Suggestion for DVD to AVI / WMV

[CaseNote]

I've searched around the forums and have found some half answers and solution to my question but am looking for a good suggestion or starting place. I am fairly new at encoding so please bare with me!!

I chose to post this is this forum rather than the "media player" forum because this is actually about going from DVD to AVI / WMV but with the specified constrictions.

I have an Xbox 360 as a media player:
1) I have lots of DVD's that I want to add to my video library on the Xbox.
2) A lot of these DVD's have subtitles and are in foreign languages.
3) Some of these DVD's have 5.1 and DTS audio

The Xbox 360 console supports the following for AVI:
File extensions: .avi, .divx
Containers: AVI
Video profiles: MPEG-4 Part 2 (Simple Profile and Advanced Simple Profile)
Video bit rate: 5 Mbps with resolutions of 1280 × 720 at 30 fps. See the question about max bit rate, resolution, and frames per second.
Audio profiles: Dolby® Digital (2 channel and 5.1 channel), MP3
Audio max bit rate: No restrictions. See the question about max bit rate, resolution, and frames per second.

The Xbox 360 console supports the following for WMV:
File extensions: .wmv
Containers: ASF
Video profiles: WMV7 (WMV1), WMV8 (WMV2), WMV9 (WMV3), VC-1 (WVC1 or WMVA) in simple, main, and advanced up to level 3
Video bit rate: 15 Mbps with resolutions of 1920 × 1080 at 30 fps. See the question about max bit rate, resolution, and frames per second.
Audio profiles: WMA7/8, WMA9 Pro (stereo and 5.1), WMA Lossless
Audio max bit rate: No restrictions. See the question about max bit rate, resolution, and frames per second.

I want to know some suggested software or processes for taking my DVD's with DTS or 5.1 audio & subtitles, and making them into either a AVI or WMV of good quality.

Thanks so much for reading this and I hope I can get some good feedback,
Case

[minerva.thegift]

Thanks for the well thought out post. Where are you getting your Xbox 360 information from, your own tests or some official source? I ask because I also have a 360 but have never really played around with playing videos with it (I just hook up my computer instead) but it is something I've considered.

To clarify, how exactly is your 360 set up? It it connected via wired ethernet to the rest of your home network (including whatever computer you are using to encode the video) or do you have some other set up?

Also, you mention HD sizes (such as the max size of 1280 X 720 for .avi video) but you talk about DVDs - do you also have Blu Rays or HD-DVDs that you want to convert? (This would, of course, require a Blu Ray and/or HD-DVD drive on your PC - I'm sure you know that but this is a note for other people who might read this forum thread.)

I can tell you that for DVDs I've used MeGUI (a graphical front end for the command line based mencoder) with great success but it is not exactly the most intuitive encoder out there. It has a lot of options for both audio and video encoding but it can be hard to set up the first time. Handbrake is a favorite around the forums and I've used it a bit with good success. It's generally straightforward and easy, but I don't know how well it works with Xbox 360s. Ripbot264 is great for Blu Rays (see my guide here) and I think it can also do DVDs fairly easily. It isn't quite as customizable and mainly works with the .mkv and .mp4 containers, but it might be able to do what you're looking for. There are many other encoders out there, but those are the ones I have any experience with. A search here on the forums for Xbox 360 compatible encoders brings up GOTSent (for converting other files, like .mkv files) but I've never used it before so I can't vouch for it. I'm sure others could chime in with other details (or a look through the guides here on the forum could turn up some more, too.)

Another option to consider is PS3 Media Server - even though it's meant for the Playstation 3, I've heard it can work with an Xbox 360, also (though I haven't tested it out much.) This would give you the added benefit of a wider range of codec/container options (since the media server transcodes it on the fly to a format the device can handle.) This might not work for you, but it's something to consider. I see in your computer specs that you have a Mac running OSX 10.3 and the Mac version of PS3 Media Server only works on Intel-based Macs, so you might be out of luck there unless you have some other computer. The TwonkyMedia server is another similar program that does have more developed Xbox 360 support, but I don't have any experience with it so I don't know how well it works.

I prefer to use the x264 encoder and the .mkv container, but I do have a little bit of experience with DivX .avi files. As a general rule of thumb, I've seen DivX movies end up somewhere around 1.4 GB for a full movie. As for subtitles, that could be a real challenge - I don't know of any ways to get switchable "soft" subtitles into .avi files, you have to burn them in ("hard" subtitles.) I have no experience at all with .wmv files, so I'm afraid I can't help you there.

Hopefully some other people with more Xbox 360 experience can post and help you out, but that's something to get this thread going at least

[CaseNote]

Thanks so much for the lengthy reply!

I got the Xbox360 info from http://support.xbox.com/support/en/us/nxe/gamesandmedia/movies/videofaq/viewvideoplaybackfaq.aspx

Currently my Xbox is setup through an wireless connection, but eventually I plan to have it connected directly to an external HD via USB. That is the primary reason I want to get the DVD's in the best viewing and audio content as they can be.

Currently I am running TVersity to view the movies.. I have alot of Japanese and Korean movies that have great DTS audio, with subtitles. I'm fine with encoding them with hardsubs.

I also do have access to a HD-DVD drive, and have a 720p TV so as you may expect eventually I may get some HD content. But right now my main focus is archiving the DVD collection that i currently have to an Xbox compliant format.

I haven't tried MeGUI, but have worked with Handbrake a little and will look into it more. But unfortunately its main file formats are MP4 and MKV, which as you see from my link only supports 2 channel audio.

So the trick is either in AVI or WMVPro's.

I have access to both OSX and Windows XP OS's at my house, so I am ready to go all I need is a little direction.

Thanks so much for the time and effort you put into this post, I will try out your suggestions and see how they turn up. If successful I'll report back with positive details.

Case

[minerva.thegift]

Alright, it looks like .mp4 might work but I'm not sure. I looked around on the Handbrake wiki and found that there is a Xbox 360 profile. I took a screen shot of it here (mainly in case anyone else comes across this thread.)



Since I have an Xbox 360 and I'm curious about how this might work, I think I'll do some tests as well. I have a pretty fast computer (custom built Intel Core i7 920, 6GB RAM, etc.) so it generally doesn't take me more than an hour or two to convert a DVD. I'll do a bit of testing with various Handbrake options and let you know what I find out. For that matter, if it works I might even make a guide or something (since I see people asking about PS3 and Xbox 360 stuff fairly often and since I don't have a PS3, the Xbox 360 is what I can test.) I'll report later.

[minerva.thegift]

Alright, I've run some tests and I have some results. I ran several tests on a roughly 9.5 minute section of video that I ripped from a DVD (using AnyDVD) - this is just the first few chapters of a movie (once I saw that I could set which chapters to encode, I figured this would be a much faster way to test than doing a whole movie each time.) A few general notes - whenever I selected subtitles, it burned them in ("hard" subtitles.) I don't know of a way to get optional ("soft") subtitles. Also, I left each test at the standard settings except where indicated (so each one is at 2000 bitrate, etc.) Here's the info from Handbrake for each one:

Default Eng Subs
 -i "C:\DVDRip\Movie" -t 1 -c 1-3 -o "C:\Users\Name\Desktop\Xbox 360 Tests\DefaultEngSubs.mp4" -f mp4 -p  -e x264 -b 

2000 -a 1 -E faac -B 160 -R 48 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -s 1 -x level=40:ref=2:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:weightb=1:subq=9:direct=auto:b-

pyramid=1:me=umh:analyse=all:no-fast-pskip=1:deblock=-2,-1 -v 

DefaultAC3EngSubs.mp4
 -i "C:\DVDRip\Movie" -t 1 -c 1-3 -o "C:\Users\Name\Desktop\Xbox 360 Tests\DefaultAC3EngSubs.mp4" -f mp4 -p  -e x264 

-b 2000 -a 1 -E ac3 -B 160 -R 48 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -s 1 -x level=40:ref=2:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:weightb=1:subq=9:direct=auto:b-

pyramid=1:me=umh:analyse=all:no-fast-pskip=1:deblock=-2,-1 -v 

MKVAC3EngSubs.mkv
 -i "C:\DVDRip\Movie" -t 1 -c 1-3 -o "C:\Users\Name\Desktop\Xbox 360 Tests\MKVAC3EngSubs.mkv" -f mkv -p  -e x264 -b 

2000 -a 1 -E ac3 -B 160 -R 48 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -s 1 -x level=40:ref=2:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:weightb=1:subq=9:direct=auto:b-

pyramid=1:me=umh:analyse=all:no-fast-pskip=1:deblock=-2,-1 -v

MKVAC3EngSubs2Pass.mkv
 -i "C:\DVDRip\Movie" -t 1 -c 1-3 -o "C:\Users\Name\Desktop\Xbox 360 Tests\MKVAC3EngSubs2Pass.mkv" -f mkv -p  -e x264 

-b 2000 -2  -a 1 -E ac3 -B 160 -R 48 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -s 1 -x level=40:ref=2:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:weightb=1:subq=9:direct=auto:b

-pyramid=1:me=umh:analyse=all:no-fast-pskip=1:deblock=-2,-1 -v

XviDAC3EngSubs2Pass.mp4
 -i "C:\DVDRip\Movie" -t 1 -c 1-3 -o "C:\Users\Name\Desktop\Xbox 360 Tests\XviDAC3EngSubs2Pass.mp4" -f mp4 -p  -e 

xvid -b 2000 -2  -a 1 -E ac3 -B 160 -R 48 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -s 1 -v

XviDAC3EngSubs.mp4
 -i "C:\DVDRip\Movie" -t 1 -c 1-3 -o "C:\Users\Name\Desktop\Xbox 360 Tests\XviDAC3EngSubs.mp4" -f mp4 -p  -e xvid -b 

2000 -a 1 -E ac3 -B 160 -R 48 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -s 1 -v

XviDAVIAC3EngSubs.avi
 -i "C:\DVDRip\Movie" -t 1 -c 1-3 -o "C:\Users\Name\Desktop\Xbox 360 Tests\XviDAVIAC3EngSubs.avi" -f avi -p  -e xvid 

-b 2000 -a 1 -E ac3 -B 160 -R 48 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -s 1 -v

XviDAVImp3256kbps.avi
 -i "C:\DVDRip\Movie" -t 1 -c 1-3 -o "C:\Users\Name\Desktop\Xbox 360 Tests\XviDAVImp3256kbps.avi" -f avi -p  -e xvid 

-b 2000 -a 1 -E lame -B 256 -R 0 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -v

XviDAAC160.mp4
 -i "C:\DVDRip\Movie" -t 1 -c 1-3 -o "C:\Users\Name\Desktop\Xbox 360 Tests\XviDAAC160.mp4" -f mp4 -p  -e xvid -b 2000 

-a 1 -E faac -B 160 -R 0 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -v

I then put all of these on a USB drive and put that into my XBox 360. I first made sure that I had all the most recent updates. When I went to the movies option in the My Xbox menu, I navigated to the folder the test files were in and only 7 showed up - all the .mkv files weren't even recognized as movies. So much for the .mkv container Of the rest, only 3 of them actually played (the others gave me an error about codecs not being supported.) The three that actually worked were:
DefaultEngSubs.mp4
XviDAVIAC3EngSubs.avi
XviDAVImp3256kbps.avi

The good news is it looks like you can make .avi files that have AC3 (6 channel 5.1 surround) and "hard" subtitles - all using Handbrake. The not-so-good news is that these files will be pretty large.

For what it's worth, here's the MediaInfo data on that XviD .avi with AC3 audio:

Format                           : AVI
Format/Info                      : Audio Video Interleave
File size                        : 168 MiB
Duration                         : 9mn 41s
Overall bit rate                 : 2 425 Kbps

Video
ID                               : 0
Format                           : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile                   : Simple@L3
Format settings, BVOP            : No
Format settings, QPel            : No
Format settings, GMC             : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix          : Default (H.263)
Codec ID                         : XVID
Codec ID/Hint                    : XviD
Duration                         : 9mn 41s
Bit rate                         : 1 966 Kbps
Width                            : 708 pixels
Height                           : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 23.976 fps
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.241
Stream size                      : 136 MiB (81%)
Writing library                  : XviD 1.1.2 (UTC 2006-11-01)

Audio
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AC-3
Format/Info                      : Audio Coding 3
Codec ID                         : 2000
Duration                         : 9mn 41s
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 448 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 6 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Stream size                      : 31.1 MiB (18%)
Alignment                        : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration             : 32 ms (0.77 video frame)

[CaseNote]

Hell Yes!

Size is not too much of an issue. It was just the compatibility!

Just wondering if you played the file with 6 channels?

Minerva thanks so much for taking the time to look into this, it looks like Handbrake is where I'm going to focus my attention.

Also hardsubs are the only way Xbox can handle them, but thats fine especially with movies that are not in my native language. I will never want to watch them without subs.

On an unrelated, but helpful sidenote I did use GOTSent last night to convert a mkv to avi, and it seemed to do a pretty decent job.

Again thanks so much for your time and effort, I'm going to get to encoding.

I'm sure I'll run into some problem. Ha!


Case

[minerva.thegift]

A slight disclaimer - I played the .avi file with AC3 5.1 surround sound audio, but I only have the basic stereo (white and red) outputs from my Xbox 360 and I had them hooked up to a stereo player. I don't have any real way of testing that it actually plays at full 5.1 surround. It is worth noting, however, that I saw options about 5.1 surround somewhere in the audio configuration settings, so that is promising. In any case, you might want to try your own sample clip (the first few chapters of some DVD rip) and see if you can get full surround out of it.

In any case, I'm glad this is working out for you Double check that an .avi XviD file with AC3 5.1 surround works for you on your Xbox 360. If it does, maybe I'll make a little guide or something so that whenever someone else asks about Xbox 360 conversion, I can point them to it

[lil_chris_chris]

[Bjs]

Might be worth adding this info link ... may be handy