Old ALL in Wonder Pro - Tuner Problem

[Keo]

I have the old original All In Wonder Pro card (1998) setup on one of my old pc's with Win98.

Everything works ok but the tv tuner doesn't display the video image, Only the sound! It tunes in correctly to each channel in stereo but the display is absent.
Usualy people have the opposite problem (video, but no sound) on tuner... lol.

The svhs input works, the composite works etc... (displays image and sound). The capture for those inputs works perfectly also.
I've tried autoscanning several times, selecting CABLE CANADA as the type of video source in ATI's Video Player. Same result: It tunes and detects the correct channels, but without any video.
Reading the original (and quite old) manual, it says to select the type of input as => ANT, CABLE IRC, HRC, STD. These are absent from my presets, i only have: Ant USA, Ant Canada, Cable USA, Cable Canada etc..

I figured it was a problem with the display driver or the tuner driver (although the tuning itself works, since i can hear the audio)
I've tried a few things including re-installing all the drivers from scratch from the original CD. As many know, ATI does a poor job in updating their drivers for vid cards and MMC (poor retro-compatibility).

Also tried re-installing/updating with the directx version and MMC recommended for that OS and card.

Wondering if this could be an overlay problem, since the input from the composite works. So i uninstalled any video viewing/editing apps that might interfere with the display (including virtual dub capture etc..)

Any solution i tried (including updating the wdm drivers) gives the same result, no display in tuner mode.

General Details:
All In Wonder Pro
OS: Win98
DirectX: 8.1

Device Manager Files, cross-referenced with ATI's support site..
according to them, the files that should be there are ok:

Ati 829Pro, WDM Video Capture (works)
ATI WDM Teletext Decoder (works)
ATI WDM TV Audio (works)
ATITuneP, WDM TV Tuner (sound but no video)
ATIXBar, ATI WDM Video Audio Crossbar (works)
Specialized MVD WDM VBI Codec
Specialized PCD WDM VBI Codec

Display Adapter & Driver version:
Card: ATI All In Wonder Pro (English)
Chip Type: Mach64: Rage Pro
Direct Draw 1.00
Software Version: 5.24-CD3 (from the original CD)
Those are the "enhanced" drivers from cd. I've also tried the "un-enhanced" (comes stock with Win98)...no go.

Video Player/MMC version:
ATI Player 5.2 (this is the updated version).
The original version from CD 5.0 gives the same result.
MMC 7.2 gives horrible results/compatibility problems. And the tuner won't even launch on that (video stream error etc..)

I've also tried the supposedly "updated" drivers from ATI's site for that card with MMC 7.2, both makes matters worse, ie: capture won't work, display won't work, pc reboots etc..etc..
I suspect that was the original problems that caused me to rollback the drivers a few years back to the original cd ones.

Wondering if anyone has the same card or encountered this problem with the tuner. With all the new cool & free tv viewings apps, needless to say I'd love to be able to transform that pc into a PVR, if i can ony get the image to display

Thanks for any help.

[mastersmurfie]

Keo...you might try a newer version of MMC...I used ver 7.7 (still use it today) with my ATI All-In-Wonder 128 (non PRO version, I believe...can hardly find any documentation on this card...)

Works like a charm...

Also, if you can get away with it, don't use the drivers included on the CD...try to D/L the drivers from ATI website

Not saying it will work on your system, but the one that I used w/WIN98 is:

http://mirror.ati.com/support/drivers/winme/winmer1284137192.html

(ATI site says it's good for WIN98 and WINME)

then try MMC 7.7 http://mirror.ati.com/support/drivers/misc/mmc7-7-0-1-nodvd.html

just a thought...

mastersmurfie

[Keo]

Hey Master,

great, thanks for the links. Will try that, got nothing to lose, i can always easily go back to the current config, because I tried so many things, i know the procedure to get back to this config by heart lol.

Couldn't find a link to a MMC 7.7 before, so i'll try this one.
(and thanks for your other post re: registry)
btw, what do you have (under same tree HCU\software\ati tech\multimedia\features\tv\tuner) under "CABLE" (mine is empty even though i select it in video player)
Cheers.

[mastersmurfie]

mine has "United States of America"

I guess since (i'm in the US) I chose "United States", and "cable" in the "Initialization Wizard"??? Never thought about it before...

Maybe change that value to "Canada"???

just a thought...

mastersmurfie

[Keo]

yes, trying that. (even though i selected Canada cable in my wizard, it doesn't show up...) Editing the keys manualy and rebooting doesn't seem to work either, just resets them to blank values. (probably value is wrong..)

Obviously there's a problem at the level of the registry which de-installing re-installing doesn't seem to clean. Best thing would be to de-install then delete all ati-related reg keys and either go for the upgrade you mentioned or the other suggestion by merl which is boot to another partition.

All the features were working fine for years with the original config, where i got caught (like so many others) was upgrading the drivers/software...
No wonder i'm weary of any "upgrades" from ATI...

Will try both. Again thanks

[mastersmurfie]

hhmmm...I just changed mine to "Canada" and "cable" in the wizard...(figured we both use essentially the same format) and then in that same registry key, it says "Canada"

wierd...try "uninstalling" all MMC software, and remove all entries from the registry...(there's post somewhere on here about what to remove-I just dont remember where it is right now... )

then, try the MMC 7.7

just a thought

mastersmurfie

edit...found it:

https://www.videohelp.com/ATI_AIW_Guide.htm

You prolly won't have to follow all of it..just the "removal" part...

[Keo]

heh, thanks again.

Was re-installing the drivers and mmc from scratch, and took special care
of deleting ALL ati registry keys. So far, no real success, the initial driver you mentioned is not compatible with my card (all in wonder pro), that driver is for all in wonder 128 pro and similar cards, in case anyone reading needs it.

Now trying the method you describe (removal of mmc) and installing 7.2 + another updated driver compatible with AIW Pro. Who knows.

Btw, the original install cd ( 1998 ) that comes with the card, doesn't seem to have Multimedia Center, weird, because i recall installing and having it on that pc way back. It only comes with Video Player?? (5.0) very odd.

The readme for mmc 7.2 says it needs updated codecs also, i'll try those, that could be the problem. Still doesn't make much sense since I can view 99.9% of all formats/codecs on that that pc, xvid etc.. Just about every codec imaginable is installed and I've never had problem editing any piece of video, no matter what format it is on that pc.
Why would the tuner require a special codec? hmm.. silly ATI

As for the registry, like you say, i have no idea why those entries are blank, even though the driveres install correctly, and the tuner is clearly listed in device manager, along with all the other required components.
It's telling that almost everything related to the tuner is screwed up in the registry.

Anway, i deleted the whole tree, hehe...that solves that LOL.

Cheers

[mastersmurfie]

Keo...sorry about that...might help if I READ correctly...

Was re-installing the drivers and mmc from scratch, and took special care
of deleting ALL ati registry keys. So far, no real success, the initial driver you mentioned is not compatible with my card (all in wonder pro), that driver is for all in wonder 128 pro and similar cards, in case anyone reading needs it.

anyways...you've probably already tried these, but I thought I'd share anyways:

RAGE PRO Windows 98 Display Drivers
http://www.ati.com/support/products/pc/ragepro/win98/rageprowin98drivers.html

and

RAGE PRO Windows 98 Display Drivers For Video For Windows Capture and/or ATI-TV ISA/PCI/fm support

http://www.ati.com/support/products/pc/ragepro/win98/rageprowin98driversvfw.html

hope these help more than the first ones...

mastersmurfie

[Keo]

Hey master, you did help alot

Thanks for the links, i'll try those now.
7.7 mmc doesn't work with the win98 system unfortunatly and requires codecs and wdm drivers that screw it up even more hehe. Got into one of those "ati loopholes of death".

The video player 5.2 might help, i tried the 5.35 (no go) and the older ones.
But that video driver might be just the ticket.
Did lots of different configs/installs last night, even removed windows media player and a variety of codecs. I don't get it, in any configuration, even installing the tuner drivers independently, i'm back to square one: video for everything in any player/capture device EXCEPT video on the tuner (but with sound). Very weird, doesn't make sense.

Anyway, thanks again.

Btw, my AIW pro is AGP.

[jaxxboss]

Keo
I also have the all in wonder pro. It is a lowly 8mb card pci . LOL, seems funny now, but when I got it i loved it. It is still on my other pc which I let the little ones use. I also have some drivers somewhere on it that I d/l from various places besides the ati site. If u need anything in particular, let me know.
I will say this, putting those frign drivers on was a major pain in the ass!!
Back then i had no clue, today I have more of a clue but still wouldnt wanna mess with them. between the display driver and the tv tuner and the mmc and God only knows what....I got headaches. I think I had like 3 versions of the display driver installed. LOL.
Yea, the orig disc I used, but it was missing something. Weird.
Anyway, its all working fine now so.. Same card Im guessing only mine is a PCI.

[Keo]

I will say this, putting those frign drivers on was a major pain in the ass!!
Back then i had no clue, today I have more of a clue but still wouldnt wanna mess with them.

I hear that!
I think it's part of the general reflex (and natural it is) to want to update drivers, specialy 6 year old ones, but in ATI's case, it's something to avoid like the plague apparently...

I also have some drivers somewhere on it that I d/l from various places besides the ati site. If u need anything in particular, let me know.

LOL, i pretty much have all the ati drivers for all the cards ever made by now...hehehe! Thanks for the offer though, appreciate it
I'm at the point that if installing a new partition and starting fresh doesn't fix it, the next stop for the AIW pro is the trash can, even though it's excellent for s-video/composite capture and I still used it for that, I will replace it with another low-end card (from another manufacturer, naturally..)