Speaker's actually get hurt???

[montburnsy]

Ok, my Q is to do with audio, but maybe not this forum?
Does any1 know if/why speakers can B damaged at under powering them. If so, does this mean when playing "surround", the rear's could get damaged seeings they aren't always pumping out full sound as the fronts do? This to me seems contradictory??
Or if so, does under powering mean running 200w speakers with a 15w amp?

This has me confused and hesitant in running Pro Logic stuff till I find out the truth to this matter, so any help would be very muchly appreciated.
Thnx in adv.

ps: I love my speakers, they don't need to be treated with disrespect!

[disturbed1]

If you under power your speakers, you can run your amp into clipping. When an amp clips, it causes distortion, distortion is what kills a speaker.

This is usually caused from using an underpowered amp, which can not achieve the desired listening levels, and the user turns the volume up to compensate for the amps lack of power.

You can run a 1000 watt speaker with 5 watts, and see no damage, as long as the signal is clean and pure.

[montburnsy]

Thnx very much for the reply, it's just what I needed to hear!
(but from someone who calls themself "disturbed1", I'm not sure about)
j/k Thnx again.

[Double]

I agree with Disturbed1, also Heat kills speakers. The distortion and popping will stretch the spider and cause physical dammage (cone/spider seperation). Heat from over-powering the speaker will reduce the life span and eventually kill the speaker.

You do not want a 1000 watt amp on 500 watt speakers, but 500 watt amp on 1000 watt speakers would be OK.

In car audio competion I have actually overdriven woofers to distortion level with under power amps (60 watt amp, 250 watt woofers) to achieve higher db levels. Yes I did have to replace the woofers, but I did go home with the trophies. (Expensive lesson = learning curve)

-D

[disturbed1]

In car audio competion I have actually overdriven woofers to distortion level with under power amps (60 watt amp, 250 watt woofers) to achieve higher db levels. Yes I did have to replace the woofers, but I did go home with the trophies. (Expensive lesson = learning curve)

-D

If you want to watch something fun, grab a Cerwin Vega and plug it into a wall socket. Not one of the Strokers, but just a regular VEGA 12 or 15.

The only way over powering a speaker can hurt it, is if it is a cheap speaker that doesn't use fluid cooling on the Voice Coil. Also, over excrusion can hurt a speaker, but most will make a loud whacking noise before it breaks.

The voice coil will smack against the back plate to make the noise, or the surround will actually tear. That's how you know it's being over powered.

[FOO]

You gotta tell me about fluid cooling on the voice coil
How does that work ?

[Heavensent]

now you have got me confused

lets say i have a 100 watt receiver.
is it ok to 150 watt speakers and an 80 watt sub ?

or am i damaging the receiver this way?

i have to say that the sound is grate, no distortion or something like that.
the dial is up to 50 but i NEVER go past 25 (it hurts my ears if i do )
but i really need to know once and for all.

[disturbed1]

You gotta tell me about fluid cooling on the voice coil
How does that work ?

It's called ferrofluid (the most popular). It's a non electrical conducting fluid that aids in both movement and coiling of the voice coil.

Think of high speed drilling, they use water to cool the drill bit due to heat. If a voice coil is constantly moving, due to friction, heat builds up over time. The coiling allows for both higher power handling, and longer sustained output.

Ferrofluid has a side effect of changing the speaker's theil/small paramerters too. It changes the electrical Q, and the damping factor.

now you have got me confused

lets say i have a 100 watt receiver.
is it ok to 150 watt speakers and an 80 watt sub ?

or am i damaging the receiver this way?

As long as the power is clean and undistorted, you'll be fine. Distortion is pretty easy (for me) to spot. Listen to a piece of music that you know at a lower volume. Gradually increase the volume until the sounds degrades.

It's easiest to detect high frequency distortion, before low frequency distortion. Our ears are more effiecent at the frequencies above 1000HZ. Once you dectect discoloration in the musical passage, this is your level of distortion.

If say you detect distortion at 40 (out of you max of 50), then a safe maxium would be around 30-35. Because human ears aren't the best at detecting subtile changes in sound.

If you want to be precise, you'll need some equiptment. Like a sine wave generator, RTA, and other measuring devices.

But just keep it below the max thresh hold, and you'll be fine.

[holistic]

I couldn't be bothered typing a story - read here for some info
http://www.electrosound.com/Speaker_Facts/v7no1.htm
http://www.electrosound.com/Speaker_Facts/v7no2.htm

My HarmonKardon receiver is ONLY rated at 33wattRMS per channel but it drives my Klipsch Heresy II's till my ears ring.
So if you have a good amplifer your will not damage the speakers by (as you say) underpowering them.
FYI : You said you had Pro Logic and a 100W receiver . Unless they have changed their marketing, that would mean your receiver is 100w added over total all channels
Just as an example : 35*35 front and 15*15 rear
So long as the ohm rating for your receiver is followed you will have no problems (connecting incorrect impedances results in overheating and\or shorting out of amps)


][

[ZippyP.]

How does running a speaker at less than it's maximum power rating damage it? To my mind it just can't. Most home speakers are not driven at their maximum rated capacity under normal use. Driving a speaker at a lower power than it's maximum, even a really low power, seems to me to be normal operatiing procedure.

Here's a quote from holistic's second article:
"I get this question often. "Aren't those speakers too powerful for this amp?" Never can speakers be too powerful for an amp. The amp may not put out enough power to get the best and fullest performance out of the speakers but the speakers cannot over power the amp. The only way you can overload an amp with speakers is if you run too many speakers off one amp such that the ohms load is less than the amp can handle, say four 8 ohm speakers giving a 2 ohm load on an amp that is only designed for 4 ohms."

[FOO]

That's very interesting. I had no idea they did that. I would
have thought the viscous drag of the fluid (unless it moves with the coil)
would cause too much load.

..and a minor point . The old normal speaker coils heat up because of
electrical resistance - not friction. They are suspended in mid-air and
not rubbing on anything. (unless your cat peed on the cone and warped it)