HP TV Tuner/PVR unit ? or Black magic Intensity pro?

[TBoneit]

I cab get the HP TV Tuner (USB) that has Antenna & Composite & S-Video inputs cheap. It is the unit that they ship with some of their laptops.

Anybody used one of these and the PVR software that comes with it? I could take it home and try it out hooked up to a PC running XP Media center 2005.

As an alternative I see the Black Magic Intensity pro for $349 that has HDMI in/out and Component in/Out. It is supposed to be available in May,

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

I haven't checked to see if it shipped yet. Howver B & H shows tha they are accepting orders @ $331.55 for the Pro or $248.95 for teh HDMI only card.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=search&Q=&ci=0&shs=blackmag...s&sq=desc&pn=2

My question/worry is that the unit doesn't become obsoleted by HDCP. I suspect that with any luck the Copy flag would be stripped on s-video by a TBC.

Thanks for any input.
Cheers

edited to fix my poor typing

[jagabo]

The Black Magic Intensity Pro looks intersting. It will not record HDCP encrypted sources -- it says as much in their tech specs:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/

When connected to these copy protected sources, the HDMI specification defines that Intensity cards cannot capture.

[edDV]

The Blackmagic card is mainly for capturing uncompressed HDMI from an HD camcorder and for feeding a monitor from an uncompressed NLE timeline. It probably won't work as a HTPC capture or monitor solution unless your PC can handle uncompressed HD or SD bitrates (270-1435Mb/s). Be prepared for file sizes at up to 750GB/hr.

HDCP will prevent it from working with cable boxes or HD/BD DVD players.

It may be more useful working at SD resolutions from the analog adapters (Intensity Pro only) but you still need a beefy RAID to capture at those rates.

The software is described here.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/software/

[jagabo]

With their mjpeg encoder it gets down to 12 MB/s. That's doable on a PATA/SATA drive. I estimate it's about the same as PicVideo's MJPEG encoder in 4:2:2 mode at setting 18.

[TBoneit]

I was actually thinking about using it with the Component inputs and outputs. However from comments here it seems it won't feed component out except from certain software? I was hoping it would do 1080i or 720p captures usably. I guess it was ti much to hope fro from the price.

[edDV]

I was actually thinking about using it with the Component inputs and outputs. However from comments here it seems it won't feed component out except from certain software? I was hoping it would do 1080i or 720p captures usably. I guess it was ti much to hope fro from the price.

HDMI capture must be from a non-HDCP source. That might be a HD camcorder, computer display card with HDMI out or upscaling DVD player. It won't work for a cable/sat box or HD DVD player.

The JPeg codec is intended for a Premiere Pro or Final Cut Pro timeline and it seems the minimum bitrate is 12MB/s (96Mb/s) or about 3.5x DV or HDV rates. Good news is 10 bit is possible if you have a 10 bit source.

This isn't for home recording.

On the output side, you need an uncompressed or JPeg source that the CPU can unfold in realtime. This path would only have the CPU for decompression, not the MPeg decode hardware found on a display card. As such it makes a good solution for timeline monitoring from an NLE to an HDTV monitor.

[jagabo]

HDMI capture must be from a non-HDCP source. That might be a HD camcorder, computer display card with HDMI out or upscaling DVD player. It won't work for a cable/sat box or HD DVD player.

I thought only Blue Ray and HD DVD use HDCP. And both of them aren't enforcing resolution reduction on the component outputs at this time. Of course, things might be different in the future. I didn't look real closely, maybe it doesn't record HD over component?

[edDV]

HDMI capture must be from a non-HDCP source. That might be a HD camcorder, computer display card with HDMI out or upscaling DVD player. It won't work for a cable/sat box or HD DVD player.

I thought only Blue Ray and HD DVD use HDCP. And both of them aren't enforcing resolution reduction on the component outputs at this time. Of course, things might be different in the future. I didn't look real closely, maybe it doesn't record HD over component?

Somebody needs to test HDMI from the HD players to this card. It shouldn't take long. The cable boxes are using HDCP. Just plug your DVI computer monitor into one at 640x480p and watch the alarms go off.

Analog component at 1080i or 720p should work for HD source but the captured bitrate (file size) will be high. 12MB/s (96Mb/s) is ~ 50GB per hour. A hardware MPeg2/MPeg4 encoder could bring file sizes into reason for PVR and HD/BD DVD recording which max around 35Mb/s.

[TBoneit]

I was thinking about the plus version that has component in/out.

My fall back position would be DVD recorder with component in. I'm looking at component in as my intended source has HDMI/Component/S-Video/Composite out all active at the same time. The HDMI is feeding the TV so I was thinking that component would give best results to capture from since the HDMI was in use and the component wasn't. The other use for component and one that others do with component is use it to feed a second TV with HD through a long cable and the use of a UHF remote.

Edit: Actually I'm just looking mainly to capture OTA networks in best quality I can get and it is my understanding they won't be HDCP protected (?)

[edDV]

I was thinking about the plus version that has component in/out.

My fall back position would be DVD recorder with component in. I'm looking at component in as my intended source has HDMI/Component/S-Video/Composite out all active at the same time. The HDMI is feeding the TV so I was thinking that component would give best results to capture from since the HDMI was in use and the component wasn't. The other use for component and one that others do with component is use it to feed a second TV with HD through a long cable and the use of a UHF remote.

Edit: Actually I'm just looking mainly to capture OTA networks in best quality I can get and it is my understanding they won't be HDCP protected (?)

Wait for reports that analog component capture works. Don't assume. Unless you are capturing from a camcorder like the Canon XH-A1.

Second issue is the huge file size resulting. ~75-750GB per hour. You will need a compatible editor for the Blackmagic JPeg compression scheme.

A workflow design is needed.

[TBoneit]

Buying the hardware and software probably would break my budget for sure. Oh well. I'm taking the HP tuner home and test it tonight, who knows maybe i'll be happy enough with the results.

I need to test it anyway to be sure it works before we sell it so why take it home and see.

Cheers and USA members enjoy the holiday.

[TBoneit]

OK to close this out. The HP USB Tuner/Capture drivers worked and Media center would find S-Video input and display it fine. However, since there was no MCE remote that was as far it would go. The HP software would not install as My computer isn't a HP.

I finally bought a Hauppauge USB2 with MCE remote and set it up in Media Center. I did some test caps of HD channels through S-Video out and used TDA 3 to author. It opens the MS format with no conversion needed. Did a test playand they look and sound fine.

I could just continue using my Pioneer 531h instead. Unfortunately I keep getting an intermittent ground loop hum in the audio I can't seem to fix. So this may work better.

So thanks to all for your feedback.

[Leon8]

I bought Onair Gt but haven't receive it yet.
There has been some good reviews on it
http://www.autumnwave.com/products/consumer/onair_gt.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589

[TBoneit]

I saw something like that for sale at best buy. it was for laptops mainly. USB2, antenna, AV input adaptor etc. One thing turned me off was the AV cables plugged into the side of it through what looked like a mini usb plug. It didn't look durable to me.

When I last used my tv to scan for hd on the cable it found stuff, to be blunt it found junk. It didn't find any of the networks main feeds. It did find a few things but they were all the additional feeds off of the main channel that didn't have a picture. I have been meaning to check again. They may have been filtered out at the pole. Having only basic cable they did have traps to block unsubbed channels. This month I got High speed cable and it didn't work. The service call tech found low signal levels. He pulled the filters, saying we don't use these anymore which I can understand as most channels beyond basic are now scrambled. put new water tight plugs at both ends of the cable from the pole, signal levels came up. Cable modem now works giving me throughput of 15 to 23Mb now. I though the 3 Mb DSL was fast, oh well.

Being afraid of heights I'd need someone to put an antenna up. I can barely get NJN which is just up on the top of the hill, 3 miles or so. Thinking back they put foil sided foam under the plastic siding and I think that is killing OTA. I used to be able to get NYC and Phila. & a Delaware PBS stations with rabbit ears years ago.

Good Luck with your purchase.

[themaster1]

Personally if it's not to capture vhs sources i wouldn't buy a analog card & specially if i had a laptop

I'd rather get a digital dvb-t, dvb-s ...

[theinv]

Wait for reports that analog component capture works. Don't assume.

Any more news on the component capture feature? I have a dishnetwork VIP622 DVR, can I feed the component-out from the DVR to intensity pro?

Why is no one reviwing the intensity pro? All I see on the internet are just news.

[edDV]

Wait for reports that analog component capture works. Don't assume.

Any more news on the component capture feature? I have a dishnetwork VIP622 DVR, can I feed the component-out from the DVR to intensity pro?

Why is no one reviwing the intensity pro? All I see on the internet are just news.

The intended uses for that card are:

- to allow HDV/AVCHD camcorder capture from the HDMI port directly from the sensor matrix bypassing the HDV/AVCHD encoder. That way you get the full 1920x1080 without compression. It can also be used to monitor an uncompressed editor timeline to an HDMI monitor. Monitoring a DV or HDV timeline would require realtime CPU transcoding.

- the analog component version allows import from broadcast SD/HD recorders to an uncompressed or low compressed edit timeline. The assumption here is you have a beefy edit workstation and a fast enough disk system to handle the uncompressed data rates.

A typical consumer PC will struggle with the bit rates created by these cards especially for HD. The card has zero hardware compression or decompression. That job falls to software. I see the file sizes generated as impractical for PVR use. If you wanted to capture one specific program and edit it that may be practical if your system can handle the bit rate.

The better PVR strategy is to capture the compressed HD stream at ~12-25Mb/s from a ATSC/QAM tuner or from the IEEE-1394 port.

[dazbobaby]

I googled and found this topic, I had to register to reply.
the BlackMagic intensity pro is decent kit, but it WILL NOT record HDMI due to HDCP as stated.
It will only work at capturing copy protected content through composite.

All has been stated.
but as one person said, - Dont Presume it will work through compostite.
It does, I use it to capture video and screenshots from the PS3, even the XMB.
Yes my pc struggles with video, often dropping frames, but ifyou want to capture HD video you know you are going to need a monster pc anyway.

There is another option now though, I dont know if it uses an internal porocessor to recode, most likely it will be your pc processor. The specs says it requires a dual core CPU, but does'nt state if it's for encoding or playback.
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

System Requirements

* Processor Requirements (minimum):
o Dual core CPU
* Graphics with 256MB memory (or greater)
Note: the playback of high definition H.264 requires a fast CPU and at least 256MB of graphics memory
* Sound card

[dazbobaby]

Specifications

* Hardware encoder
o H.264 AVCHD video encoder
o AC-3 audio encoding
o Recording datarate: from 1 to 13.5 Mbits/sec (user selectable)
o Recording format: up to 1080i from component video (YCrCb)
Note: the video input format determines the recorded format. For example, 1080i input records at 1080i, 720P records at 720P, etc.. Any other format conversions needs to be done with the MediaConvert program (supplied).
* Size:
o 19.8cm wide x 17.3 cm deep x 7 cm high
* Power:
o 5V at 2 amps
* Weight:
o 1 lb, 3 oz


I'll learn to read a web page in one sitting one day.

[jagabo]

The HD PVR captures composite and svideo 480i, component 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i, as h.264/AAC or h.264/AC3 Transport Streams using a hardware encoder chip. It ignores any copy protection signals.

[dazbobaby]

The HD PVR captures composite and svideo 480i, component 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i, as h.264/AAC or h.264/AC3 Transport Streams using a hardware encoder chip. It doesn't pay any attention to any copy protection signals.

What about Macrovision?
It certainly does'nt take any notice of HDCP as it's not there in the composite signal.
That said, do you own one? Is it any good?

[jagabo]

Yes, I own one. It can record everything out of my HD cable box's component output. From what I've read it ignores CGMS-A and Macrovision. But I haven't tested those myself.

I like the device but the TS files can be a bit hard to work with. Third party software is slowly catching up.

[jabloomf1230]

All has been stated.
but as one person said, - Dont Presume it will work through compostite.
It does, I use it to capture video and screenshots from the PS3, even the XMB.
Yes my pc struggles with video, often dropping frames, but ifyou want to capture HD video you know you are going to need a monster pc anyway.

I have an Intensity Pro also and it works great for my intended purpose: camcorder video ingesting. But I saw your post and I tried to connect it to my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD cable box via the RGB component cables and it doesn't either preview or capture anything at 1080i, with the IP Control panel set to 1080i. I there something special that I need to do, to make it work? It works fine with HD camcorders, either with HDMI or component.

[jagabo]

I have an Intensity Pro also and it works great for my intended purpose: camcorder video ingesting. But I saw your post and I tried to connect it to my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD cable box via the RGB component cables and it doesn't either preview or capture anything at 1080i, with the IP Control panel set to 1080i. I there something special that I need to do, to make it work?

Is your cable box connected to a TV with HDMI? Many cable boxes will not output to both HDMI and component at the same time. Unplug the HDMI cable.

[jabloomf1230]

The cable box has all outputs disconnected, except the RGB component to the Intensity Pro. It's some kind of syncing problem, since the computer preview shows some colored scrambled lines and then nothing. If I unplug the cable box and then plug in an HD camcorder to the Intensity Pro, the Intensity Pro immediately starts working at 1080i. As soon as I plug the cable box back into the TV with the RGB component cables, the TV also works fine.

[jagabo]

That sounds like a sync problem. Have you tried 720p instead? Different channels?

[SHS]

jabloomf1230 that sound more like CGMS-A or Macrovision kick end on you
If have DVD/Bluray Player with component output then test it.

[macmonte]

The cable box has all outputs disconnected, except the RGB component to the Intensity Pro. It's some kind of syncing problem, since the computer preview shows some colored scrambled lines and then nothing. If I unplug the cable box and then plug in an HD camcorder to the Intensity Pro, the Intensity Pro immediately starts working at 1080i. As soon as I plug the cable box back into the TV with the RGB component cables, the TV also works fine.

I joined this forum today just to respond to this. I am experiencing the same exact problem with an Intensity Pro and an Explorer 8300 HD box. I purchased the Intensity Pro just a few weeks ago for the sole purpose of being able to record content from my cablebox. Long story short, I am a grad student working on a project about mass media and I wanted to be able to record various news programming in direct feed HD. I knew the HDMI wasn't going to work because of HDCP so I purchased the Pro. Just got it today and I can't get the component capture to work. I know my box is outputting via component bc I will check it on my TV before plugging it into the Pro. If it is a case of CGMS-A Macrovision (didn't know it existed until reading this thread) is there anyway around it? Does the Intensity Pro just have problems recording 720p via component? If anyone can help me out I will be forever greatful.

[jagabo]

I am experiencing the same exact problem with an Intensity Pro and an Explorer 8300 HD box... If it is a case of CGMS-A Macrovision (didn't know it existed until reading this thread) is there anyway around it?

I don't know if there's a way around CGMS-A but the reported symptoms sound more like sync problems than CGMS-A detection. From what I've read you usually get a message indicating the copy restriction. On the other hand, maybe BlackMagic does it this way because putting up a message makes it easier for hackers to locate and disable the code that detects the CGMS-A signal.

Does the Intensity Pro just have problems recording 720p via component?

I doubt it. I read of many people using it to capture HD gaming from the PS3 and Xbox 360.

Have you tried recording from PBS or local broadcast stations? Those are least likely to have CGSM-A restrictions. On the other hand, maybe the cable company forces CGSM-A on all output to "encourage" subscriptions to their PVR.

[macmonte]

I just wish I could narrow it down to whether its my cablebox or my intensity pro. The 8300HD is a DVR. Maybe if I get the regular HD box I could get around it. Is there anything I could put in between the Intensity Pro and my cablebox like a component distribution amp that wouldn't transmit the encrypted signal? I'm not really sure how these signals work, maybe it could be filtered out? Can I trick it by splitting the signal?

When I hooked up my cablebox to the Intensity Pro, I could see a message from my cablebox about the device not being HDCP compliant and it told me to use the component outputs. Like I said, all I got was black when i plugged them in.

God this is frustrating.

Your responses are greatly appreciated.