VHS to DV - Audio not correct

[jlorelle]

I am capturing numerous VHS tapes to DV (thanks to help in the forum) and everything is working well. The only problem is that the audio does not always line up with the video. I am capturing from a VCR through a Sony camera and then firewire into the PC. I am using Pinnacle Studio to capture in DV format. What could be causing the audio to go off track - is it the VCR, software or the PC?

Thanks for your help.

[minidv2dvd]

play one of the videos where the audio has a sync problem in the camcorder alone and see if the problem is there. if it is then play the vhs tape and see if it's there also. you should be able to isolate where it occurs.

the only change i would suggest at the computer end is capturing the DVavi off of the cam tape with winDV and then importing into your editor. use the type II avi setting in the config menu.

[JohnnyMalaria]

The capture process can't create the delay (as far as DirectShow-based capture is concerned which is true in your case).

Most likely, it is the playback of the captured files that is problematic. I notice you have Vista. Software that isn't Vista aware can have audio playback issues. To see if this is the problem, you could try our software (see signature) - it lets you change some settings so the the Vista audio problems can be avoided (I'm not aware of other software that can let you do it).

Alternatively, send the captured files back to the camcorder and watch/listen to the video/audio via the camcorder. If they are in sync, then the files are OK. If not, then the files are the issue.

[jlorelle]

@minidv2dvd

Thanks for the reply - that was my 1st reaction. I tried it with winDV and got the same issue. I am not going from VHS to DV on tape, I am going directly to DV on the computer (the Sony is acting as a pass-through) so I can't play it on the camcorder but I will check it on the tape.

@JohnnyMalaria

Are you saying the problem is Vista? Should I try to import on a Mac or XP? Or can I move the already captured file to OSX or XP then it should play?

Thanks again.

[jlorelle]

@JohnnyMalaria

Sorry for the multiple posts. I downloaded your product and it looks comprehensive. I will read the help section but a few quick questions - Do I want AVI Type 2 or Raw DV? What format allows me to view in multiple OSes? Does the help screen discuss those Vista work-arounds?

My long term goal is to preserve this VHS tapes in perpetuity. I want my kids to have access to the raw files years from now if they want them. I am capable of creating DVDs, webifying, etc the media but I want to work from raw uncompressed and lossless material. Does that make sense? . Also, I am happy to pay or contribute if this does what I want but I saw that it was free for personal use. Is it 'free' for 30 days? If I like software then I am always happy to contribute.

Thanks again.

[thecoalman]

Are you saying the problem is Vista?.

I believe that is exactly what he is saying. For a quick check convert to WMV, MPEG or whatever, see if its still out of sync.

If it isn't then you'll just have to ignore it. When I'm editing on my XP machine I'll occasionally get out sync problems during playback of the preview (usually if I have too many programs open and nopt eonugh resources)but this is system issue. The file itself is fine as is the file that is created. It's not that uncommon.

[JohnnyMalaria]

@JohnnyMalaria

Sorry for the multiple posts. I downloaded your product and it looks comprehensive. I will read the help section but a few quick questions - Do I want AVI Type 2 or Raw DV? What format allows me to view in multiple OSes? Does the help screen discuss those Vista work-arounds?

Raw DV support is provided mainly for those who work cross-platform (Windows/Mac). The most common DV AVI format is Type-2.

I suggested our software so you can test the theory. Select an existing file (that you know causes the problem) and select Video Renderer for output. Then press the Run button. This will simply play the video just like a media player. Note if the video seems slow and/or the audio is erratic. Press the Reset button so that the software restarts with the default settings. This time, select the same file for input but don't select the output just yet. Click the large Configure... button. Check the Monitor audio output box and select the Use this audio device option. You will be able to view a list of audio devices on your computer. You may be surprised to see so many especially if you have only one! This is because there are a number of different "protocols" that the OS can use to talk to the soundcard. The most common is DirectSound and this happens to be the default that just about every DirectShow-based video software uses. Unfortunately, one of the major changes to Vista is the removal of DirectSound. Instead, Vista emulates it which can create all kinds of problems. In the list of devices, choose one that doesn't have DirectSound in its name. On my systems, I have the integrated Intel audio and one option for it in the list is SigmaTel Audio. Close the configuration window and select the Video Renderer for output. Press Run as before and note if the playback performance is improved. If it is then you have a solution. Note, for editing, it doesn't matter.

If the problem still persists, try sending a captured video back to the camcorder as I suggested in my earlier reply. Also, try recording the VHS source to DV cassette and then capture from that, just to help troubleshoot.

Also, I am happy to pay or contribute if this does what I want but I saw that it was free for personal use. Is it 'free' for 30 days? If I like software then I am always happy to contribute.

Thanks again.

If you are using the software for private use then it is free and has no time limit. You just get an occasional nag when you close the program.

[edDV]

This calls for testing each step as suggested above.

1. Is it happening at the camcorder encode stage?
The way to test that is record to a DV tape and play it back from camcorder to the TV. If the audio is delayed here, it is happening during A/D or DV encode in the camcorder.

2. Capture issue?
Capture the DV stream to a DV-AVI file using WinDV.
Test the file playing back with the VLC player. VLC decodes independently of XP or Vista. Alternately test file playback on other PCs to see if audio is in sync at this point.

3. Pinnacle Studio Issue?
Import the file and test playback from the timeline. Export a test file and check for audio sync.
JohnnyMalaria is suggesting your version of Pinnacle Studio or another player may not be fully Vista compatible. Vista has a redesigned audio system that requires audio app updates. Vista's audio does not emulate an XP API well. I see audio problems with most of my older version audio apps like SoundForge, DigiDesign and various video editors. Updating to a Vista compatible version solves those problems.

I really approve of the Vista audio total rewrite. It works much better for signal routing and for selectively adjusting audio playback levels by stream. The downside is you need to update your apps.


PS: I didn't see JohnnyMalaria's last post until I posted this. His program is used similar to VLC to isolate DV-AVI file playback issues from Pinnacle Studio issues.

[jlorelle]

I will try to write to tape (I just have to find one somewhere in this house.) In the interim I imported on the Mac into iMovie (that program drives me nuts) and the audio was on track. I am also importing with JohnnyMalaria's app and I will see how that works out. I chose Type 2 DV with my sound card as the output monitor.

I also copied the suspect file to the Mac and tried it in QuickTime and it was still off.

[jlorelle]

@JohnnyMalaria

2nd post - I will give your suggestion a try. My test scene is 30 minutes into the video and I have to manually watch the video. I cannot navigate on the Type 2 AVI files (as your help manual confirms) so I should know soon. I exported that particular scene to a DV from QuickTime Pro but I don't trust the resultant file. I suspect that the file is bad as I watched it on the Mac and it was the same issue. Hopefully your app will resolve the issue. Thanks for your help.

[sparky11]

Your problem is not your card,i have a studio dv plus with tv out,since version seven),i have tried absolutely everything to get s/ware and hardware to work,no chance!! use the card with absolutely anything else (sony vegas 10/10 )doesnt crash and uses default wm firewire drivers for great capture and results.

[minidv2dvd]

since the op reported the file is out of sync on a mac also, that kinda rules out the os. i would carefully examine the original vhs tapes for a bad spot at the start of the out of sync audio as the pass-through cam is not likely to be the cause of the problem. but a dropout type pause in the tape may cause the sound card to be out of sync with the video capture card.

[jlorelle]

It seems to be confined to this machine or OS (Vista.) The tape is fine and I've tried multiple capture products and the audio is always off. I captured into the Mac with iMovie and the audio was good. It has to be related to Vista. I hope to resolve the problem because this is my primary and the Mac is only a laptop with a small hard drive.

[GLR1980]

There is an alternative solution to your audio-video sync problem although it will cost a bit. Invest in one of the many analog to digital converters on the market that have the ability to lock the audio to the video. I use a Canopus ADVC110 that works great with VHS conversions. I use Nero 7 software running on Windows XP Pro SP3 to capture in DV Type 2 because for some reason capturing direct to Studio would cause a lockup after a few minutes. I then send the resultant AVI file to Pinnacle Studio 11 for processing. I don't know if this will work in Vista. But, it may be worth a shot.

I'm currently converting a large number of family VHS-C tapes to DVD and in the process doing various corrections in Studio 11. The family will view them on DVD. However, in order to provide an alternative storage medium, I also record the same version in digital format to DV tape on my camcorder. In addition to your current efforts, you may wish to use DV tape as a supplemental archival method by simply going straight from your VCR to your camcorder. I suspect that you will have no audio-video sync problems in doing so. As an aside, if you can acquire a S-VHS VCR for output of your tapes and can use a S-VHS cable, you will see a considerable improvement in the video of your final product. Good luck.