Overall recommendations ?

[rgr]

Substantive argumentation as usual

There is nothing to argument. The facts are the facts, across tens of evidences.

But your imaginations are not facts. And opinions are worthless.

Well, it's time to learn to read changelogs. The capture module made several fixes after version 1.9.3, but practically none after that.

You are mixing the different goals. Play attention in your reply. The change logs not always tells everything.

This, we are waiting for a summary of the changes in this module. (Yes, I know, there will be no answer)

Yes, "various".

Yes. Do you prefere "all of them"? Do you need a specific table with all the settings that have been tried?

That's basically what it's all about. But you have no idea about it...

[lollo]

But your imaginations are not facts. And opinions are worthless.

I do not have opinion, but test on the field, as already discussed. Your attempt to dismantle the reality are so pathetic...

This, we are waiting for a summary of the changes in this module. (Yes, I know, there will be no answer)

I do not own the code of VirtualDub; relying on the changelog is generally not safe; there are evidences on the field that the capture engine show regression. That's enough.

Yes, "various".

That's basically what it's all about. But you have no idea about it...

Maybe you can contact the "author" with a PM on DigitalFAQ. Then let us know what you'll find out, charlatan.

[rgr]

But your imaginations are not facts. And opinions are worthless.

I do not have opinion, but test on the field, as already discussed. Your attempt to dismantle the reality are so pathetic...

Your "pseudo-test" based on two different sources has already been ridiculed, so I won't go back to it

This, we are waiting for a summary of the changes in this module. (Yes, I know, there will be no answer)

I do not own the code of VirtualDub; relying on the changelog is generally not safe; there are evidences on the field that the capture engine show regression. That's enough.

"Yes, I know, there will be no answer"

Yes, "various".

That's basically what it's all about. But you have no idea about it...

Maybe you can contact the "author" with a PM on DigitalFAQ. Then let us know what you'll find out, charlatan.

Should I reply to a post from 5 years ago? No, thanks.

[lollo]

Your "pseudo-test" based on two different sources has already been ridiculed, so I won't go back to it

Ridiculed by whom? By you? You're not competent to judge anything I do.

That's the ultimate test versus a solid reference. There is nothig to add nor to comment about it.


About the rest, think what you want and do what you wish, the frame is clear to anyone!

[Sharc]

The OP didn't complain about lost frames or similar. He just asked for capture tools alternatives. That's all. He has the choice.

[lollo]

Yes, and OP had my answer.

Then rgr wanted to mention me, as usual. He must be obsessed by me

[CaptureCraft]

The latest version of VirtualDub2 (v2.5.3.1197) is out.
https://github.com/v0lt/VirtualDub2/releases/tag/2.5.3

[GAhere]

I talked about "quality" capture, not some crap online deinterlacing without time base correction and potentially Rec.601 adherence issues and who knows what else.

Not sure you understand that we ware talking about different worlds. In the past we analyzed in the forum captures from this kind of devices or similar used as "weird" digitizer, and guess what...

Lollo, you are pretty funny to say the least.

Here is a PC screen shot from a capture I have done without ANY special processing, no TBCs, no passthrough any other device, just straight from VCR into my Argosy recorder using only composite video. Observe the sides of the video as that is where the timing issues will show the most.


[Attachment 93560 - Click to enlarge]

The sides show very little bending which indicates the lack of timing issues that a TBC should fix, at best I could only find a few minor slight bends but when playing the video I have not been able to notice any distortion movement. I will gladly take a slight un-noticable bend over any distortions induced by adding other devices into the composite video chain. Overall the video is very watchable and plays well on PC and TV.

For the record, ALL video recording devices to be sold in the US, must obey copy protection, my DVD recorder does obey, will not record if it detects a Macrovision protected tape. While it will pass through signal, it also passes through the Macrovision signal as do all of the VCRS I have tried. If the DVD recorder I have really has TBC working on passthrough, it should have been able to easily overcome the interference signal of Macrovision. It doesn't. Even VCR pass through is a very dodgy and highly questionable process as even my Hi8mm decks will easily pass Macrovision. Technically Macrovision is nothing more than an intentional insertion of a jamming frequency signal into the Horizontal timing signal, CRT TVs ignored the signal as they only used the Horizontal timing pulse in the video to synchronize the the Horizontal oscillator that drives the Horizontal flyback. Modern LCD TVs are designed to ignore the jamming signal, but VCRs and DVD recorders are not and do not.

The standalone recorders I have were built during a loophole that existed before the MPAA managed to get that loophole closed so they ignore copy protection.

I have a couple of early VHS tapes that were recorded on very early VHS portable recorder that used a separate camera which was made late 1978 or 1979 well before "all in one" camcorders. That video technology was in its infancy and extremely crude. The DVD recorder detected the tape as having Macrovison, blocking direct recording, there is no way that could happen as Macrovision was never added to the tapes consumers made. The work around I had at that time was using a Hi8mm deck to record the VHS onto and then using the Hi8mm deck as playback into the DVD recorder.

However, the standalone video recorders I eventually bought were able to record those early VHS recordings directly with no issue.

Anyway, from my interactions with this forum I get the feeling that there is zero interest in trying new video capturing paths..

[The 14th Doctor]

Because any new option is either crap, ain't it's intended purpose (ie using a RetroTink for analog tape capture when it was designed, and excels at, playing old video game consoles on new HDMI TVs / capturing them from a modern capture card) or in the case of decode, an overly complicated, always changing, conflicting mess of a method that produces worse to on par-ish results, add on a cult leader who acts like hot shit to boot and you a recipe for a hostile community.

[rgr]

It's hard to deduce anything from this image, it's so compressed.
Here, all the video capture paths have long been covered... it would be hard for anyone to look at unmade devices.
I have one myself (ER330), I sent one back (Hauppauge) because it was a shit worse than a $5 Chinese junk.

[lollo]

Here is a PC screen shot from a capture I have done without ANY special processing, no TBCs, no passthrough any other device, just straight from VCR into my Argosy recorder using only composite video. Observe the sides of the video as that is where the timing issues will show the most.

Post a sample of the video, not a fixed image.

Overall the video is very watchable and plays well on PC and TV.

Because you have nothing to compare with!

Anyway, from my interactions with this forum I get the feeling that there is zero interest in trying new video capturing paths..

Because a part the recommended lossless workflow and the SDI workflow, there are no "quality" new video capturing paths.

edit: BTW, let's do this: capture a tape with your method. Then you will send the tape to me at my expenses. I will capture it and we will compare the results.

[rgr]

So Claude is a dumbo. Noted.

[Gary34]

He’s making the ES-15 sound ancient and promoting the use of newer gear but that Argosy HV359T isn’t that much newer than the ES-15. The ES-15 came out in 2006. The Argosy HV359T came out in 2009.

[lollo]

Yes, but anyhow is not a question of the age of the devices, but rather their quality.

[Gary34]

Yes, but anyhow is not a question of the age of the devices, but rather their quality.

Yeah you’re right. It’s a trash device. The claims are kinda ridiculous too.

[lollo]

I do not know if it's a trash device, I never tried it (and you know that in general I base my comments on direct experience). But should be similar to what we analyzed in the past in the forum, so, yes, looks suspicious.

[Gary34]

Okay so no one should say it is a trash device unless they have tried that specific device.

[lollo]

That's an extreme. Sorry, I am not english native, so I may do not catch the "tone" of some posts.

[Gary34]

Okay I see Lollo. You thought I was saying that you thought it was a trash device. I was saying you were right about the quality being what was in question and then I claimed it was a trash device. I think that’s a safe assumption saying it’s trash compared to a lossless workflow with TBCs. I haven’t personally tried the device so it is an assumption but a very safe one.

[lollo]

I think that’s a safe assumption saying it’s trash compared to a lossless workflow with TBCs. I haven’t personally tried the device so it is an assumption but a very safe one.

Yes to everything!

[StuartCameronCode]

Personally I've got a GV-USB2 and I'm using AmarecTV to capture. I've not had a single dropped frame, and the results are decent. From there I drop videos into VapourBox (I wrote it to make the process easier) for deinterlacing, border cleanup, chroma fixes etc and I'm really happy with the end result.

I've tried 4 different VCR's before landing on one I'm happy with and honestly that makes more of a difference than whatever capture solution you're using down-stream. We're dealing with an analog signal here, and so much of what you saw on-screen in the 80's and 90's came down to an already opinionated approach differing from unit to unit. There are SO many variables.

Yes, you can go down a rabbit hole of RF recording and software decoding etc etc, but we're dealing with often 30+ year old magnetic media that is degrading more and more with every year you spend procrastinating about buying the best setup or arguing on forums about it.

The best setup is the best hardware you have access to now. Capture it whilst you can, but do some research into how make the most of the hardware you have. Read up on interlacing, if you can capture interlaced rather than letting a low quality USB stick throw away every second frame then do that.

If you then get access to a better solution down the track you can always re-capture then, but use what you have and ignore all the judgement.

[Gary34]

If you then get access to a better solution down the track you can always re-capture then, but use what you have and ignore all the judgement.

The gear situation will be worse later. Tapes get worse with each play back. People might as well capture the best they are going to now. Paying twice and capturing the same tapes twice wouldn’t be advisable.

[StuartCameronCode]

If you then get access to a better solution down the track you can always re-capture then, but use what you have and ignore all the judgement.

The gear situation will be worse later. Tapes get worse with each play back. People might as well capture the best they are going to now. Paying twice and capturing the same tapes twice wouldn’t be advisable.

I'm not an expert in this, and there's always going to be some minor degradation with each playback, but I suspect if it's a year later when you get access to capture gear then there's a good chance you'll lose more with the additional aging of the tape rather than what you lost on the first capture. Unless the unit eats the tape of course the first time around, you want to make sure you've got a decent enough VCR with clean heads - but you're not renting it out like Blockbuster.

[Gary34]

Some tapes playback can effect more. There could be microshedding.

[Sharc]

...... but use what you have and ignore all the judgement.

Hmmm ..... questionable to ignore once you see what he got in his other thread:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/421026-LG-V281-DVD-VCR-Combo-USB-Capture-Card-stra...e3#post2802837

[StuartCameronCode]

Not ideal, but everyone has a fumbled first go. Or dozen. Asking for help is a good thing. Finding online guides is better .

[rgr]

Personally I've got a GV-USB2 and I'm using AmarecTV to capture. I've not had a single dropped frame, and the results are decent.
.

You have dropped frames; AmarecTV simply doesn't report them (ialways shows a magical 0).

[StuartCameronCode]

It'd be pretty noticeable if I did, especially with the 50hz QTGMC frame rate conversion. The captures are silky smooth from start to end - no frame hitches, no A/V desyncs. There are a lot of factors that can cause stutters in video capture, and different software is likely to take different approaches to mitigating them. What works for you may not work for others and vice versa. PC hardware and associated drivers vary a LOT.

[lollo]

Not ideal, but everyone has a fumbled first go. Or dozen. Asking for help is a good thing. Finding online guides is better .

I understand your point, but the problem is that there are very few good "online guides". This forum and doom9's forum helped a lot of people to improve the quality of their capture