Hi8 capture without camcorder?

[Leanoric]

I’ve got a couple of Hi8 tapes that I want to capture but unfortunately no camcorder, only a miniDV one. I thought that I could remember some sort of tape adapter thing that you could insert the Hi8 tape into and then play on a vcr but that apparently isn’t a thing.

Is there any way to capture these things at home without a camcorder?

[CaptureCraft]

You can find a deck, but it will be more expensive and the quality would be mediocre. And you would need TBC.
Buy a camcorder. There are a lot of them for sale in UK.

[Leanoric]

Yeah Ive had a look on ebay. They go for a lot more money than I thought they would. I was hoping they would be really cheap but there seems to be a lot of buyers for them.

[CaptureCraft]

Well, these camcorders ain't getting any younger.
They were cheap when they just got out of fashion. Now everybody is trying to use them to digitize their tapes.
Have you checked European eBay markets, like German? Or maybe local markets?

[Leanoric]

I havent checked Euro ebay or any local markets, it’s probably easier just to get one from uk ebay tbh.

[CaptureCraft]

OK. I would recommend Sony (with TBC!), but not digital. The Sony video processors have an odd quirk. They add vertical colourful line on the right side of the frame. The color of the line depends on the color of video on that spot. For example, brown becomes green, blue could be colorless.
However, latest digital models have this line much wider then earlier, not the digital ones.

[Leanoric]

Ok thanks, I’ll keep an eye out for a Sony.

[Alwyn]

2 tapes? Send them to Video99.

[Leanoric]

Yep, only two tapes. If I cant get a camcorder for a reasonable price I’ll send them off.

[dellsam34]

Look for camcorders with broken display or camera side, They are usually cheaper, but you have to confirm the tape playback from the video output works if the seller can do that.

There are some members here that are from Europe, they could do them for you at a lower cost.

[Leanoric]

I’m looking at this one, no built in tbc though. Will the es-10 work in the same way as it does with vhs?

[CaptureCraft]

Even though es-10 will work with that camera, I would not recommend to purchase it because it doesn't have S-Video out.

[Alwyn]

And it only has mono audio by the looks.

[Leanoric]

Shouldn’t s-video connection with a pal es-10 be avoided? I can’t find the posts about it now but maybe something to do with whites being clipped on pal es-10’s being used as a pass through with s-video.

Will mono audio be a problem?

[Alwyn]

Will mono audio be a problem?

Not really a "problem" but you'll miss one side if your tapes are in stereo. I don't know a lot about Hi8, but some Hi8 camcorders recorded in Stereo and had S-Video Out and Stereo Out ports.

[The_Doman]

I’m looking at this one, no built in tbc though. Will the es-10 work in the same way as it does with vhs?

It should work/stabilize the same as with any other analog tape source.
As mentioned, it is mono and composite only, which is a bummer, of course.
But if it is cheap and works well, maybe?
And the ES-10 can help a lot with its comb filter to feed S-Video to your capture card.

[CaptureCraft]

Shouldn’t s-video connection with a pal es-10 be avoided? I can’t find the posts about it now but maybe something to do with whites being clipped on pal es-10’s being used as a pass through with s-video.

Will mono audio be a problem?

It is all about quality.
S-Video provides a better quality of video because it allows to skip 2 steps of video transformation.
Mono is not a problem if you're OK to loose the original stereo sound.
Having TBC would allow you to bypass ES-10 with its quirks.
It is all about compromise.

[lollo]

^^^
this

However, sometimes ES-10 (stronger) corrects defects that the internal TBC is not able to fix (but internal TBC is preferable if possible).

[CaptureCraft]

^^^
this

However, sometimes ES-10 (stronger) corrects defects that the internal TBC is not able to fix.

Yes, you're absolutely correct.
However, in case of Hi8 video there practically not a chance to have such errors, while having them on VHS is pretty much given.

[lordsmurf]

Will mono audio be a problem?

Not at all.

The entire concept of "stereo camcorder" is rather silly, as it's just a single-sited microphone on the camera. It's more gimmick than actual stereo audio that was recorded on home tapes.

[Alwyn]

The entire concept of "stereo camcorder" is rather silly, as it's just a single-sited microphone on the camera. It's more gimmick than actual stereo audio that was recorded on home tapes.

I very much doubt Sony went to all that trouble (and menu programming as well, and the two audio jacks) for a gimmick.


[Attachment 93572 - Click to enlarge]

[dellsam34]

Video8 format uses frequency modulation where the audio signals are modulated directly into the video carrier frequency and read by the video heads, The left channel is multiplexed into the right channel, If the camcorder picks the main right channel and ignore the secondary one then he will miss one channel, So people standing on the left side of the camcorder their voices may sound low, Being a low end camcorder, it could be designed to playback its own mono recordings only, so as a cost cutting measure, demultiplexing is not required to playback the main audio channel, That's how early camcorders were designed, only one audio channel.

But if it process both channels and down mix into mono then that shouldn't be a problem at all being a single point shoot camcorder, The angle of stereo on consumer camcorders is very narrow.

The other thing is some Hi8 camcorders did have PCM audio capability, So if his tapes have digital audio he will be missing out on a great audio quality.

[CaptureCraft]

Video8 format uses frequency modulation where the audio signals are modulated directly into the video carrier frequency and read by the video heads, The left channel is multiplexed into the right channel, If the camcorder picks the main right channel and ignore the secondary one then he will miss one channel, So people standing on the left side of the camcorder their voices may sound low, Being a low end camcorder, it could be designed to playback its own mono recordings only, so as a cost cutting measure, demultiplexing is not required to playback the main audio channel, That's how early camcorders were designed, only one audio channel.

But if it process both channels and down mix into mono then that shouldn't be a problem at all being a single point shoot camcorder, The angle of stereo on consumer camcorders is very narrow.

The other thing is some Hi8 camcorders did have PCM audio capability, So if his tapes have digital audio he will be missing out on a great audio quality.

Sorry, but you're not correct about how camcorders record audio.
They don't record left and right channel. They mixed them the same way as FM Stereo. So there're 2 channels: mix of left+right and mix of left-right.
So, if you read "mono" channel left+right then you get mono. If you read both channels, then you can restore original left and right channels by applying the second mix as is and as inverted phase right-left.

[dellsam34]

Yes, something like that, I don't remember exactly how it is multiplexed but I know there is multiplexing/demultiplexing going on, My point was that depends on how the mono camcorder is processing the audio channels, One has to look up its service manual to see exactly how those L and R channels get demultiplexed and downmixed to a mono channel or is it just picking one audio channel from the get go.