How to get best quality for AVCHD to MPEG-2 for DVD

[sdsumike619]

I have 1080P footage that I need to convert to NTSC (widescreen) MPEG-2 for DVD authoring. I use Vegas for my NLE, but I don't like the resultant quality encoding to MPEG-2 from Vegas, probably because of whatever resizing algorithm the main concept encoder uses. I can encode a ProRes intermediary, and then use another tool to convert that to MPEG-2. AI suggested using Hybrid, along with Shutter encoder. I took one look at Hybrid and ran, looks very complicated! Is there some easier workflow available where I can try other resizing algorithms and/or other tools?

[davexnet]

Try DVD encoding/authoring apps AVStoDVD or DVDStyler.
I would say AtoD has superior encoding options and quality, while DVDStyler has better/more
authoring/menu capability

[sdsumike619]

Ultimately, I'm going to be using my old Adobe Encore for the authoring.. I suppose I could try its encoder.
Does AVStoDVD let you just encode the mpeg2 files only?

[davexnet]

Ultimately, I'm going to be using my old Adobe Encore for the authoring.. I suppose I could try its encoder.
Does AVStoDVD let you just encode the mpeg2 files only?

Yes it does, from the "output" button at the top

[sdsumike619]

Thanks I'm checking it out now!

[davexnet]

Thanks I'm checking it out now!

It uses Avisynth. DO you already have it installed? If not, just run the installer and allow it to install; it will also install
the VB common controls

[sdsumike619]

Yep, I've got avisynth installed already, thanks!

[sdsumike619]

I checked the option for it to show the command parameters before encoding, and I notice it says progressive. I believe for 29.97fps footage, it needs to be interlaced for the DVD spec.

[sdsumike619]

Never mind, I found the settings, had to dig around a bit, so far so good though!

[davexnet]

Never mind, I found the settings, had to dig around a bit, so far so good though!

In the past I've found that's it's perfectly safe to leave it as progressive if the source is such.
Set it to interlace when the source is actually interlaced. You may get some visual disturbances if it's incorrect

[Bencuri]

Vegas is not good in downgrading videos. I had this problem as well many times, feeded 1080p videos into Vegas, and the resulting video is blurry. The guys here helped me to solve this with Avisynth and HCEnc.

If you edit in Vegas, the best way to do it is:
1. Check this tutorial, and install Debugmode Frameserver for Vegas. I installed this about a decade ago for Vegas 12, used the installer 2.14 that is 32 bit. It worked for me. I still use Vegas 12 anyway. I remember I tried to install this from a different version for a different Vegas version on Windows 10, I did not succeed. So I recommend to try the 2.14 version of the installer first. Secondly, when you have it installed, you need to use 32 bit avisynth with it. I don't remember if it works with simple Avisynth or even with Avisynth+, if one doesn't work try the other.
Tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_m1jp0SdDw
Download: https://www.debugmode.com/download?name=fssetup32

2. When you have it installed you need to create an Avisynth script. This was the script that I used, you may need to modify it to match the settings to your files. This is for progressive PAL videos.

AviSource("C:\Users\yourID\Videos\yourvideo.avi")
AssumeFPS(25)
ColorMatrix(mode="rec.709->rec.601") 
BilinearResize(720,576)
ConvertToYV12()

3. Then you will need HCEnc, you can download it from the forum repository. And the workflow is the following:

- Edit in Vegas, then click Render as and select the Frameserver and choose a name for the file. The Frameserver will create a temporary avi file.
- Open HCEnc, set it according to your needs, and set the input to be the avisynth script.
- Click convert or whatever is the start button in HCEnc, and your file will be created. It will be top quality.
- You need to export the audio separately from Vegas. Than mux it with the file created by HCEnc. Be careful, I had problems with exportin as AC3 from Vegas. The volume might be cranked up by Vegas to the level that it will distort. As I remember I solved this in a way that I saved the audio as WAV from Vegas, then I used AVStoDVD converter for Muxing, choosing the AC3 encoder and FFMpeg on the Audio panel. The essence: after muxing verify the volume is correct and the audio does not distort. If it does, you need to do it my way.

4. For authoring use DVDStyler, much more easy to use than others, and better result. There was another one called Womble Video Wizard, but it became an abandonware, if you find it online you can use that too. Many other softwares will mess up the video quality or have very primitive DVD Themes.

If it seems too complicated don't worry, follow the steps that I have written about, if you get stuck somewhere ask and I try to help. The guys here might suggest a different script, rely on their advice for the code. IT's worth the effort because this will guarantee a satisfying pro quality outcome.

[The_Doman]

I have 1080P footage that I need to convert to NTSC (widescreen) MPEG-2 for DVD authoring.

What exactly is the source video format?
1080p 60(59.94)fps or something else like 24p/30(29.97)p?
Depending on the source you can/want to convert to 30 PsF or true 60i for best smooth motion.

[sdsumike619]

Thanks for the additional replies. My source footage is AVCHD, 29.97fps, and it's progressive, it's technically the PF30 which is filmed in 60i according to the booklet, but it's treated as progressive. The workflow I decided on is to render an apple prores 422 file from Vegas at 1080P, and then bring that into AVStoDVD, and I use the following avisynth script with it:

Video = Video.ColorMatrix(source=0,dest=2)
Video = Video.ConvertToYV12()
Video = Video.RemoveGrain(1)
Video = Video.Spline36Resize(720,480)
Video = Video.Sharpen(0.15,0.15)

I think the output is good, it's much better than Vegas's Mainconcept encoder, and honestly, for the number of DVDs that will be sold in this format, it's not super critical. But maybe I'll try the bilinear resizing algorithm to see if it's any better. I asked AI which is better and it thinks spline is:

"Use spline36 instead of bilinear. Bilinear creates a blurry, soft image because it averages pixels too simply. Spline36 retains fine details when downscaling from 1080p to standard-definition 720x480 NTSC DVD, while avoiding the harsh edge ringing or halo artifacts caused by Lanczos"

[Bencuri]

Thanks for the additional replies. My source footage is AVCHD, 29.97fps, and it's progressive, it's technically the PF30 which is filmed in 60i according to the booklet, but it's treated as progressive. The workflow I decided on is to render an apple prores 422 file from Vegas at 1080P, and then bring that into AVStoDVD, and I use the following avisynth script with it:

Video = Video.ColorMatrix(source=0,dest=2)
Video = Video.ConvertToYV12()
Video = Video.RemoveGrain(1)
Video = Video.Spline36Resize(720,480)
Video = Video.Sharpen(0.15,0.15)

I think the output is good, it's much better than Vegas's Mainconcept encoder, and honestly, for the number of DVDs that will be sold in this format, it's not super critical. But maybe I'll try the bilinear resizing algorithm to see if it's any better. I asked AI which is better and it thinks spline is:

"Use spline36 instead of bilinear. Bilinear creates a blurry, soft image because it averages pixels too simply. Spline36 retains fine details when downscaling from 1080p to standard-definition 720x480 NTSC DVD, while avoiding the harsh edge ringing or halo artifacts caused by Lanczos"

This is a good workflow, you don't need to change it. I would not use AVStoDVD for authoring, for me the DVDStyler is easier to control and has better templates, but if you are satisfied with the template AVStoDVD is not a bad choice, at least it does the tasks correctly. For conversion only AVStoDVD is fine as well.

[sdsumike619]

I actually found my old Adobe Encore, so I'll just use that, I'll take an old project and modify the menus and all that stuff, I'm sure it will come back to me..

The one thing I did like reading about your workflow is the frame serving. I don't know if it would be better/faster to frame serve, or to render the apple prores intermediate, and then use that for my source.

[_Al_]

Vegas frame server serves rgb as in full levels, so avisynth script should acknowledge that, not sure how exactly the code is, it was so long ago, if not taking care of this, levels will not be as original video, or might not be, that is a question, in Vegas it even depends on original source, so if levels do not match, using vapoursynth line, not avisynth:

video = core.resize.Point (clip=video, format=vs.YUV420P8, matrix_s="470bg", range_s="full")

or in Vegas properties to check box for pixel format/ 32 floating point (but everything takes longer to process)
Also if op has current or later Vegas version, I'd use everything 64bit, latest vegas 64bit frame server, 64bit Avisynth

[Bencuri]

We have discussed this recently in another thread, and to match colors, you need to select Full range in the pixel format (in my Vegas version it is only available for 32 bit). Or you need to use this code that was suggested by Sharc. So leaving the Pixel format on default 8 bit, and in the Avisynth script you write:

z_ConvertFormat(pixel_type="YUV420P8",colorspace_op="fcc:709:709:l=>709:709:709:f",dither_type="ordered")

I just don't remember if you use this Avysinth command, which output you need to select on the Frameserver Panel. RGB or YUY2.

[sdsumike619]

This is getting far more complicated than I need it to be. My workflow seems to work, maybe it takes longer by rendering the intermediate, but it's a lot simpler than trying to do frame serving. I just export to apple pro res, and import that into AVStoDVD, and then use the HCenc encoder to create the DVD compliant MPEG-2.

[VWestlife]

I use Serif MoviePlus X6, an older video editor with built-in DVD authoring, including menu creation. It has various options for scaling method, bit rate, frame rate, quality level, etc.

[Bencuri]

This is getting far more complicated than I need it to be. My workflow seems to work, maybe it takes longer by rendering the intermediate, but it's a lot simpler than trying to do frame serving. I just export to apple pro res, and import that into AVStoDVD, and then use the HCenc encoder to create the DVD compliant MPEG-2.

You should pick whichever you feel the best. The Frameserving is useful if you need an advanced "factory" editor but would like to use the precision of HCEnc or other similar encoders on rendering. I don't know how much new versions of Vegas or Adobe Premier improved in this sense, but back in the days when Vegas 12.0 was new, they produced poor rendering outputs on several occasions. So this was a useful workaround to use the editing capabilities on one side and converting capabilities on the other. My computer is slow compared to genral video editing hardware, so for me converting twice would be a problem. If you have a strong machine, this is not an issue to convert to a transport format, then to a final.

[_Al_]

We have discussed this recently in another thread, and to match colors, you need to select Full range in the pixel format (in my Vegas version it is only available for 32 bit). Or you need to use this code that was suggested by Sharc. So leaving the Pixel format on default 8 bit, and in the Avisynth script you write:

z_ConvertFormat(pixel_type="YUV420P8",colorspace_op="fcc:709:709:l=>709:709:709:f",dither_type="ordered")

I just don't remember if you use this Avysinth command, which output you need to select on the Frameserver Panel. RGB or YUY2.

vapoursynth uses this zlib resizer as default resizer, in avisynth it is z_ConvertFormat()
In Vegas , select RGB while exporting frame server, because Vegas internally has video in RGB, and then trust Avisynth to change it to YUV420P8.

[timtape]

DVD is fine for lower def material but I'm wondering why convert 1080p down to DVD. The audio wont suffer but the picture will.

[Bencuri]

DVD is fine for lower def material but I'm wondering why convert 1080p down to DVD. The audio wont suffer but the picture will.

I have to note that the quality degradation may not be as bad as one might expect. If the input is good and the conversion is good, watching the DVD on newer HDTVs that has good upconverting features will display it in a quality that the normal audience will define as "HD". I have a specific reason to still make DVDs, but it's not my thread so I let sdsumike619 to describe his reasons if he wants.

[timtape]

DVD is fine for lower def material but I'm wondering why convert 1080p down to DVD. The audio wont suffer but the picture will.

I have to note that the quality degradation may not be as bad as one might expect. If the input is good and the conversion is good, watching the DVD on newer HDTVs that has good upconverting features will display it in a quality that the normal audience will define as "HD". I have a specific reason to still make DVDs...

The best test is direct visual comparison of the 1080 with the DVD Video. I guess there's nothing wrong with converting 1080p to DVD so long as we accept the inevitable degradation of the picture. I still occasionally convert peoples VHS/Beta etc home videos to DVD because it was always a good match. Both formats are also natively interlaced so that is preserved, and if the 2 hour DVD recording limit isnt exceeded the visual result is very close to the source in my experience.

Going the other way, it's a bit sad when these days people who already have good DVD box sets of old SD analog TV shows are wooed into buying them all over again in BluRay for the alleged improved picture quality. On the other hand many old top tier TV shows were shot on 35mm film. We didnt get to see them at their best until the arrival of BluRay and HD TV.

[lollo]

Going the other way, it's a bit sad when these days people who already have good DVD box sets of old SD analog TV shows are wooed into buying them all over again in BluRay for the alleged improved picture quality. On the other hand many old top tier TV shows were shot on 35mm film. We didnt get to see them at their best until the arrival of BluRay and HD TV.

Agreed 100%.

Here some comparisons we did on "old TV shows shot on 35mm film" last releases:
https://c21.ufoseries.com/articles/dvd-vs-blu-ray-video
https://c21.ufoseries.com/articles/ufo-blu-ray-comparison

[sdsumike619]

Oh sorry, yes the reason for needing to convert HD to DVD is because this is for a commercial product. A segment of our customer base, generally senior aged men, still prefer the tangible DVD format to online streaming formats, which of course we also offer for the majority of customers.