tried, although each having a fatal flaw that causes me to be unable to use it(tmpeg crashes 80% into encoding, ulead has out-of-sync audio, mainconcept encoded video freezes halfway into the movie, etc....), all have one thing in common. After the disc is authored and burned, they all display on the tv a screen size faithful to the source file. CCE is the only program that messes up in the displayed size. Although It does get right what all the other programs messed up on. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

This one could be CCE, or I suppose it could also be Maestro. I never dived into Maestro, so I'll take this from a CCE or Source problem for now. In CCE, ensure that DVD Compliant is NOT checked. You should also verify that your .AVS script is actually producing a valid DVD resolution. To do this, open VirtualDub, and drag/drop your .AVS script onto it. From the FILE menu in VirtualDub, select FILE | FILE INFORMATION. Let me know what it reports. Specifically, see which details I need below.

VirtualDub should report the Frame Size as 720x480 (or some other valid dvd resolution). It should also report the Decompressor as YUV 4:2:2 (YUY2). If the decompressor reports RGB instead, you should add the following line to your script, right after your MPEG2SOURCE line:
ConvertToYUY2() #no space between the ()
This doesn't affect your audio sync, but it will affect the speed in CCE. AVISynth can work in the YUY2 colorspace, which is much faster than RGB. This command will convert your input to YUY2.

Last but not least, under the Audio Stream section, it should report a Sampling rate of 48000Hz.

If all of these things are correct, then ensure that your CCE settings do not have any of the 'HALF' options (half horz or half vert) enabled in the VIDEO section. These Half options will reduce the output size of your video depending on which you choose.

Can you describe this reduced image in a bit more detail? Is it shrunk only in one direction (i.e is the image short? Is it tall, but narrow? Is it shrunk on all sides, leaving a black border? You get the idea).

I would also like a link to the guide you used. I'll look at the settings. What output resolution are you going to?

[zx7ninja]

OK, the audio is only a little off. A little less than a second. Unfortunately, as soon as I noticed the audio sync problem I started over again, so I didn't check to see how far out of sync it was at the end of the disk. If I get the problem again, i'll definitely check it. But for now it doesn't seem all that bad. I'll re-rip the movie from the SVCD using the VCDGear suggestion. I initially used IsoBuster to rip it, so maybe that was the problem. I have used VCDGear in the past for other uses, but it's been a while, and I definitely wouldn't mind going back to it.

As far as the video, it's very short. No borders on the sides or anything, just short.
I opened the .avs in VirtualDub, and it reports the Frame Size as 720x480, 23.976fps. It also lists the Decompressor as YUV 4:2:2 (YUY2). So everything looks ok there. I know I didn't enable any of the "HALF" options in CCE, bit I MIGHT have overlooked the "DVD Compliant" option. I think it might've been checked, so i'll re-encode again without it checked and see if it makes a difference.
Oh, and i'm definitely going to a 720x480 res.

The guide i've been using for CCE settings is this one:

http://www.doom9.org/mpg/cce-advanced.htm

It was written for CCE 2.50, but I am using 2.66. So there is a slight difference, but not big, and I am trying to adjust accordingly with the differences between the two programs. I'm following the guide letter for letter as best as I can.

Thanks again for all the help, I feel that success is not far off!

Edit: Oh yeah, i'm not able to get a wav from the source file. Only an mpa. I did try changing the settings in dvd2avi to get different formats, but this was the only one that actually gave me an audio file. All the others would give me the d2v only.

[zx7ninja]

Success!! Everything went beautifully. I couldn't have expected better. I went through the process again from the beginning, and this time it worked out fine. Apparently I did something wrong the first time. The audio is in sync, and the video is very high quality. In fact, it seems like the difference between the original SVCD file and the end product of the conversion is minimal. Barely noticeable, if at all. I'm very happy with the results.
Of course, I only did the first disk, so now I have to do the rest and figure out how to get them to play together seemlessly. I know I saw a guide for this on one of the forums yesterday, but I forgot to bookmark it. I hope I can find it again.

Thanks a lot for your help DJRumpy, I couldn't have done it without you!

[DJRumpy]

From your description, I'd guess you got the Aspect Ratio wrong on the first encode. Unless you crop your old SVCD letterboxing, and convert it to 16:9, you end up with a sqaushed effect if you select 16:9 for the aspect ratio. If you select 4:3, then your output should look fine. If you have a 16:9 television, let me know, and I'll show you how to convert it back to 16:9.

To join your two SVCD's together, you can use AVISynth. This part is a tiny bit tricky. It sounds harder than it actaully is. To do this, you'll need VirtualDub, DVD2AVI, and AVISynth and MPEG2DEC. You should already have these, if not, find them in the TOOLS section.

If your SVCD's do NOT overlap, then you can skip this whole process. Loading all the MPEG's into DVD2AVI, and saving the project file is all you need. It will ouput a single 'whole' movie. If they do, however, overlap (common for SVCD's..they tend to replay about 2 seconds of the last disc on the next disc), then you'll probably want to remove the overlap. If you do, read on...

After extracting your MPEG's off of each SVCD, open ALL of the SVCD MPEG's in DVD2AVI. If they are named in a simular fashion ( movie1.mpg, movie2.mpg, etc), it will auto load them all. If they are not named in the same format, use the ADD button to add each one. Make sure you get the order correct.


Save it as a project file. You also need to save the audio file (the format doesn't matter, as we can convert it to what we need. MPA is fine). IF it outputs MPA, then convert this with BeSweet to WAV. Call the WAV file AUDIO.WAV

Create your .AVS script, simply linking to your .D2V like so:

loadplugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("dvd2avi.d2v")

Save this script at TEST.AVS, and open it in VirtualDub. A few tips to navigate with VirtualDub. Use the Double Arrow button on the bottom of the VDub window, to scroll in 1 frame increments. Use the button with a 'key' to qickly jump through keyframes (usually corresponds to scene changes). Use the Arrow buttons with the red/green to 'play' to each keyframe. This button will pause when it hits a scene change.

Scroll to the point where the first, and second disk are joined (usually around 40-50 minutes into the movie). Look for the overlap point. I usually scroll to the very end of the first movie, and note the frame number (it will be displayed in the status bar). If the frame is garbled (common on split mpegs), then take the frame before the garbled frame. Very important: Note something in the frame, which you can use to identify this scene. It could be anything from a persons hand over an object in the background, a car moving through the scene, etc. You must note exactly where this object is, so you can spot this exact frame on the next disk.

Use the Double Arrow button to scroll through the 'repeat' material at the beginning of the second disk. It's usually only a second or two, but you may have to click 30-40 times. Find the exact frame you identified above, and go ONE frame past the frame you identified above. Again, note the frame number at the bottom of the VDub window.

If your SVCD set is a 3 disk set, then repeat the above steps for the third disk, but instead of using the TEST.AVS script in VirtualDub to get the frame number, use the script we create below. The reason for this is because you have removed X number of frames from the video for the Disc1 to Disc2 merge. These missing frames will skew the frame number by the amount you've removed. Your old TEST.AVS script doesn't take this into account, as it simply displays all frames including overlap. Your new script DOES take this into account, since you've already removed the extra frames. Read below to find out how to do the third disc.

Create a new AVISynth script. Call it MOVIE.AVS. This script will be the actual script you use in your encoder. It will remove any overlap between each of your SVCD's. It will look like this, assuming for this example, that the first disc STOP frame was 30000, and the second frame START frame was 30079. Again, these are examples only:

LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
Mpeg2Source("dvd2avi.d2v") #whatever you called your dvd2avi proj. file
WAVSource("audio.wav") #this command loads the DVD2AVI WAV file
# The WAVSource command uses the WAV filename you created above
# the WAVSource line MUST go before any of your TRIM commands
Clip1=Trim(0,30000) # 30000 would be the STOP frame for the first disc
Clip2=Trim(30079,0) #30079 would be the START value of the 2nd disc

Repeat for the 3rd MPEG if your SVCD's are more than 2 by saving the above MOVIE.AVS at this point, and drag/drop the new script into VirtualDub. The 0 you see above in the Trim command indicates either "From the Beginning", or "To The End", depending on whether it's the first number, or the last number in the Trim command respectively. If it's first, it means "from the beginning". It it's last, then it means "To the end". With that in mind, or command: Clip2=Trim(30079,0) would indicate that Clip2 will = all frames starting with frame # 30079, and ending at the end of the movie, because of the zero '0'. If you had more than 2 mpegs, then the Clip2 line would of couse use the STOP frame number for the second MPEG, and the Clip3 line you would add would use '0' as the last number. Hopefully, you get the idea. If not, let me know, and I'll go into more detail, with examples of a 3 disk set.

To join all of these 'Clipx' pieces together, you use the AlignedSplice syntax in AVISynth. Your script would look like this:

LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
Mpeg2Source("dvd2avi.d2v")
WAVSource("audio.wav")
Clip1=Trim(0,30000)
Clip2=Trim(30079,0)
Clip1++Clip2

You would then add in the rest of your Resize commands after the above, so it would look like this:

LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
Mpeg2Source("dvd2avi.d2v")
Clip1=Trim(0,30000)
Clip2=Trim(30079,0)
Clip1++Clip2
BicubicResize(720,480)
ResamleAudio(48000

The above script will assign all frame #'s between 0 and 30000 to the variable called Clip1. It assigns all frame #'s from 30079, to the end of the movie to Clip2. The next line splices Clip1 together with Clip2, returning the new merged video. Of course the last two Resize your video, and Resample your audio to 48Khz respectively.

That's about it. As I said, it looks a bit daunting, but's it's rather simple. The hardest part is finding the START/STOP frame. You can now delete the TEST.AVS file you created. The new MOVIE.AVS script is the one you will use to in the encoder.

[zx7ninja]

DJRumpy, thanks again for the help. Yeah, something was all wrong with the first encode, and it sounds like that's what it was.
I did a lot of playing around last night, and in reading one of your previous posts, figured out how to use trim to get disc one and two together. Although disc 3 wouldn't go right. Now I know why. I was still using the original .avs. I'll go and load up the other one that already has disc one and two together to do disc 3, like you said.
I do have a question though....it looks like from your instructions that they are having CCE do the audio encode/conversion to 48000. From what i've seen here there's a running debate on whether CCE's encoder was good or not. I found a way last night using the .mpa output of the three joined disks, and using headac3he to split them at the right points into three separate files and besweet to rejoin them. A little tedious, but not bad. But there's an awful lot going on there, and i'm afraid i'm losing quality every step of the way as I go. Not to mention I have no idea how it'll sync with the video.
I also assume that using the trim commands in the .avs, along with the WAVSource line, that not only will the vide be joined correctly, but the audio will be also? If CCE's audio encoder is acceptable, this would be much easier to let CCE do it than going through all those other steps. Plus it should sync up great.
Oh, and yes, i'm definitely interested in converting to 16:9. That would be great for the widescreen, but how would it appear on a normal 4:3 television? It would be nice to be able to watch the final DVD on either type.
Well, I think tahat it's very close now, very close. Thanks again for your help, and I look forward to your reply.

[DJRumpy]

I do have a question though....it looks like from your instructions that they are having CCE do the audio encode/conversion to 48000.

AVISynth is actually doing the resample to 48Khz (using the ResampleAudio(48000) command ). No worries either way. You can also let CCE do the resample. It does a fine job of it. Of course, quality is a subjective thing, so if you want to try it, simply remove the ResampleAudio command from your AVISynth script, and let CCE resample. The output should sound fine.

I just realized, I didn't give you the command to rejoin the audio to the video. Um...{*DOH!*}

Your audio setup isn't right (understandable, since you probably didn't HAVE audio..color me embarrassed). Remeber that since you added all three MPEG's into DVD2AVI, that all of your audio is already joined in the MPA file it outputs. Just convert that MPA file to WAV using BeSweet. The WAVSource command in the script will join the audio and video together in combination with the AudioDub command like so:

video=Mpeg2Source("dvd2avi.d2v")
audio=WavSource("audio.wav")
AudioDub(video,audio)

At this point, the audio and video are locked together, so your trim commands will keep them sync'd. No need to split the MPA, or any thing like that. If you want to verify, just open your .AVS script in Media Player. It will play the audio correctly no matter where your viewing it in the timeline. If you want to be sure, just open your final .AVS script (including TRIM commands) in Media Player. Ensure the audio is synced at the end, and after each spliced area.

To put this in context, your script would look like this:

LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
video=Mpeg2Source("dvd2avi.d2v")
audio=WavSource("audio.wav")
AudioDub(video,audio)
Clip1=Trim(0,30000)
Clip2=Trim(30079,0)
Clip1++Clip2

Now onto the Gruesome stuff. Converting 4:3 to 16:9. This assumes of course that your SVCD is letterboxed. You can convert a true fullscreen 4:3 to Widescreen, but you lose a LOT of image area. Let me know if you want details on that, and I'll show you how. Anyhow..onto the coversion details:

To convert your 4:3 letterboxed video to 16:9, you have to remove the letterboxing. Since your new at this, you'll probably want to use a GUI to do this, as it's easier to discern the crop values by clicking than guessing. Once you get good at this, you can eyeball a video at 20 paces. For now we'll start you with good old VirtualDub. Open the .AVS file in VirtualDub.

Select VIDEO | FILTERS.
Click the ADD button.
Find the Null Transform filter and select OK
This will make the CROPPING button available. Click it.
Increase the value of Y1 Offset, and Y2 Offset to remove any letterboxing
The values that Y1 and Y2 give you are the amounts that you will crop from the top and bottom of your video. As a rule, movies that are 2.35:1 should crop about 104 from the top and bottom. Movies that are 1.85:1 will usually crop about 60 from top, and 60 from bottom. 4:3 movies (1.33) are of course full screen. When you have your Y1, and Y2 values, cancel and close VirtualDub.

To crop the letterboxing from your video, you use the CROP command. The syntax is as follows: Crop(left,top,width,height). In this example, lets assume your working on a 2.35:1 aspect ratio movie, and your Y1, and Y2 values were both 104. Your command would look like this:

Crop(0,104,480,272)

At this point you may be thinking, where did I get the 272 from? You have to do a tiny bit of math here. Your cropping 104 of top, and 104 off the bottom. 104x2=208. You then subtract the amount your cropping (208), from the original height of the movie, which for SVCD, is 480, so:
480-208=272. If your Y1 value was equal to 100, and your Y2 value was equal to 106, then we would subtract 206 from 480 (480 - (100+106) = 274 ).

The first value in the crop command (0), indicates we want to crop 0 from the left side of the video (we don't want to crop any from the sides so this value is usually 0). The next value is the amount to crop off the top (104). That leaves us with a video that is 480-104= 376 pixels high. If we took all 376 pixels though, we'd have a movie with a black bottom, since we haven't removed the bottom letterbox. If we subtract another 104 from 376, we get 272. With 272, if we take 272 from the video, it basically discards the letterbox portion at the bottom because it takes only the next 272 pixels, but not the last 104 pixels. If I've lost you completely, don't worry. You don't have to understand it to use the command. Just remember that the LEFT, and WIDTH values can't be more than your movies original width (you can't crop what isn't there). The same is true for your TOP and HEIGHT values. For SVCD, they can't be more than 480. Ok, crop command in hand, we would make a script that looks like the one below. Since we don't want to crop every single CLIP (very tedious), we just put the CROP command at the bottom. This way it crops ALL of our output:

LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
video=Mpeg2Source("dvd2avi.d2v")
audio=WavSource("audio.wav")
AudioDub(video,audio)
Clip1=Trim(0,30000)
Clip2=Trim(30079,0)
Clip1++Clip2
Crop(0,104,480,272)

Last but not least, since we've cropped our video, we now want to resize it to a DVD resoution. We add the BicubicResize command to finish it off:

LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
video=Mpeg2Source("dvd2avi.d2v")
audio=WavSource("audio.wav")
AudioDub(video,audio)
Clip1=Trim(0,30000)
Clip2=Trim(30079,0)
Clip1++Clip2
Crop(0,104,480,272)
BicubicResize(720,480)

This will output a video that is 720 pixels wide, by 480 high. Just as an FYI, if you have a movie that is 1.85:1, then your crop would look something like this: Crop(0,60,480,360). Again, 0 from the left side (keeping all 480 width), 60 cropped from the top, keep the next 360 pixels, and discard the last 60 height.

To answer your question about playing on 4:3, encoded properly, the output should automatically be letterboxed on a 4:3 television, and of course 16:9 on a widescreen TV.

[ChrissyBoy]

Just watching this thread - total respect to DJRumpy for his knowledge transfer!!!!

[zx7ninja]

Just watching this thread - total respect to DJRumpy for his knowledge transfer!!!!

Absolutely! DJRumpy, you are extremely knowledgeable. Due to your help everything has been successful every step of the way. And with excellent quality too.
I see now how it's avisynth doing the audio. I don't know how I didn't see that before, it was right in front of me. Thanks for pointing that out.
Now i'm off to try to finish this off. I don't know about anybody else, but I find this VERY enjoyable to do. Well, here's to success, and i'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again for your help. It's appreciated greatly.

[DJRumpy]

Thnx ChrissyBoy. I appreciate it!

zx7ninja, since I left out the AudioDub command in the original script, you had no audio input to your encoder, which is why you probably missed the audio piece, or at least it could have contributed to the fact that the audio was even being handled by AVISynth. I usually just resample in AVISynth using the ResampleAudio, as it does an excellent job of it. Once you get this process down, you should refer to yourself as adept at these conversions. This is probably one of the more difficult conversion processes to do manually. Considering your rejoining multiple overlapped mpegs, sync'ing audio, converting aspect ratios, resizing, and resampling audio all at once. This thread grew very detailed over the course of the discussion.

Don't feel odd. I love doing conversions like this too. I find it weirdly relaxing writing the script, figuring the crop values, etc. Once you get the nack for it, you wont need the GUI anymore. Good luck on the rest, and let us know how it turns out!

[zx7ninja]

DJRumpy,
OK, everything went fine. The video converted beautifully, the cropping went great. The trim command worked great. The picture quality is excellent. But I only have one last question.
From how I understand it, using audiodub in my avs wil combine the audio and video back together? I encoded with all the proper video, audio, trim and crop commands mentioned above, and got an mpv video file, but no audio. Of course, I have the audio box in CCE unchecked, as I am afraid if I do check it, then CCE will encode the audio also, even though avisynth is doing it. I'm not sure if that's how it works or not, but that's why i'm trying to learn. I do not see an option where I can set CCE to output an audio file and not convert. I mean that there is no "do not convert audio" or similar option.
Remember, i'm trying to get separate streams to input into maestro.
The answer to this is probably right under my nose again, and i'm just not seeing it. But like I said, i'm learning.
I look forward to your help again, and hopefully this will be the last hurdle to overcome. Thanks again for any help you could give.

[DJRumpy]

You want to leave the Audio checked (enabled) in CCE. This is necessary to convert the input WAV file, that we linked in AVISynth using the AudioDub command, to MPEG-1 Layer-2 Audio. You can set the 'Mode' to Stereo, Dual Channel, or Joint Stereo. I usually use Joint Stereo. Make sure the SampleRate is set to 48Khz (48,000Hz) for DVD projects.

It will produce an M2V (Video) file, and an MPA (Audio) file.

These can be multiplexed using anything like TMPGEnc's FILE | MPEG Tools |Simple Multiplex tool, or you simply import them into almost any DVD Authoring program. Most of the higher end programs will demultiplex an MPEG into their component Video, and Audio streams anyway, so your actually saving time by leaving them seperate.

If I loose you anywhere in this discussion, or even if you just want something clarified, don't hesitate to ask. All of these details can be a little overwhelming.

[zx7ninja]

DJRumpy,
Argh. Yet another problem rears it's head.
Everything in the conversion process went beautifully. Everything for the video is perfect, as it was before. The audio came out perfect this time also. The audio and video quality is amazing!
But, when I go to import into maestro, i'm getting the dreaded temporal references in gop "insert gop# here) are out of order error that many other people seem to have gotten.
I've done a search here, and on doom9, and there are a lot of posts regarding this error. Some suggestions for possible fixes were made, but as of yet I haven't been able to fix the problem. The problem occurs in defferent authoring programs, and with other encoders, so it seems to not be a maestro or CCE specific problem. It was mentioned that something was set wrong with pulldown, or something in the pulldown process went wrong. This is what i'm using:

PullDownBatchFE 1.0
PullDown 0.99d

I have tried the default settings, which is nothing in options checked, and I get the error.
I tried changing the field order, and I get the error.
I tried changing the stream to interlaced, but leaving frames progressive, and I get the error.

These were all suggestions in posts, and none of them worked. I even tried reencoding from scratch, and that didn't work.

I'm wondering if, even though the problem is not encoder specific, maybe it's a problem in the WAY the file was encoded originally. These are my CCE settings:

Add sequence end code: checked
Upper field first: checked

M=3
N/M=4
GOP header every (1xN) frames
SEQ header every 1 GOP

All other options in video: not checked

Quality tab:
Deault settings. Progressive frame flag not checked.


3:2 pulldown detection: not checked.
Aspect ratio: 16:9

Thant's all. I'm hoping you know something about this problem, and can lend a hand. I could not get a successful fix from the other posts. Thanks for any help you could give.

[zx7ninja]

Hey, it worked! I tried it again, with slightly different settings in the bitrate, and with no filters.(there were a couple on by default) The file loaded up fine, with no errors. All of my other settings were the same as above. I'm wondering if it's on of those "misleading errors" that programs give out from time to time, which have seemingly nothing to do with the problem.
Maybe my min bitrate was too low? Well, whatever it is, the settings work great for me now.
The picture is a LITTLE stretched on a regular tv, noone else would notice it, but i'm a perfectionist, so i'll see it. But oh well. Maybe i'll find a way to tweak it a little. If not, it's good enough. It plays back great on a widescreen tv. Can't ask for anything more there.
I will say though, that the colors are a little dull. There were no color issues in any of the other encodes.(the audio might have been out of sync, or even nonexistant, but the colors were very vibrant). I assume it's because I turned off those filters. Well, now that the whole encoding process is figured out, time to play with all the filters and see what I can come up with.
Thank you for your VERY informative tutorials, DJRumpy. It is very appreciated. This was/is quite an undertaking, and I don't think I would've been able to get it done without your help.
Of course, if you have any further tips or tricks you might know, my ears are open. And i'll definitely keep playing around to improve the color quality/overall quality(although it's great as it is) and post my results. I know many people interested in doing the conversion would be interested.
Again, thanks!

[DJRumpy]

The stretched video, on a 4:3 television shouldn't happen. Check your DVD player's settings regarding the output type. If the television is 4:3, then ensure the DVD player is set to output to a 4:3 television. Remember if you switch the television, you must also change this setting on the dvd player to match the display's aspect ratio (16:9, or 4:3 )

I'm guessing the video looked a little tall?

The bled out colors shouldn't have happened. You can bump up the saturation with AVISynth.

No idea as to what caused your temporal references error. I occasionally get these in Spruce, but they are not a fatal error, and I've noticed no problem with the output as a result.

[zx7ninja]

Well, I went through and double checked my settings, seems that the color problem was not a problem with the encode after all. Looks like someone majorly changed my settings on the tv(brightness, sharpness,color etc....). I changed them all back and now the color is beautiful again.
And yes, the picture is a little tall. Altough, only bu slightly. Noone i've shown it to has noticed it unless I point it out to them. I've checked the DVD unit's settings also, and they are all correct. I'm going to try a 20 inch 4:3 tv I have boxed up in the basement to see if maybe it's the tv itself. If I still have a problem, i'll try a friends DVD player and see if it makes a difference.
About the temporal references error, i've done some playing around and found that whenever I get the error, if I reencode with a higher minimum bitrate the resulting file does not give me an error. Which I found interesting, as the error seems to have nothing to do with that. Maestro will refuse to import the file for me if it gets the error, so maybe trying another authoring program will be beneficial. All in all though, i'm happy witht he results so far, and i'll post what I find out about everything.
Thanks again!

[DJRumpy]

You might try looking at the generated IFO using IFOEdit. There will be a setting for the main video's aspect ratio, and how to treat it on a 4:3 TV. It's been a LONG time since I used IFOEdit, but hopefully someone can give you more specifics. The setting directly affects how a DVD Player should handle a widescreen mpeg, on a 4:3 display. It's possible your authoring software isn't setting this option correctly.

[cava99]

hi there i am trying to convert and svcd mpeg from 480x480 to pal 720x520 48khz

im using main concept in order to do this i run into problems, the porblem is when i convert about 2 thirds into the conversion it freezes thinking it might have been a bad rip i re ripped it but i had the same results i even did a check for bad frames but there was no luck there i didnt find ne bad frames.

so i cut one of the mpegs to a small file size about 50 megs and at around the same protion of the conversion the freeze happened again so my problem was finding a suitable converter which i havnt been able to do so far so i though about trying to find and authoring package that will do this for me

i tried u lead dvd moviefactory it encodes fine but th file size is o large to burn on to one disc it doesnt change the video bitrate which main concept allows me to do

[DJRumpy]

cava99, I've replied to your private message about this. If you want to continue discussion on this in the forum, please go into the Advanced forum, and create a new post. This thread belongs to someone else and their problem. You'll have better luck with responses with your own topic.