Frustrated Sony HDR-SR12 Owner

[jehill]

Last November I purchased a fully loaded Dell XPS420 PC that includes a Blu-Ray drive. In March I purchased a Sony HDR-SR12 HandyCam with the expectation that I could save movies to Blu-Ray discs. I purchased a couple of Sony BD-RE discs and formatted them with Windows Vista Ultimate. I now have two UDF 2.5 formatted BD-RE discs that I can drag and drop files and folders to. I copied the AVCHD folder on the HandyCam to one of the discs. None of the following Sony software features work with the BD-RE disc with the files:

1. One Touch Disc Burn - Formats a blank DVD and writes AVCHD files directly from camera to DVD
2. Handycam Utility - Transfers AVCHD files from camera to PC HDD and registers files with Picture Motion Browser
3. Player for AVCHD - Plays AVCHD files found on camera or compatible media
4. AVCHD Creation - PMB feature that formats a blank DVD and writes AVCHD files to DVD from PMB files

What all of these features have in common is that they utilize the Picture Motion Browser (PMB) Media Check Tool, which recognizes the FAT32 formatted HDD in the camera, but does not recognize the UDF 2.5 formatted BD-RE media. Sony Help was no help at all. They advised that the above features only work with DVD media, which makes no sense at all to me. I have been reluctant to try DVD media. Could it be that the BD-RE discs need to be formatted in a different format? Any ideas?

-John

[Krispy Kritter]

You can get BD-RE information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD-RE

The main question here is what exactly are you trying to do? Vista has already formatted the discs and can read/write the discs, so they are functional. I assume what you are really wanting to do is take the video from your camera and burn it onto the BD-RE disc for playback on Blu-Ray player. In which case (just like with normal DVD), you will need to author a Blu-Ray compliant disc. For more detailed information look under HOW TO - Author.

Basically, you will need to move the video from the camera to your computer HDD (which can likely be accomplished with software provided by your camera). Then you will need to Author a disc, which is the process of getting your video into a format and file structure recognizable by a Blu-Ray player.

All you have right now, is a rewritable disc being used to store files like a large floppy disc. This is known as packet writing and is also supported on both CDRW and DVDRW media. But having the files on a particular media does not make them compatible with standalone players.

I'm sure the process and how all of the tools you listed above function, is covered in the user manual.

[jehill]

You can get BD-RE information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD-RE

I did that first.


The main question here is what exactly are you trying to do?

Use the features listed with a BD-RE disc.


Vista has already formatted the discs and can read/write the discs, so they are functional. I assume what you are really wanting to do is take the video from your camera and burn it onto the BD-RE disc for playback on Blu-Ray player. In which case (just like with normal DVD), you will need to author a Blu-Ray compliant disc.

Exactly, this is what "One Touch Disc Burn" and "AVCHD Creation" are supposed to do. Its just that they don't do it with BD-RE media. My apologies for not describing the features that I listed. I have edited the original post to provide that information.


For more detailed information look under HOW TO - Author.

I went there before my original post and didn't find anything that addressed my issues.


Basically, you will need to move the video from the camera to your computer HDD (which can likely be accomplished with software provided by your camera).

That is what the "Handycam Utility" does.


Then you will need to Author a disc, which is the process of getting your video into a format and file structure recognizable by a Blu-Ray player.

The "One Touch Disc Burn" and "AVCHD Creation" features do that with a blank DVD.

All you have right now, is a rewritable disc being used to store files like a large floppy disc. This is known as packet writing and is also supported on both CDRW and DVDRW media. But having the files on a particular media does not make them compatible with standalone players.

A DVD written using the "One Touch Disc Burn" or "AVCHD Creation" feature is supposed to be playable on a AVCHD compatible Blu-Ray player.


I'm sure the process and how all of the tools you listed above function, is covered in the user manual.

This comment touches a nerve with me, because I ALWAYS study the user manual first. Of course, there is no way that you would know that.

Again, my apologies for not describing the features that I listed in the original post. Perhaps your response would have been different if I had.

Yesterday I purchased a 5 pack of DVD-RW disks and verified that all of the features listed in my original post work fine with a DVD. I still can't believe that the features do not work with a BD-RE disk! Another thing that I noticed is that the root folder is BDMV instead of AVCHD (BDMV is a folder under AVCHD on the camera) and that the file extensions are different, for example m2ts instead of mts.

[Krispy Kritter]

The main question here is what exactly are you trying to do?

Use the features listed with a BD-RE disc.

Which means what? BD-RE discs can be used in two basic ways, first to store data (as you are currently doing with your discs under Vista), and second, as a medium to hold Blu-Ray video (which would be for video playback on Blu-Ray players). You are already using the first way, so technically you are already using the BD-RE features. The main feature of BD-RE over BD-R, is that it can be erased and reused, it doesn't pertain to HOW the data is stored.

The first is achieved via the packet writing strategy in XP and Vista (also available in Nero, Roxio, etc.). The second is achieved by burning the disc to meet the Blu-Ray spec (does NOT use packet writing). Try erasing the disc before attempting to create the AVCHD disc using PMB, maybe it doesn't recognize discs setup for packet writing use. And unless I'm mistaken, Blu-Ray discs don't use UDF 2.5 for movie support. UDF 2.5 was implemented to make the discs compatible with PC's for data storage.

Also, you can go here: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SYCustomerCare?storeId=10151&catalo...0551&langId=-1

Under the Technical Support section (upper middle), choose Manuals/Specs & Warranty...on the opening page, enter your model number (HDR-SR12) in the Model box under Option 1...on the next opening page, under Manuals at the bottom is a link for the Picture Motion Browser Support page (sorry I couldn't get a direct link because they are using Java). There are step by step instructions and a troubleshooting section.

The only obvious thing that I can see you are doing wrong is formatting the discs first (the authoring software shouldn't need formatted discs) and dragging and dropping the files onto them (the authoring software should create the necessary folders and place the video in the appropriate place).

[jehill]

The main question here is what exactly are you trying to do?

Use the features listed with a BD-RE disc.

Which means what? BD-RE discs can be used in two basic ways, first to store data (as you are currently doing with your discs under Vista), and second, as a medium to hold Blu-Ray video (which would be for video playback on Blu-Ray players). You are already using the first way, so technically you are already using the BD-RE features. The main feature of BD-RE over BD-R, is that it can be erased and reused, it doesn't pertain to HOW the data is stored.

If you check the properties of a commercial Blu-Ray disc, the file system is listed as UDF. Furthermore, you can look at the file structure. This tells me that data is stored on BD-RE disc regardless of how its used.


The first is achieved via the packet writing strategy in XP and Vista (also available in Nero, Roxio, etc.). The second is achieved by burning the disc to meet the Blu-Ray spec (does NOT use packet writing). Try erasing the disc before attempting to create the AVCHD disc using PMB, maybe it doesn't recognize discs setup for packet writing use. And unless I'm mistaken, Blu-Ray discs don't use UDF 2.5 for movie support. UDF 2.5 was implemented to make the discs compatible with PC's for data storage.

My BD-RE discs were initially un-formatted. When you try to use the "AVCHD Creation" feature with a blank or UDF 2.50 formatted BD-RE disc, you get the message, "Cannot write to this disc. Insert a recordable disc." When you try to use the "One Touch Disc Burn" feature, you get the message, "The disc inserted is not supported".


Also, you can go here: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SYCustomerCare?storeId=10151&catalo...0551&langId=-1

Under the Technical Support section (upper middle), choose Manuals/Specs & Warranty...on the opening page, enter your model number (HDR-SR12) in the Model box under Option 1...on the next opening page, under Manuals at the bottom is a link for the Picture Motion Browser Support page (sorry I couldn't get a direct link because they are using Java). There are step by step instructions and a troubleshooting section.

I have already exhausted this resource.


The only obvious thing that I can see you are doing wrong is formatting the discs first (the authoring software shouldn't need formatted discs) and dragging and dropping the files onto them (the authoring software should create the necessary folders and place the video in the appropriate place).

It is clear to me now that the authoring software that I have, namely the PMB, isn't intended for use with BD-RE discs. It works fine with DVD-RW discs. It first formats a DVD-RW disc in the UDF 2.01 file system and then writes the AVCHD files to the disc.

[jehill]

Now that I have had a chance to try out the HDR-SR12 features using DVD-RW media, here are my observations:

1. One Touch Disc Burn - Formats a blank DVD and writes AVCHD files directly from camera to DVD

Clips that have already been written to a DVD cannot be written again. Only new clips can be written. The destiantion disc is erased or re-formatted each time the feature is used; thus, you cannot add files to a disc that already has files on it. BD-RE media is not recognized.


2. Handycam Utility - Transfers AVCHD files from camera to PC HDD and registers files with Picture Motion Browser

Only works with camera or camera formatted memory stick.


3. Player for AVCHD - Plays AVCHD files found on camera or compatible media

Will play AVCHD files written to a DVD. BD-RE discs are not recognized.


4. AVCHD Creation - PMB feature that formats a blank DVD and writes AVCHD files to DVD from PMB files

The destination disc is erased or re-formatted each time the feature is used; thus, you cannot add files to a disc that already has files on it. Previous files must be written again if they are desired. BD-RE media is not recognized.

[Krispy Kritter]

Is it possible that you don't have the latest version of the software? The link above displayed several versions and all of the features that you have tested are supposed to work on BD-RE discs. I would contact Sony support about the BD-RE issue. The BD-RE discs should function the same as the DVD-RW you are currently using.

[jehill]

I called Sony phone help and asked if there was an update, but they said no. This was before my first post here. I just sent my first post to SonyListens@am.sony.com. We will see if I get better results via that path.

[jehill]

I just received the following response:

I apologize for the frustration that you have towards PMB not having BD-RE support. At this time we have not heard any plans to have BD-RE support to PMB yet.

This is the same story that I got from phone support.

[Krispy Kritter]

That's pretty pathetic. You would think as hard as Sony is pushing Blu-Ray, an easy way to get users is to allow them to use Blu-Ray discs. But then, what do I know, I'm just a stupid consumer.

[zoobie]

hmm

[aedipuss]

try running your files through tsremux and then copying the output folder to the bd-re.

[jehill]

tsremux sounds like a product for an experienced videographer. I am hesitant to go that route yet. Meanwhile, I see that the advertisements for all Somy BR players now state, "compatible with home made AVCHD DVDs". Clearly, they are promoting creation of AVCHD DVDs and not BD-RE or BD-R discs. I suspect that the issue is the complexity of saving multiple videos on the media. Note that the utilities provided do not have the capability to add files to a previously created AVCHD DVD. Your only option is to erase or re-format the disc and save all files again.

[jagabo]

Doesn't Sony require that all BD movie discs use AACS encryption? That would explain why you can't put your home movies on BD.

[jehill]

Today I downloaded and installed PowerDVD 8 Ultra. Not only can I playback the AVCHD DVDs that I have created, but I can playback the AVCHD files previously copied to a BD-RE disc from the HandyCam as well as files directly from the HandyCam! All include the the 5.1 ch sound that was recorded. The only downside for the latter two is that there is no menu. Playback starts from the first clip, so you have to increment to the desired clip. I also discovered that the recorded date and time is included as a subtitle.

[KCSunshine]

Have you tried VideoSTudio software by Corel? They have just released a new version Pro X2 that is suppose to handle all HD files including Blu-Ray.

They quote:

"New Blu-ray Import and Output – VideoStudio Pro X2 is among the first video editing software products to offer support for Blu-ray Disc® Movie Video (BDMV) import and output. Users can now import BDMV files directly from Blu-ray camcorders, making it easier to transfer files and get started with video-editing projects. Users can author HD video with motion menus and burn the video to Blu-ray Disc in single- or dual-layer format. Because compliant video is not re-rendered, users are ensured shorter encoding times and excellent picture quality.

Offering the most complete HD solution, VideoStudio Pro X2 lets users capture, edit, author and output video in all of the leading HD formats, including HDV™ (High-Definition Video), AVCHD™ (Advanced Video Codec High Definition), JVC™ HD camcorder (TOD) and BDMV."

Link is: http://www.newsgaze.com/Technology/09-Corel-launches-VideoStudio-Pro-X2.html

Just a thought, might be worth a look see, they have a free trial download as well.

[jehill]

No, I haven't tried VideoStudio. Perhaps its worth a look at the free trial download.

[abubasim]

In case anyone reading this thread searching for a solution to this problem: PMB requires an update to support Blue-ray authoring. You can get it from here:
http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/BDUW/

[jehill]

Thanks for the link! "By installing this program, you can create a Blu-ray Disc with high definition image quality videos recorded by Sony AVCHD video camera using the supplied PMB." Does this mean that you can use the PMB "AVCHD (HD) Creation" feature to write files to a BD with the same type index created when you use the feature with a DVD?

So far, all that I have been doing with my BD-RE discs is copying files directly from the camera to the discs for archival purposes. I have filled one disc and am working on the second. I have determined that in order to view STREAM files copied to the second disc with Cyberlink DVD 8 that it is necessary to copy the last PLAYLIST file and ALL associated CLIPINF files, even if the associated STREAM files aren't on the disc. You can determine wich CLIPINF files are required by viewing the PLAYLIST file. There will be a delay during Cyberlink DVD 8 playback until the first CLIPINF file with a STREAM file is encountered on the disc.

[zoobie]

multiAVCHD

[rhegedus]

I've got a HDR-XR106 - this is what I do:

1) Import the MTS files from the camcorder HD to your system.

2) Edit with PMB if needed and save the m2ts files.

3) If you did not need to edit, convert the MTS files to m2ts with TSRemux

4) Append (join) the m2ts files together with tsMuxer and select Create Blu-Ray disk as output.

5) Burn the BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders to disk with IMG Burn UDF 2.50