capture from old film - help

[Ardani]

Hi all,

I have got old Super8 film which is playable on old film projector. As films doesn't last that long. I'd like to transfer some of the films I have got into VCD or DVD.

now, the projector that plays the film doesn't have any analog output and the only solution I could think of is playing the film and project it to the wall and at the same time record it using my Dv Cam. I know that I will probably loose alot of quality but i can't think of any other ways.

is there anybody who has done this or has any idea to overcome this problem?

Any suggestions are greatly appriciated.

regards,
Dan

[housepig]

if you do a Forum Search for the search terms "8mm" or search the posts from user mkelley, you'll find a couple of threads on this topic.

plenty of users have done it themselves with a dv cam with good results - search for those threads, you'll find some good tips.

[gadgetguy]

Essentially that is the only way I know of to "transfer" from film to camcorder. However, unless you have a room that can be made pitch black and has no reflective surfaces other than the screen, I suggest you build yourself a "transfer cabinet". Get a big box, at least 3 ft square. (Smaller may give you trouble focusing, depending on your equipment.) Paint one inside wall with a semi-gloss white for the screen. Paint all other inside surfaces flat back. On the opposite wall from the screen cut two holes. One the same size as the projector lens and the other the same size as the camcorder lens. Make the holes as close together as your equiptment will allow and near the center. The object is to keep what is projected on the "screen" to have as little distortion as possible. You put the projector lens in one hole of the cabinet and the camcorder lens in the other hole. I think you can probably figure out the rest. The purpose of the box is to make sure there is no outside or reflected light to wash out or obscure the projection. I transferred some film to VHS several years ago in a room that I thought was pitch black, but there were several items in the room that had reflective surfaces on them. While making the recording I didn't notice anything unusual, but when I played the tape back, in bright scenes the screen was washed out from it's own reflected light, or maybe the reflection was directed into the camcorded. Either way, the problem was eliminated after building myself a "transfer box".
Hope this helps...

[supatrupa]

I'm not sure if we can put links in here or not, but there was a guide from TOMS HARDWARE that goes through many details of the process you talk about.

Here it is:

http://www.tomshardware.com/video/20030530/index.html

I've actually used a DV camera pointed at a white board, running 16mm Woody Woodpecker. I made sure the image was sharp and contrast was good and didn't care about flicker. I used a VDUB filter to remove the flicker and was amazed at the end result.

[mkelley]

The biggest "trick" to all this is to use a variable speed projector -- there are still a few used ones floating around in the Ebay world.

Using variable speed will get rid of all the flicker -- you just need to turn it *slightly* slower (if I remember right). It won't affect the sound, if you have sound films (indeed, many sound projectors do have variable speed on them).

BTW, most of the major transfer houses still don't have synced shutter projectors (the only way to *truly* get a completely perfect film to video transfer) as these are enormously expensive ($100K and UP) and niche items nowadays when it comes to 8 and 16mm. What do they do? Project the film and video it, just like you are going to do. It comes out pretty damn good.

While I wouldn't go so far as to build a transfer box as the previous poster suggests, it would be a great idea to post process the DV to smooth out the exposure and perhaps clean it up somewhat. Using something like the After Effects PB package you could even steady down the footage with stabilization (Ah, "fix it in post" -- my favorite motto :>) AE has some truly wonderful tools for this (like their autoexposure correct -- great for timelapse photography, it also does wonders for flicker problems as well).

[housepig]

it would be nice if someone who has had success with doing it themselves would write a guide for the Guides section - it seems like this question is popping up a lot lately.

I've got to figure out what I'm going to do with a reel of 35mm film that was just given to me... I think I need to build a light box just to take a look at it.

[mkelley]

There was a great guide on the net that I found about three years ago, and damned if I can't find the URL anymore (and Google doesn't turn it up -- either I'm just too old to remember how I found it in the first place, or it's gone the way of the Dodo). It had some wonderful advice, including getting some good film lubricant (*very* very important to lubricate these old films when doing this -- the stuff is still available, but only through mail order. I bought myself a quart for my intended film to video project).

If I ever Get Around to It I'm going to transfer (yet again) my many hours (yep, about 20 or so) of 8 and Super 8 films onto DV -- last transfer was onto betacam, but I think I can do an even better job this time. That was to be my summer project until DVD burning reared its ugly (well, not so ugly :>) head and got me sidetracked into converting all my video into DVD. But I may still do it in a month or so and if no one has written the definitive guide I may give it a shot after my experiences (I'm actually getting a little excited to think about what After Effects can do with some of this footage).

[housepig]

There was a great guide on the net that I found about three years ago, and damned if I can't find the URL anymore

slightly OT - this is one thing I like Adobe Acrobat for.. when I find a good guide or a good reference page, I fire up Acrobat and capture the pages into a .pdf document.

[hootie29]

I have just completed transfering my family 8mm films to DVD. I was very pleased with the outcome. Here is what I used.

Chinon Cine projector 8mm/super 8mm variable speed (yard sale find $3.00)
Sony DCR-TRV33 digital camcorder
Vegas Video for capture
TMPGEnc for mpeg2 conversion
MyDVD for menus and burning

First some of the film was dirty from years of viewing and being handled ( fingerprints and dust/mold). I had to clean those. I used 90% alcohol to clean and Pledge furniture polish to lubricate and help preserve. If you have to clean your film you will need to build a holder approx. 3 ft long with a blank reel on one end and the movie reel on the other end. The reason for the distance is you need to allow the alcohol and Pledge to dry completely before rolling the film on the empty reel, if it is not dry you may ruin you film.

Transferring the film to PC
I set the projector 2ft. from the screen( a box with 5 sheets of plain white paper taped to it to prevent bleed through). Then I set my dv camcorder to the left hand side almost infront of the projector. The TRV33 is small enough to fit there. I then set my TRV33 to Color Slow Shutter (this function enables you to record color images in a dim place). I adjust the speed on the projector to reduce the flicker and I start recording the films.

After all the films were transferred I arranged them in order in Vegas Video then added music in the background rendered the project as a .avi file. Encode the .avi file in TMPGE as a .mpeg2 file. I then imported the mpeg2 file in MYDVD split into scenes and burnt to DVD.

The final movie turned out pretty good, but there was 1 noticable difference the movie was in focus and clear but it was a little darker than the original movies. Not dark as in filmed in a dark room but the whites in the movie had a slight yellowish tint I assumed it was from the process of shooting to a screen then recording to a camcorder. The main thing is all my family now has a copy of the movie and for some of them it was the first time they have ever seen it and I feel good about being able to give them memories of parents/grandparents/relatives that have passed away.

Hope this answers some of your questions and helps your family relive memories.

[mkelley]

I
The final movie turned out pretty good, but there was 1 noticable difference the movie was in focus and clear but it was a little darker than the original movies. Not dark as in filmed in a dark room but the whites in the movie had a slight yellowish tint I assumed it was from the process of shooting to a screen then recording to a camcorder. .

I'm not familiar with Vegas Video, but After Effects could fix that problem (and many others) in a quick minute. Indeed, some of the footage I've experimented with actually looks better than the original (I still haven't done anything with stabilization, but that's next on my list).

It's a good summary, but I would suggest anyone wanting to clean and lubricate their films use a solution for this purpose -- I've heard of the Pledge trick but I also know the film solutions are formulated somewhat differently (they also don't harm the film if it winds before drying, although it's always a better idea to have it dry as you suggest). In the old film days we used to coat our cotten fabric gloves with this stuff and then just lightly grasp the film as it played through the projector -- it would clean and lubricate even as we played it.

[hootie29]

I guess I shouldn't have said yellow tint it is more like a old movie type tint . I tried Virtual Dud filters but wasn't happy with the finished product. When everyone saw the movie they just assumed it was from the films being 30 years old. I guess i was more critical because I made the DVD.

I researched alot on the net about cleaning/lubricating and came to the conclusion the alcohol/pledge would work for me and it did make a huge difference. As a matter of fact just lubricating the film cut down on alot of film jumping. Here are some links I used during my process.

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/moviefilmlubrication.html

http://www.8mmfilmstock.com/transfer.html

http://www.brienposey.com/kb/film_to_dvd.asp

[FL350innh]

Ok Guys,
This is a bit long winded.... This is what I started out with to do my film xfers.

http://www.1-888-camcorder.com/transferkit.html?source=overture

It's a simple multiplexer that does a very good job. I do film xfers for a small biz, My best friend makes telescopes, he looked at the multiplexer and told me he could make something better. Well after 2 months in his shop and a lot of test I have two he made for me. They work better then the original, But not by much. Before anyone asks, Sorry he's not making any more since the ones he made for me took so much time. Here is a few things I do...

I have three 8mm projectors (I got mine at a Yardsale and my brother in law works at a school that was throwing out a bunch of old projectors!), They have different pictures depending on the film. The optics, and brightness are different between them. One has variable speed as well. Depending on the condition of the film and some initial testing I'll use the projector that gives the best overall quaility. I have three cam corders I use. One is an old VCR (Analog) based full sized camcorder. This one works well because of the manual controls and it's LOW lux rate. I hook it through a digital converter and xfer the DV the the computer. I have a Sony Digital 8 TRV-140 and a Sony Mini DV 9000. Depending on the CCD needed I'll switch between them for the cap and just use FW to xfer to the computer. Audio is just a simple set or RCA jacks from the projector to the capturing device. The biggest thing to get the hang of is; playing with the film speed or the camcorders shutter speed. Make sure you use manual for most of your caps. Auto focus, brightness, levels, etc if set to auto get all wacked. Especially in digital. My old camcorder makes really nice warm captures. Don't ask me why but when I use a wide angel lens on it and play abit with zoom the picture is almost flawless. I've done the wall thing and it can work.... But you can get better results by using a card board box, paint it flat black inside Cut the bottom out and use different papers (That's the part you have to play with) and run your projector like an old rear projection TV against the back of the paper. After you get a good picture turn off the lights, setup the tripod and cap. I used towels and sheets to block relections and glare. But I must confess it was more obsession then nessecity... BTW, I found that having the room totally pitch black made the caps come out a bit washed.... If you have $3500.00 There are 8mm film scanners with DVC's built in... But the results I'm getting now I'm very happy with.