VCD vs. SVCD, with the same bitrate, is SVCD > VCD?

[nocarebear]

Is SVCD always better than VCD? Let's say for the SVCD, I use CBR of 1150, the same as a compliant VCD, so that I'll fit a movie on 2 discs instead of 3. Will the video quality of the SVCD be better or equivalent to a VCD if the bitrate were the same? Because if they are the same and I decide to keep a movie at two discs, I would use a VCD because it woudn't take as long to encode.

[flaninacupboard]

1150kbps is not really enough for SVCD, it will be sharper than a VCD but also blockier. try doing SVCD's at 1800kbps with 224kbps audio. that's enough for 53 minutes a disc, 2 discs at 106 minutes should be long enough for most movies.

[ZippyP.]

...try doing SVCD's at 1800kbps with 224kbps audio. that's enough for 53 minutes a disc, 2 discs at 106 minutes should be long enough for most movies.

And if you use 1800 avg. for 2-pass (or more) VBR it will be even better. If you use CBR then go with 352x480 (CVD) for two disks.

FYI, If the bitrate gets too low then it's better to drop the resolution down, SVCD>CVD>VCD. Everyone will have a different threshold that they use, with CBR at 2000 I go to CVD and at 1600 to VCD. 1150 Kbps is not high enough for anything but VCD. VBR allows lower averages however, 1700 and 1400 for me.

[nocarebear]

...try doing SVCD's at 1800kbps with 224kbps audio. that's enough for 53 minutes a disc, 2 discs at 106 minutes should be long enough for most movies.

And if you use 1800 avg. for 2-pass (or more) VBR it will be even better. If you use CBR then go with 352x480 (CVD) for two disks.

FYI, If the bitrate gets too low then it's better to drop the resolution down, SVCD>CVD>VCD. Everyone will have a different threshold that they use, with CBR at 2000 I go to CVD and at 1600 to VCD. 1150 Kbps is not high enough for anything but VCD. VBR allows lower averages however, 1700 and 1400 for me.

I didn't even think about making CVD's before; it was either VCDs or SVCDs. Now I might consider it.

After reading up on CVD's on these forums, I have a few questions.
1) Because 352X480 is a DVD compliant resolution, does that mean its playback ability is higher than SVCD's on standalone DVD players?

2) In the GOP, do I need to change the "B picture" to 4, and change "MAX GOP" to 18 for NTSC? Or is this only needed if I were to burn these on DVD-R later down the road, which I won't be.

3) I'll probably stick with CBR because VBR's increased encoding time does bother me. I know quality is subjective, but is there a bit rate that I shouldn't go under considering my source or DVDs?

[flaninacupboard]

well, every DVD player supports 352x480, but if it supports it on a CD is a different matter...
I would guess compatibility is not as good as vcd, but better than SVCD.

B frame settings aren't important, but yes 18 frame gop needs to be set for DVD. it's sensible to use it on CVD as well.

Personally i won't use D1 at less than 4Mbps, half D1 (the CVD resolution) i would have 1800kbps as my absolute-last-resort bitrate. VBR 2mbps will yield much better quality, but is limited to 48mins per CD (about right for a 2 disc 90 minute movie, or VBR 1946kbps does a 3 disc two and a half hour movie) and VBR 3mbps is what i use on DVD, which still gives three hours and twenty minutes.

[ZippyP.]

I agree with flan's settings, most flicks you can get on 2 CD's. If the kbps gets below 2000 then I go VBR, and I'll go down to 1500 if necessary.

Compatibility: If a player will play an SVCD then it should play a CVD, it's really an SVCD with a lower res. Will all SVCD capable players play it? Maybe not, so in effect it's compatibility may be lower than an SVCD.

VBR encoding time: Batch encode overnight, surely you're not at your computer 24 hrs.