Seek advice regarding graphics card upgrade

[jgg]

I can only repeat my thanks to the many people who have taken the time to contribute to this thread.

Just be sure the card can run on your Motherboard etc.

Whoa! Ummm, why shouldn't any of the cards under discussion so far, all of which are "mainstream", be able to run on my motherboard? As I mentioned at the outset, my machine is a Lenovo ThinkStation S20. It's certainly not state of the art, but in regard to graphics cards, all of which are, I think, backwards compatible, I'm not quite sure what the concern should be.

A bigger problem, as far as I can see, is the resolution: For example, I discovered that an Asus card I was looking at can't run my NEC PA272W at native resolution.

... Should "faster" be much of a consideration for those not playing video games on their PC?

Well, as I said, I'm trying to pick up a bit of speed in the rendering of my little movies, but figuring out whether this will actually happen is apparently less straightforward than I originally assumed.

I simply can't see how people, like jgg waste their money for hopeless outdated hardware.

I'd contend it's a question of what the buyer is trying to achieve. Personally, I think putting the very latest graphics card into my old computer really doesn't make much sense.

Having said this, I have a Matrox C420 in my main ThinkStation S20, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'd like to buy another one for the other machine, but they're simply too expensive for me at the moment.

Last but not least: I was also thinking that a huge cooler (passive cooling) is great, but I tested it and got disappointed. If you don't have any airflow, it will be always heat in the case ...

The Lenovo ThinkStation S20 is a big workstation with three fans. https://thinkorama.wordpress.com/thinkstation/thinkstation-s20/thinkstation-s20-part-4/ (See Pic. 12). I think I'm OK vis-à-vis the airflow issue.

https://www.caseking.de/msi-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-gaming-4g-4096-mb-gddr5-gcmc-163.html. Der Shop ist in Berlin, da kannst du auch vor Ort kaufen

OK, but it costs twice as much as I had planned to spend.

If I wanted to invest so much, I'd definitely buy this Palit card: http://www.palit.com/palit/vgapro.php?id=2823

Anyway, as of now, the Palit GTX 750 Ti passive is at the top of my list.

Hmmm, let's see what tomorrow brings.

Again, my thanks to everyone who's replied so far.

[Bernix]

Just take in account also energy the difference is big (lower energy consumption lower power supply demand, less heat (especially with passive cooling)). And used and unused take in account also warranty. The performance difference isn't big (overall), but big is performance per watt. 60w vs 35w.
That's all I want to say.

Bernix

[jgg]

Just take in account also energy the difference is big (lower energy consumption lower power supply demand), less heat (especially with passive cooling).

Yes, electricity is expensive here in Germany, but I don't think it's gonna break the bank one way or the other. And my machine has a 630W power supply.

And used and unused take in account also warranty.

Buying used stuff is always a crap shoot. Having said this, virtually all of my computer stuff was bought used. Thank God, I've been lucky so far.

[Bernix]

Hi,
When it has tdp 60w it doesnt mean it will take max 60w. Under duty it means around 80w or so. Your PSU is 640w but it doesn't mean it takes 640w all the time. But of course lots of watts eats your processors (Xeon is demanding, isnt?).
There is big difference in removing heat directly and indirectly. But both card Palit 750ti and GT 1030 are passive. If you think your case fans will do this, you can be wrong (but of course passive cooled GPU is build for solution to remove heat from chip as they can). But 80 watts generates far much heat in oposite to say 50 watts (but probably less). The heat isnt in whole case, it is on GPU chip. So it takes longer for lower power consumption to stop working because of high heat to prevent damage. Not sure if 750ti or 1030 or even 1050ti has this feature as modern CPU has.
And lastly, but I dont know if it can work with your motherboard, cant you buy used 1030 with or without warranty even cheaper? There should be lots of people that bought it and was disappointed with its performance (gamers and similar people). As I already wrote, GT 1030 new you can get for less than 78 euros. It isnt big difference.
And dont worry I will no more bother you.
See you

Bernix

[jgg]

As I already wrote, GT 1030 new you can get for less than 78 euros.

How about this one? https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GT-1030-2GH-LP-OC.html

I can get it for about 65 euros new with guarantee.

Any you're not bothering me at all. Thanks for your help.

[Bernix]

Hi jgg,
just asking my pal if iam right with preferring 1030 over 750ti. He is much more better in PC things. He builds pc so he knows, and his suggestions are really good.

flashandpan007
as I wrote about asus Fan xpert, I updated windows and it stopped working. What coincidence. There are some serious problem with processors and systems when you give to search meltdown and spectre, I think you will find more.

Bernix

[jgg]

Hi jgg,
just asking my pal if iam right with preferring 1030 over 750ti. He is much more better in PC things. He builds pc so he knows, and his suggestions are really good.

Thanks. I look forward to hearing what he has to say.

flashandpan007
... meltdown and spectre ...

Regarding meltdown and spectre, I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm going to report my experience so far.

I downloaded the Windows patch (for Win 7 kb4056897) manually. I checked that my AV programs (Norton Internet Security v. 22.11.2.7 and the latest Malwarebytes) are compatible (they are), and then I installed it on two machines: one of my Lenovo S20s and a Lenovo X200s laptop.

In both cases, the patch appears to be ok; no noticeable slowdowns or anything.

The only problem was on the laptop, on which I have the program Sandboxie. After applying the patch, it became "incompatible", but there's already an update (https://forums.sandboxie.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=25114&sid=25f1a9311f2441124d4fdc20a9cfc53b). It solved the problem.

OHO!!! I This morning (05 Jan) Microsoft released another out-of-band update. For Win 7x64 it's kb4056894. I've just installed it and the one mentioned above on my test Lenovo S20 (the one I want to put the new graphiucs card in). Everything appears to be working OK, thank God.

Your mileage may vary.

[flashandpan007]

flashandpan007
as I wrote about asus Fan xpert, I updated windows and it stopped working. What coincidence. There are some serious problem with processors and systems when you give to search meltdown and spectre, I think you will find more.

Bernix

I know as little as the others about that meltdown and spectre. Did you a clean new installation or upgrade the old windows version to the newer one?

[Bernix]

I was referring to this post.

For quiet airflow simply use quiet big PWM fans and let them run on their minimum, then it's always cold in your case.

I think is better to use some program to control fans in case. I have asus, so using Fan Xpert, there are also 3rd party softwares for brands that do not developed its own software, advantage is, that heat is not acumulated in some parts of case. The program run test of all fans CPU, Case (motherboard) and makes profiles, silent, normal end with full speed. So the speed of fans and temperatures are optimal.

If you mean that problem in general internet is full of this.

Edit: Not just ordinary update of win10 for 64bit ........

Bernix

[usually_quiet]

How about this one? https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GT-1030-2GH-LP-OC.html

I can get it for about 65 euros new with guarantee.

I read the user reviews at two major online retailers to look for problems. Some complained that it is difficult to change the full-height bracket that is pre-installed on this card to a low profile bracket because one of the screws used to attach the bracket to the card is under the heat sink. Another reviewer with an older PC said it was necessary to update his system's BIOS for this card to perform well.

[jgg]

How about this one? https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GT-1030-2GH-LP-OC.html

I can get it for about 65 euros new with guarantee.

I read the user reviews at two major online retailers to look for problems. Some complained that it is difficult to change the full-height bracket that is pre-installed on this card to a low profile bracket because one of the screws used to attach the bracket to the card is under the heat sink. Another reviewer with an older PC said it was necessary to update his system's BIOS for this card to perform well.

Thanks. I need the full-height bracket anyway, so that's no problem.

My Lenovo is also "an older PC", but I have the latest BIOS. I guess there's no way to know whether it'll work except to try it. Hmmmm ...

[Bernix]

If you really needn't it for playing games, just watching internet videos and browsing I still think GT 1030, but if you want play a games 750ti is better. Watched comparison on youtube temperature is about 10 celsius higher in 750ti and FPS about 3-6 higher, but in Vulkan 1030 gets better.
And don't know how in germany, but here you can return what you bought within 14? days. Maybe longer with no reason.
Still waiting for friends reply, he is still in work, but Iam gonna call to him.

Bernix

[jgg]

If you really needn't it for playing games, just watching internet videos and browsing I still think GT 1030, but if you want play a games 750ti is better.

Thanks. I don't play any games - zero. As I said at the beginning, the whole "project" is about improving the rendering speed for my little movies.

Watched comparison on youtube temperature is about 10 celsius higher in 750ti and FPS about 3-6 higher, but in Vulkan 1030 gets better.

Thanks for your concern about this, but I'm not worried about the heat at this point.

And don't know how in germany, but here you can return what you bought within 14? days. Maybe longer with no reason.

Yes, it's the same here.

Still waiting for friends reply, he is still in work, but I am gonna call to him.

OK, thanks.

[usually_quiet]

If you really needn't it for playing games, just watching internet videos and browsing I still think GT 1030, but if you want play a games 750ti is better.

Thanks. I don't play any games - zero. As I said at the beginning, the whole "project" is about improving the rendering speed for my little movies.

A GT 1030 won't improve rendering speed. It doesn't support NVENC, but it appears the software that you use doesn't support NVENC either.

If you decide to switch to software which supports NVENC at a later date, a GTX 750Ti does support NVENC. However, NVENC was improved for the Pascal cards which support it, like the GTX 1050Ti.

Even so, as jagabo wrote, given that you are creating only a few short videos each month, NVENC wouldn't save you a tremendous amount of time if you could use it.

[Bernix]

Hi,
just called him and he agreed with me, that for surfing watching videos (in offline, but in certain cases even online, playing you can use GT 1030 to decode video) He also noted that you should stay with iGPU, since I told him you have Xeon so iGPUless. Also agreed with passive cooling is better GT 1030. He thinks it is enough for your needs.
So I wasn't wrong at least this time Good is also you can try it and return it when it will not fits your expectation!
Edit: You probably needn't even buy new card, but I think your recent card is obsolete and replace is good think

Bernix

[jgg]

... You probably needn't even buy new card, but I think your recent card is obsolete and replace is good think

Given the time and effort you all have put into this thread so far, I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm beginning to believe that my expectations for this entire "project" were based upon the overly simplistic concept of "get a faster piece of hardware and everything is faster".

I think I'm going to spend the weekend trying to recover from my cold and then see what happens.

Again, my thanks to everyone so far.

[Seeker47]

I'm extremely happy with the Intel HD 530 graphics built into the i7-6700K using an Asrock board. I do some pretty intense video editing and video restoration on this system. I do not want the heat or wind-tunnel noise from a whizbang fancy graphics card. Those are for gamers, not serious work.

Point is, integrated works well these days.
And you can get cheapo $50-range cards (+/- $25) that do just as well, if integrated isn't an option.
The above NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 looks to be such a card.

Interesting to hear this. (I've not followed developments in integrated video for a long time. And I've been thinking for some time that the less in the way of "extra cooling" solutions you needed to have in a desktop system could be a real plus.)

In terms of selecting that next cpu, I think I'd be inclined first to see what the fallout will be from this big mess with the "Meltdown" / "Spectre" security flaws that just came to light. Will there be new iterations of these chips ? Or will the expected patches for existing processors really degrade performance as much as some initial reports would have it ?

[usually_quiet]

I'm extremely happy with the Intel HD 530 graphics built into the i7-6700K using an Asrock board. I do some pretty intense video editing and video restoration on this system. I do not want the heat or wind-tunnel noise from a whizbang fancy graphics card. Those are for gamers, not serious work.

Point is, integrated works well these days.
And you can get cheapo $50-range cards (+/- $25) that do just as well, if integrated isn't an option.
The above NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 looks to be such a card.

Interesting to hear this. (I've not followed developments in integrated video for a long time. And I've been thinking for some time that the less in the way of "extra cooling" solutions you needed to have in a desktop system could be a real plus.)

The latest generation of Intel HD Graphics (HD 630/UHD 630 and iris plus graphics 640) are adequate for the needs of most non-gamers, although full UHD video playback support is still not a given with these products. The availability of both HDMI 2.0a and HDR 10 depend on the motherboard and the OS as well as the processor. (Windows 10 is required for HDR 10 support, AFAIK.)

[CursedLemon]

Well, as I said, I'm trying to pick up a bit of speed in the rendering of my little movies, but figuring out whether this will actually happen is apparently less straightforward than I originally assumed.

To be clear, a faster video card will not help you render movies out of an editing program more quickly. That's all CPU.

A video card will only technically help speed up the conversion of a video from one format to H.264 or H.265. Even then, it's only by a little bit, and the quality will suffer some.

[Seeker47]

[QUOTE=jgg;2506439]

Hi jgg,
.

flashandpan007
... meltdown and spectre ...

Regarding meltdown and spectre, I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm going to report my experience so far.

I downloaded the Windows patch (for Win 7 kb4056897) manually. I checked that my AV programs (Norton Internet Security v. 22.11.2.7 and the latest Malwarebytes) are compatible (they are), and then I installed it on two machines: one of my Lenovo S20s and a Lenovo X200s laptop.

In both cases, the patch appears to be ok; no noticeable slowdowns or anything.
. . .
OHO!!! I This morning (05 Jan) Microsoft released another out-of-band update. For Win 7x64 it's kb4056894. I've just installed it and the one mentioned above on my test Lenovo S20 (the one I want to put the new graphiucs card in). Everything appears to be working OK, thank God.

Your mileage may vary.

I also don't wish to divert this thread, but since you brought the subject up, I recalled reading this a few days ago:

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3246028/microsoft-windows/win7-monthly-rollup-kb...h-tuesday.html

[Drop down to the part about Meltdown & Spectre.]

Woody is one of the very best tech journalists in this field, IMO. I'd put a lot of stock in what he had to say.

[Seeker47]

I'm extremely happy with the Intel HD 530 graphics built into the i7-6700K using an Asrock board. I do some pretty intense video editing and video restoration on this system. I do not want the heat or wind-tunnel noise from a whizbang fancy graphics card. Those are for gamers, not serious work.

Point is, integrated works well these days.
And you can get cheapo $50-range cards (+/- $25) that do just as well, if integrated isn't an option.
The above NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 looks to be such a card.

An older thread, I know. If integrated video is not an option for a particular rig: I was wondering about fanless cards (sometimes listed as "Silent") that just have a heat sink. That takes care of the noise, then it's a question of whether they put out much in the way of heat ? Also like to avoid that. Are there any like this you could cite that perform on a par with those listed above, have various ports including HDMI, sufficient onboard RAM -- and preferably single slot ? (But no PCI 3.0, and probably not the very latest HDMI rev., either.) I have no interest in gaming. Have seen some SFF cards, listed as "mini". Pricing is open, just not ridiculous. Does not need to be a current model, as long as it's still findable.

[Seeker47]

I'm extremely happy with the Intel HD 530 graphics built into the i7-6700K using an Asrock board. I do some pretty intense video editing and video restoration on this system. I do not want the heat or wind-tunnel noise from a whizbang fancy graphics card. Those are for gamers, not serious work.

Point is, integrated works well these days.
And you can get cheapo $50-range cards (+/- $25) that do just as well, if integrated isn't an option.
The above NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 looks to be such a card.

I recalled this old post of yours -- the gist of it anyway -- and am glad to find that I did not reference it badly in a recent thread. The subject was not for video editing, but for running Whisper AI in Subtitle Edit 4. This has opened a major door for me, although it's somewhat of an impediment having to devote 8 hours to processing a file -- because the entire load is falling on an i5 CPU + the system RAM. It was suggested to me that a decent video card with its own (adequate amount of) VRAM could make a dramatic improvement there. I am somewhat hamstrung by the approved compatible hardware list for these Shuttle models . . . but I don't want to change computers either. And like you, I'd prefer to avoid excess heat and noise. Can't use any 2-slot graphics cards either. There may well be some CPUs with integrated graphics on the compatible list I'm working from; it's quite possible that the i5 currently in this rig is one such. But it doesn't appear to have a GPU, and it doesn't have its own VRAM.

If you happen to see this, I'd be interested in your comments.

[lordsmurf]

I'm extremely happy with the Intel HD 530 graphics built into the i7-6700K using an Asrock board. I do some pretty intense video editing and video restoration on this system. I do not want the heat or wind-tunnel noise from a whizbang fancy graphics card. Those are for gamers, not serious work.

Point is, integrated works well these days.
And you can get cheapo $50-range cards (+/- $25) that do just as well, if integrated isn't an option.
The above NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 looks to be such a card.

I recalled this old post of yours -- the gist of it anyway -- and am glad to find that I did not reference it badly in a recent thread. The subject was not for video editing, but for running Whisper AI in Subtitle Edit 4. This has opened a major door for me, although it's somewhat of an impediment having to devote 8 hours to processing a file -- because the entire load is falling on an i5 CPU + the system RAM. It was suggested to me that a decent video card with its own (adequate amount of) VRAM could make a dramatic improvement there. I am somewhat hamstrung by the approved compatible hardware list for these Shuttle models . . . but I don't want to change computers either. And like you, I'd prefer to avoid excess heat and noise. Can't use any 2-slot graphics cards either. There may well be some CPUs with integrated graphics on the compatible list I'm working from; it's quite possible that the i5 currently in this rig is one such. But it doesn't appear to have a GPU, and it doesn't have its own VRAM.

If you happen to see this, I'd be interested in your comments.

Audio is historically CPU only, but these new AI tools* want to run in GPU, DPU, ASICs, FPGA, etc. There's no standard.
* Noting some are "AI" tools, ie not real AI.

I finally dumped spinning drives for pure SSD, and I can concentrate better.

I'd look at eGPU, and a long cable into the next room. I don't want to sit in a puddle of my own sweat in a wind tunnel.

BTW, fanless CPU or GPU can work well if the thermal is quality and large. Hint: Noctua.

It was coincidence that I found this thread. Anybody is always welcome to PM me, asking for input, etc. I may not reply quickly, but I do try to always reply!

[Seeker47]

I'm extremely happy with the Intel HD 530 graphics built into the i7-6700K using an Asrock board. I do some pretty intense video editing and video restoration on this system. I do not want the heat or wind-tunnel noise from a whizbang fancy graphics card. Those are for gamers, not serious work.

Point is, integrated works well these days.
And you can get cheapo $50-range cards (+/- $25) that do just as well, if integrated isn't an option.
The above NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 looks to be such a card.

I recalled this old post of yours -- the gist of it anyway -- and am glad to find that I did not reference it badly in a recent thread. The subject was not for video editing, but for running Whisper AI in Subtitle Edit 4. This has opened a major door for me, although it's somewhat of an impediment having to devote 8 hours to processing a file -- because the entire load is falling on an i5 CPU + the system RAM. It was suggested to me that a decent video card with its own (adequate amount of) VRAM could make a dramatic improvement there. I am somewhat hamstrung by the approved compatible hardware list for these Shuttle models . . . but I don't want to change computers either. And like you, I'd prefer to avoid excess heat and noise. Can't use any 2-slot graphics cards either. There may well be some CPUs with integrated graphics on the compatible list I'm working from; it's quite possible that the i5 currently in this rig is one such. But it doesn't appear to have a GPU, and it doesn't have its own VRAM.

If you happen to see this, I'd be interested in your comments.

Audio is historically CPU only, but these new AI tools* want to run in GPU, DPU, ASICs, FPGA, etc. There's no standard.
* Noting some are "AI" tools, ie not real AI.

I finally dumped spinning drives for pure SSD, and I can concentrate better.

I'd look at eGPU, and a long cable into the next room. I don't want to sit in a puddle of my own sweat in a wind tunnel.

BTW, fanless CPU or GPU can work well if the thermal is quality and large. Hint: Noctua.

It was coincidence that I found this thread. Anybody is always welcome to PM me, asking for input, etc. I may not reply quickly, but I do try to always reply!

And thanks very much for your reply. Glad to see that you still visit VH sometimes. (I'm definitely missing some others that apparently no longer do, like my old forum pal orsetto.)

Anyway, whatever it technically is, once I got it working Whisper AI has been nothing short of a revelation. There are rare films I'd "banked" as long as 15 years ago, while their download windows were briefly available, which had no EN subs . . . or no subs, period. These are now becoming watchable, in a much more understandable fashion. Whisper AI is far from infallible, but it is very good, much improved, and much easier to use now. It should only get better. The main complaints I'm hearing involve not having sufficient hardware to run it, which keeps some out of the game, and the extended processing time for a lot of those who can manage to run it.

I do have eSATA ports, a useful feature that I was sorry to see disappear from the market. But eGPU is a new one to me, and I'll have to look that up. SSD is taking over, vs. what jwillis termed "spinning rust", although in the 2TB and over range it is still priced skyward. I sort of swore off of SSD after I fried one with a simple static electricity shock -- something that has never occurred in all my years of working with umpteen HDDs.