ATI AIW 9800 vs Leadtek TV 2000 XP Expert

[lordsmurf]

If the source tapes are bad quality visibly, Canopus ADVC series will not do anything magic either. If you need a TBC, you need a TBC. My comment regarding DV is for editing. DV was made for editing, though I still prefer the less-artifact uncompressed AVI from an ATI or other card's capture.

I've made MPEG-1 DVDs in the past with ATI MMC 7.x series from degraded source, and while the results look good, they are still not MPEG-2 quality. But still quite good given the source. That was back in the day when MMC used drop-frame deinterlace. Now they used blended in 8.x. I may actually roll back one of my systems to 7.7 in the future so I can regain better MPEG-1 captures (I never use that system for MPEG-2 anymore anyway). Every now and then, I have old source that can be fine at MPEG-1.

If you want to add a card that'll take in anything, grab one of those $30 AVerMedia cards. Capture problems tapes in AVI and re-encode. I have to do this with PAL tapes sometimes. It's the only reason I let an AVer product suck up one of my PCI slots.

[marshalljames]

So do you want to trade?

no thx.I will soldier on.
Although I'm not that happy with my 7500,sounds to me that the newer cards are getting cheaper and cheaper.(Not in price but Quality)
I have been seriously considering yanking the 7500 out and putting in my AIW Rage 128.I swear the T.V tuner is better in the old one than the new one.(wether this is true,I don't know).
If you can still find it I would suggest looking for the pro version of this card.Not for gamers(32mb) but great for capturing.(pretty sure its the same Rage Theatre Cature Driver as the latest and greatest)
By the way I paid almost $500(cdn) for my AIW Rage 128 16mb in 98,two weeks before the pro version came out .I paid less than $200 for the 7500 64mb).I guess you get what you pay for.

[thecoalman]

I paid almost $500(cdn) for my AIW Rage 128 16mb in 98,two weeks before the pro version came out .I paid less than $200 for the 7500 64mb).I guess you get what you pay for.

I purchased the AIW with my comp the price but I think the going rate was around $400 U.S. It's currently priced at $340 on newegg. It wasn't cheap. I think most of that price reflects the fact that it's a 9800 Radeon pro which comes in at about $218.

[ajc53]

Lordsmurf:

I am not looking for a magic fix, just an acceptable picture. What is acceptable me, might not be, if I was doing this for some one else for a fee.

So far I had not ran into a tape that was so poor that it was visibly bad on the TV or on my $40 USB2 capture device. That’s what I started with, and I can always go back. But, I got tired of jumping thru hoops trying to keep or fix the audio sync.

If my Canopus can get at least as good a picture as my USB2 with audio sync, on the tapes my ATI don’t like, I should be happy.


Marshal,

Sorry you just missed the AIW Rage 128 Pro 32mb. It just so happens I got one in one of my old back-up computers. I only used it as a graphics card and to watch a little TV while on the computer (seemed like a good idea at the time).

How about I throw in the 128 Pro with my 9000 Pro, for your 7500?

[LRD]

The Leadtek Expert works great. Captures are crisp and clear. The cost is reasonable. Buy the Leadtek and pass on the ATI.

LRD

[lordsmurf]

How about I throw in the 128 Pro with my 9000 Pro, for your 7500?

I'll give you my ATI AIW 7200 PCI for that deal. Same chips as the 7500 (sans graphics variant), and I believe the same tuner. Perfect card for dual setups if you're looking to run anything that way.

[ajc53]

That might work. Except I would be out a video card.

Really, I was just messing with Marshal because he brought up “fleshware” as the possible problem on this 9800 thread, when sitting back with a 7500.

And for all I know the earlier cards are not any better. It just seems like from what I am hearing on this site, they are easier to manage in regard to the MV related problems.

[lordsmurf]

That might work. Except I would be out a video card.

Really, I was just messing with Marshal because he brought up “fleshware” as the possible problem on this 9800 thread, when sitting back with a 7500.

And for all I know the earlier cards are not any better. It just seems like from what I am hearing on this site, they are easier to manage in regard to the MV related problems.

I've got a GeForce2 AGP I don't use if you need another video card. It's a great card, I just don't use it. It's a gaming card, and I don't play games. I'd give you that GeForce2 and the ATI AIW 7200 if you really wanted to trade for the 9000 and 128PRO.

Anyway, the trend is true to some degree. The 7000 series cards did not have as much trouble with MV as some of these newer ones do (especially using the newest 8.8/8.9 MMC). The newer cards tend to find more fake MV than not. The newer AIW may not be friendly with bad source (which is still the root of fake MV problems).

[ajc53]

Lordsmurf:

Let me think about that a little, even though I already have Getforce2, but its integrated.

Do you think the ATI is more sensitive to false MV on poorer tapes because it has better technology (hardware speaking), like ATI told me? Or, because it has added more different types of hard coded MV detection? Or, a combination of the two?

[lordsmurf]

Lordsmurf:

Let me think about that a little, even though I already have Getforce2, but its integrated.

Do you think the ATI is more sensitive to false MV on poorer tapes because it has better technology (hardware speaking), like ATI told me? Or, because it has added more different types of hard coded MV detection? Or, a combination of the two?

It could be many things.

First off though, yes, I do believe the ATI is better technology and detects more errors. This is a good thing. The fact the MPAA and others hover, forcing ATI to use MV detection is fine too. But the problem exists because Macrovision is nothing more than a poorly written protection scheme based on creating fake errors. When your tapes have similar fake errors to that MV it's trying to detect, you're stuck.

The other likely scenario is newer drivers and hardware were made to prevent the MV hacks (which is not intended to bypass MV, but to prevent the backlash it leaves from scenarios like this), and they are especially bad when new hardware and softare are used together. Most of that hacks file seem to have disappeared from the net until I put them on my site in a central location. Or it could simply be a flaw of the newer chipsets and drivers. We may never know. This is becoming a trend on the Theatre 200 cards. Better quality encoding, but a problem with flawed sources and potential in refusing the source.

The VCR and wires also make a big difference in what is MV-detected. I have 5 VCRs that operate differently, which is why I have them here. Some give off a cleaner signals than others.

The older cards do seem to do better in regards to MV. Using a Theatre 100 card could fix this. Get back to me via PM about the trade.

[indolikaa]

Two thoughts...

* ATI is considered one of the 'giants' in the graphics card industry, with the other being nVidia. I can't imagine the MPAA being able to sleep comfortably at night when a company like ATI is advertising a product that can do exactly what the MPAA doesn't want anybody doing. The pressure they must try to exert on ATI must be considerable.

* I could be wrong on this, but a lot of video errors are not visual in nature. I say this because I have a couple of video tapes that my old DVC-II would explode upon reaching a specific segment of the tape. Same with the AIW 9000. When the TBC was added, the ATI was able to capture that specific segment. Something I couldn't see but the devices did, until the TBC was inserted into the path.

[lordsmurf]

Nope, you're right on track. Not all errors can be seen by the human eye. Some are not even part of the visible data, but are part of the datastream as a whole.