anyone have any info on the Hauppauge HD PVR?

[jagabo]

Yes, Rev C2 is an update from the original batch. It supposedly fixes the overheating/freezing problem.

TSMuxer works with the files. I've done things like demux with TSMuxer and remux into an MP4 container with Yamb/MP4Box. Yamb/MP4Box seems to have problems when the file size gets over 2 GB though.

If you install CoreAVC Pro it will include a version of Haali Media Splitter that works with the HD PVR's TS files (regular Haali might work too, not sure). You can then play them flawlessly (if your system is fast enough) with MPC. Maybe WMP and other players too (I sometimes can't seek in WMP).

Donald Graft has DGAvcIndex and an AvcSource() filter for AviSynth. I'm testing an encode with it and VirtualDub right now.

Hopefully some of the other programs will get updated soon. I hear that VideoRedo is being updated but there's no projected date for a new release.

I posted some other observations here: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic352666.html#1861638

[VegasBud]

jagabo,

Yes, I got the CoreAVC Pro package with Haali media splitter while I was waiting for my unit. MPC does work well, but I like the TotalMedia Theatre better. Just personal preference.

I'm experimenting with DGAvcIndex, AviSynth, and VirtualDub too, now that I have a little time to play around.

I've also heard VideoReDo was working on this. I'm looking forward to it. In the meantime, H264TS_Cutter is useable...if crude.

Thanks for the link to the other thread.

Edit:
removed incorrectly placed "the" before "VideoReDo".

[Caple]

This looks really cool.
I don't have HD here, but I believe it would accept my VCR component output.
Right?
Unfortunately I would have to pay $249 for the unit, $94 for shipping and maybe 60% on taxes.
But if it works, I may get it
Need to change my PVR-150 for something good and that work on Vista 64 with 4Gb ram.

[jagabo]

I don't know what your VCR in Brazil outputs. You talking about a high def digital VCR? I've captured NTSC 480i, 720p60, and 1080i30.

[Caple]

No, not high definition.
I asked about PAL-M and the Hauppauge support said it will work. I believe I mentioned about using a VCR as tuner and thatr I don't have HD signal, but the person who answered may mail didn't comment about that.
But if you captured 480i I probably will too. It's a VCR DVDR combo. so the component outputs may do the job.

[edDV]

No, not high definition.
I asked about PAL-M and the Hauppauge support said it will work. I believe I mentioned about using a VCR as tuner and thatr I don't have HD signal, but the person who answered may mail didn't comment about that.
But if you captured 480i I probably will too. It's a VCR DVDR combo. so the component outputs may do the job.

Most combo VCR DVDR models don't output vcr or tuner over the component connectors. They only work for DVD playback. Are you certain your's does?

If all you want todo is capture 480i/29.97 analog component, the Hauppauge HD PVR may be excessive. Have you looked at the ADS Pyro component to DV transcoder?
http://www.adstech.com/products/API-557-EFS/intro/api557_intro.asp?pid=API-557-EFS

[Caple]

Yes.
The svideo output is connected to my capture card and the component output is connected to my TV.
I can watch on the TV what I'm recording on the computer at the same time.

[edDV]

See the added comment above.
http://www.videoguys.com/pyroAVlink.html

[edDV]

Another possible solution begins shipping next month.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/videorecorder/

This one probably will work for 480i/29.97 analog component but not for PAL-M composite or S-Video.
Talk to BlackMagic.

[Caple]

The Pyro was one of my options.
I have another topic open asking for ideas of what to buy.
I was considering ADVC110, Pyro or a miniDV camcorder with pass through.
But I need schedule capability. Which I think can be done with those. Just need to look for a solution.
It seemed like this Hauppauge unit could make some improvements on my captures. More than ADVC110 and Pyro.

[edDV]

The Pyro was one of my options.
I have another topic open asking for ideas of what to buy.
I was considering ADVC110, Pyro or a miniDV camcorder with pass through.
But I need schedule capability. Which I think can be done with those. Just need to look for a solution.
It seemed like this Hauppauge unit could make some improvements on my captures. More than ADVC110 and Pyro.

The ADVC110 and MiniDV camcorder lack analog component inputs.

[Caple]

Yes, I know.
Gonna look for the API-558 unit (seems to be the latest).
It's about 100 bucks less than the Hauppauge.
I know the source quality is the most important thing. But I hope the Pyro has a good capture quality.
Thanx for the replies, edDV.

Need to look for scheduling options with the Pyro now

[jagabo]

Why do you want to capture component from VHS tape? It won't look any better than s-video caps. If you want to spend money you're better off getting a S-VHS deck with a line TBC. VCRs in that class also usually have analog noise filters and sharpeners. Or get a DVD recorder with a built in TBC. Those will do a lot more for your VHS recordings than the HD PVR.

[Caple]

I mentioned VCR because that's what I use as a tuner. Didn't say I want to capture VHS tapes.
Of course I'll do it ocasionally. But TV capturing is what I really want.
And that's why I mentioned I need scheduling options
Just need to find out the best option to substitute my PVR 150.

[jagabo]

Still, I doubt you'll see a significant improvement.

Also, keep in mind that the HD PVR records as h.264 and AAC in a transport stream (.TS) file. The files aren't real easy to work with at this point. This thread at AvsForum has links to some sample files you can take a look at (most are HD though):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1015617

[edDV]

The BlackMagic capture device also records to h.264 but SD resolutions are more manageable. For scheduling you will need PVR software that works in Brazil and also supports these capture devices. Search for PVR software on Brazil Google.

Since you are using the VCR tuner, the PVR software would need to use IR to change channels.

[Caple]

I just thought this unit would be cool.
And as I'm an enthusiast, I like to have cool hardware

Anyway, I'll keep looking for a new card to buy.
Don't really want to go Pixelview/Prolink, Encore or even Pinnacle

[Guest34343]

I updated DGAVCDec to handle the Hauppage streams when they are in default No IDR mode. Get alpha 32 and enable the "Treat I as IDR" option. Delete your existing INI file bfore starting DGAVCIndex.

[jagabo]

I updated DGAVCDec to handle the Hauppage streams when they are in default No IDR mode. Get alpha 32 and enable the "Treat I as IDR" option. Delete your existing INI file bfore starting DGAVCIndex.

Thanks for this. I'm getting much better seek times when scrubbing in VirtualDub. But... the load time is horrendous. A 24 minute 720p video took -- well I don't know how long to open. I gave up waiting after 10 minutes (one core of a quad core CPU was pegged at 100 percent) and went to bed. When I got up in the morning it had finished opening and I was able to start working on the video. Is this to be expected?

VirtualDub 1.8.2, simple AvcSource() script, Haali Media Splitter and CoreAVC Pro installed.

[Guest34343]

That's not expected.

There was a bad version of alpha32 up for a while. Please download the latest one and try it. Also, can you post a link to the unprocessed source stream and the resulting DGA file? Thank you.

[jagabo]

I downloaded and installed the latest version this morning. Still the same behaviour. Here are some more hints:

VirtualDub and Media Player Classic stall while opening an AVS script with only AvcSource(). The stall is about half the running time of the video. So a 30 second TS file will take about 15 seconds before it starts. A 30 minute file about 15 minutes. Each time one of these programs seeks back to the start of the video the same stall occurs.

I'm seeing a memory leak. As the AVS script previews in VirtualDub or Media Player Classic I can see the memory foot print increasing in Task Manager. When seeking in VirtualDub I can see the footprint increase with each seek.

After about 10 seeks in VirtualDub the program crashes with an out of bounds memory access in module VirtualDub. I can also see the memory footprint increase with each seek. Media Player Classic doesn't crash but after several seeks stops showing a picture and displays the error "CAVIStreamSynth: System exception - Access Violation at 0x0, reading from 0x0" in red text in the video window (I believe AviSynth is generating the message).

I can play the same TS file with Media Player Classic and KMPlayer without any problems. I have a recent version of CoreAVC installed and a recent versino of Haali Media Splitter (it came with CoreAVC). I have also used ffdshow's DirectShow h.264 decoder and seem the same behavior.

I can play the TS file with Window Media Player 11 and 6.4 if I use CoreAVC. But not with ffdshow.

I recorded a fresh 30 second 720p TS file with the ArcSoft Capture Module this morning. All the above behavior was seen with this file. I am uploading the clip to Yousendit.com right now. It looks like it will take 90 minutes or so. I'll update this post when I get the link...

Yousendit crapped out several times. I used SendSpace instead:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/tr8bys

After reverting to alpha 24 and going back to captures with "Simple GOP 4/32/128" via a GraphEdit, I can edit files again.

[Guest34343]

Please try alpha 33. Thank you for your test file and results.

[jagabo]

Got version 33. The AVS file opens quickly now. Seeking with VirtualDub takes maybe 1/3 of a second. This is much faster than v24 that I was using before.

The memory leak issue looks to be something about AviSynth. It happens with other source filters too. I don't think it has anything to do with AvcSource(). I just played a complex AVS script in WMP and it's footprint shot up to ~1 GB within 2 minutes. It didn't increase after that so I guess it's not a leak, just "usage".

Thanks for the quick update and the massively useful tools. I use DgIndex and Mpeg2Source() all the time too.

If you need any more test files let me know.

[Guest34343]

Thank you for your test results and stream. Your willingness to help improve the program is greatly appreciated.

The memory usage is the Avisynth frame cache. There is a function called SetMemoryMax() that you can use if you want to limit the memory consumption.

[jagabo]

Thank you for your test results and stream. Your willingness to help improve the program is greatly appreciated.

Well, I was motivated by a personal need! LOL In truth though, I'd be willing to help you out any time because your tools have been so useful to me over the years.

The memory usage is the Avisynth frame cache. There is a function called SetMemoryMax() that you can use if you want to limit the memory consumption.

Thanks for the tip.

[VegasBud]

Since it doesn't appear to have been mentioned in the various hd-pvr threads here at VideoHelp, I thought it would be a good idea to mention the rctvcap way of recording (as opposed to just using the supplied TME capture software). It has become the only way I now capture.

A big advantage to rctvcap is that is uses virtually no CPU. The TME capture software uses about 50% of both cores in the computer I'm using for this.

Another advantage is that it makes use of a GraphEdit file that allows you to get access to a property page that isn't available in TME. In the encoder filter, there is a "Hauppauge H264 Encoder Development" tab where you can set the "GOP Mode" to "Simple GOP 4/32/128".

By using rctvcap, with the "Simple GOP 4/32/128", my captures are absolutely perfect, and the resulting capture files work much better in assorted editing/processing programs. There's a heck of a lot less crashing.

If anyone is interested here is the link to the page where you can download the software, and read how to set up the graph and use the program. The pertinent parts start about half way down the page. ARogan (the author) even supplies the source code, if anyone is interested and has the time, energy, and inclination to adapt it...maybe make it more user friendly...add a timer...etc.

[jagabo]

I agree. I generally don't use rcTVCap but I do use GraphEdit with "Simple GOP 4/32/128" for all my captures. The files this produces are the most editing friendly.

[dv8shun]

Updated: September 26, 2008 (Included all the TS files on a separate site)

Here's my experience thus far with the HD-PVR.

I've always had an on-and-off interest in capturing gaming footage. For the past few years, my main capture device was an ATI TV Wonder Pro capture card. I'd capture in DVD-standard MPEG2, then used MPEG-VCR to cut out any useless footage (A great product by the way!). Finally, I used Gordian Knot to convert the MPEG2 captures to DivX AVI. The results were okay for a while, but weren't exactly spectacular. After getting a new Desktop last December and rewatching some old captured footage from years earlier, I knew I needed to update my capture device/method. Plus the ATI card was discontinued and wasn't even fully compatible with Vista.

Basically I wanted to replace my aging setup and be able to capture HD video. Researching this on various sites and forums, I found a number of affordable products:

SKnet Monster X:
Like the HD-PVR, captures in 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. But nearly impossible to obtain outside of Japan. I also didn't feel comfortable getting drivers/support from a Japanese language website. And there was the little extra hassle of finding a D-Terminal to Component adapter.

Earthsoft PV3/PV4:
Similar issues as with the Monster X.

Leadtek Winfast PxDTV2300 H:
When I researched this, it was not readily available in North America (I think it still isn't). The price was pretty good, but none of the overseas retailers seemed to ship to Canada. As well, there was little information/user-reviews on the card. It only captures up to 480p.

BlackMagic Intensity Pro:
This was my choice before learning about the HD-PVR. Upon further research, my excitement turned into disappointment. According to the company support site, the Intensity Pro is apparently not certified for use with Dell Workstations (My current rig is a Dell Precision 390). It was also a bit pricey. While it apparently doesn't have 480p recoding, it does have HDMI recording (Provided the source doesn't have HDCP) as well as compressed or uncompressed capturing. The uncompressed picture quality is said to be quite nice (Though there are mixed opinions about the MJPEG compression). If I ever get a suitable machine with a RAID0 setup, I wouldn't mind purchasing an Intensity Pro.

In the end, I ended up with the Hauppauge HD-PVR (Model 1219, Revision C2). Easy to setup and lots of information/feedback in various forums. After making several test captures, I'm quite satisfied thus far with the capture results. I tend to wonder about the performance of USB 2.0 connected devices vs. internal devices, but the HD-PVR has been doing its job great so far. It was great to see captured footage running at 60fps. Once I get an HD STB, it will be a joy to archive sports and various shows. Setup was quite simple and the driver/program installation went off without an hitch.

Basic specs of my PC are:
Vista Business 32bit
Intel Quad Core Q6600 (2.4Ghz)
4GB RAM
8800GT PCI-Express 512MB

My main purpose was to use this device to capture game footage. There is a 1+ second input/sound lag if you're going by the preview window. Luckily, the HD-PVR's Component out passthrough worked perfectly with my VGA Box.

My PS3 is still unavailable at the moment. So I've been capturing using a PS2 (480i.480p), Wii (480p) and an Xbox 360 (720p, 1080i). I'm now capturing using official Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony component cables (My older videos were captured using cheap third-party MadCatz/Gamestop ones. And they weren't half-bad, so if you're on a budget, pick some up) and standard stereo. The capture settings were 5Mbps (480i source), 6Mbps (480p source), 13.5Mbps (720p, 1080i sources). All Constant bitrate. I'm using the GraphEdit/rcTVCap command-line method of capturing, which uses very little PC processing power (I was getting random jitters and artifacts when I captured using the Arcsoft Capture Module). Personally, I found 720p yielded the best captured footage.

Here are some TS files outputted from the HD-PVR:
http://16bityouth.com/pat/hd-pvr/

As been said by other users, the TS files produced are not easily editable. Whether it be doing simple cuts of commercials or importing them into your favourite video editing software. Apparently, the VideoReDo guys might be adding support for H.264 TS files, but nothing yet. One program that does work in some ways is H.264 TS Cutter (http://www.h264tscutter.de). I've had mostly good results with it and CBR TS files.

For the time being, I'm pretty happy. I'm no HTPC or video expert, so the ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre and MPC are fine for my purposes (Viewing captured content on my PC). As said, the output H.264/MP4 file is highly uneditable and is a mother to convert. I'm by no means a videophile or video expert, so I'm not too sure if this product is suitable for hardcore video editors (Seeing as how it's so restrictive). For myself and my applications, I'm more than satisfied with this product.

And while I would recommend the HD-PVR for capturing HD footage, I would not suggest buying this product if you're looking to take amazing-looking screenshots. Since there is no access to the component-in signal (The blurry preview window doesn't count), any captured images will only look as good as the outputted TS file (Which, of course, has slightly lower quality than the original video input). Plus, at least with my Vista installation, the ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre doesn't even capture images (There's a command in the context menu, which when selected does...nothing).

Random problems that maybe others can help me with:
-With VBR TS files and MPC, if I seek using the progress bar, the video goes from 60fps to 1fps. The video has be re-opened and played back from the beginning to fix the issue.
-The preview window in H.264 TS Cutter doesn't seem to work with VBR TS files. I can still cut, but I have to rely purely on numeric values. If the video is paused once or if I seek within the progress bar, the preview window hangs.
- MP4 encoding using TMPGEnc Xpress has become a hassle, so I moved back to DivX 6.7 AVI files. Basically with VBR MP4 encoding, I was getting random intervals of artifacts regardless of the bitrate. With CBR MP4 encoding, I would get bad stuttering. And with both, 2-pass encoding would takes AGES. Which makes sense, but 20+ minutes for a 1 minute clip seemed a little off. So basically, while I love TMPGEnc, are there any tutorials for proper conversion to MP4 using the HD-PVR TS files? (In other words, not simply an all-in-one video conversion application that takes control of everything)

Thanks for those who've been suggesting ways to fix the above issues. Any other comments or general tips are welcomed!

[jagabo]

dv8shun, nice synopsis of the available cards. Regarding your problem with MPC, I had similar problems at first. I don't remember exactly what fixed them but here are some things to try:

Get MPCHC. You can try enabling DXVA if your graphics card has hardware h.264 decoding. It doesn't work quite right with my 8600 GT.

MPCHC along with a recent version of CoreAVC Pro gives perfect playback all the time for me.

Oh, I forgot about the h264ts_cutter problem. If CoreAVC doesn't solve that issue try using the GraphEdit capture technique referenced earlier with the Simple GOP 4/31/128 setting.

[FulciLives]

@dv8shun

Thanks for sharing those files. Always nice to see people upload actual video samples.

Although as I understand your post you re-encoded them ... mind if I ask why?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman