Virtualdub2 saves captures as 25gps progressive

[Dutchsteammachine]

I capture PAL with Virtualdub2 to huffyuv as AVI. But for some reason it saves as 25fps progressive. Or at least that is what MPC-HC says with media-info and Hybrid.

Any software that I use to play the files doesn't deinterlace so I get lines at 25fps.

Am I missing a setting or anything?

I tried converting the huffyuv Avi files with hybrid to h264 MP4, overriding the detected system and setting the output to interlaced, turning off deinterlace filter.

(Hybrid also sees my captures as progressive so I have to override what it detects anyways and set to interlaced)

But the output file was still progressive 25fps. I think I need to fix the problem at the source. Would appreciate any help.

[DB83]

Try with the original vdub or even AmarecTV (which is easier to set up)

[DB83]

FYI


The 'villian' is the ffmpeg huffyuv codec. Use a stand-alone huffyuv codec such as 2.1.1 and all will be fine even in vdub2. (Just did a quick test)

[Skiller]

There is no proper interlaced=true/false flag in the AVI container. Therefore, deinterlacing during playback needs to be turned on manually.

[DB83]

^^ Yeah. That's an odd one. A while back I did a similar test with both huffyuv and lagarith captutes (full codecs). huffyuv has a mediainfo entry as reported above whereas lagarith does not. However DV in an avi container also reports interlaced.

[Sharc]

I capture PAL with Virtualdub2 to huffyuv as AVI. But for some reason it saves as 25fps progressive. Or at least that is what MPC-HC says with media-info and Hybrid.

Any software that I use to play the files doesn't deinterlace so I get lines at 25fps.

Am I missing a setting or anything?

I tried converting the huffyuv Avi files with hybrid to h264 MP4, overriding the detected system and setting the output to interlaced, turning off deinterlace filter.

(Hybrid also sees my captures as progressive so I have to override what it detects anyways and set to interlaced)

But the output file was still progressive 25fps. I think I need to fix the problem at the source. Would appreciate any help.

It is generally strongly recommended to inspect the fields of the captured video manually for finding progressive or interlaced + field order, rather than trust some flags or tools "defaults".
Hybrid: Yes, for interlaced huffyuv .avi captures one has normally to overwrite the scan type, like top field first, for example, to get it right.
In the subsequent encoding one also needs to enable interlaced encoding in the 'Frames' tab. Otherwise it may encode interlaced footage as progressive or assume the wrong field order.

If you are in doubt about your captured format you could upload a short sample here.

[Dutchsteammachine]

There is no proper interlaced=true/false flag in the AVI container. Therefore, deinterlacing during playback needs to be turned on manually.

Which container do you recommend?

[Dutchsteammachine]

FYI


The 'villian' is the ffmpeg huffyuv codec. Use a stand-alone huffyuv codec such as 2.1.1 and all will be fine even in vdub2. (Just did a quick test)

Ok, will try that, and upload a short capture to share.

Should I use vdub2 32bit or 64bit?

[DB83]

^^ If your OS is 64bit there should be no issues with 64bit vdub2

[Dutchsteammachine]

Attached to this post are two captures with VirtualDub2

Vdub2 HuffYUV 1 was captured with FFMPEG huffyuv 8-bit YUV 4:2:2

Vdub2 FFV 1 1 was captured with FFMPEG FFV 1.3 yuv 4:2:2 8-bi slices default, CRC & Range.


I tried installing the INF file at http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-conversion/1727-virtualdub-filters-pre.html, normal HuffYUV.rar but I could not find it at Vdub2 video capture compressions after installation.

[jagabo]

When using AVI it's up to you to keep track of whether a video is interlaced or progressive and set up any downstream software accordingly. DV is somewhat of an exception as most programs that deal with DV know how to query the DV stream.

Theoretically, the ODML2 extension allows for interlace flagging but few programs set it when creating AVI files, and few programs read it when importing AVI files.

[Dutchsteammachine]

When using AVI it's up to you to keep track of whether a video is interlaced or progressive and set up any downstream software accordingly. DV is somewhat of an exception as most programs that deal with DV know how to query the DV stream.

Theoretically, the ODML2 extension allows for interlace flagging but few programs set it when creating AVI files, and few programs read it when importing AVI files.

So should I use an other container with Vdub2, or there is no way to save with the right flag?

I did some tests with Vdub 1.9 with original huffyuv and those files showed up as Progressive too.


Is there I away I can tell Hybrid to export with any interlace flag set to true? and which container.

I usually export to Apple ProRes (For archiving) and h264 (For sharing). In some cases I may want to view or share a file that I dont have to deinterlace with a filter first, but can rely on the video viewing software tp automatically detect and apply its own de interlacing. Then the files are smaller for example.

If not then I guess I always need to deinterlace before sharing or editing so the person on the receiving end doesn't see lines.

[Sharc]

Both your uploaded .avi are interlaced Top Field First and can be encoded as interlaced with Hybrid, provided you apply the correct settings in Hybrid as said before (Frames tab: tick interlaced encoding and untick Force bff.)
(The quality of the captures suffers from some basic problems though, like flagging (bent picture at the top) due to the absence of a (line) TBC, but that's a different story).

Attached just a quick shot (nothing optimized) to show that Hybrid will enocde interlaced. A TV will deinterlace it properly.

[Dutchsteammachine]

Both your uploaded .avi are interlaced Top Field First and can be encoded as interlaced with Hybrid, provided you apply the correct settings in Hybrid as said before (Frames tab: tick interlaced encoding and untick Force bff.)
(The quality of the captures suffers from some basic problems though, like flagging (bent picture at the top) due to the absence of a (line) TBC, but that's a different story).

Attached just a quick shot (nothing optimized) to show that Hybrid will enocde interlaced. A TV will deinterlace it properly.

Thank you very much, that is exactly what I wanted to know/accomplish.

[Skiller]

Which container do you recommend?

For capturing, AVI of course.

As long as you know the video is interlaced and know the field parity, it does not matter at all what MediaInfo or any other software report about the file's interlacing.

[daygecko]

I've also been working on capturing interlaced video and there's something I can't figure out. How do look at the actual interlaced video to tell that it's interlaced? I haven't found any player that will just alternate the lines displayed, or anything like that. The assumption seems to be that you definitely always want to deinterlace when viewing


And how do you even capture interlaced with Virtual Dub 2? I tried yesterday and everything came out as 29.97 fps. The program wouldn't even let me set 59.94

[jagabo]

VirtualDub2 shows interlaced video with comb artifacts. Since you already have it you might as well use it. You will see comb artifacts whenever there is motion in the input pane.

Interlaced NTSC video _is_ 29.97 frames per second. Each frame consists of two fields (a field is every other scan line of the frame). The fields are meant to be viewed separately and sequentially -- hence 59.94 fields per second.

[lollo]

How do look at the actual interlaced video to tell that it's interlaced?

https://web.archive.org/web/20101126080336fw_/http://neuron2.net/faq.html#analysis

[dellsam34]

Attached to this post are two captures with VirtualDub2

Vdub2 HuffYUV 1 was captured with FFMPEG huffyuv 8-bit YUV 4:2:2

Vdub2 FFV 1 1 was captured with FFMPEG FFV 1.3 yuv 4:2:2 8-bi slices default, CRC & Range.

Your HuffYUV sample is still FFV according to AvPmod, Also the audio should be 48Khz not 44.1Khz, You have flagging on top of the frame which requires a line TBC, also there is a flickering pink band at the same area that the line TBC may or may not remove, only frame TBC is capable of removing it, Try a Panasonic DVD recorder in passthrough to see if it addresses those problems, But if you crop the frame you can hide the flagging as in the bottom example (de-interlaced, cropped, resized to 1440x1080 and encoded to h.264):

[Dutchsteammachine]

Which container do you recommend?

For capturing, AVI of course.

As long as you know the video is interlaced and know the field parity, it does not matter at all what MediaInfo or any other software report about the file's interlacing.

Yes, but for when I share video files with others the flag needs to be corrected or people who aren't as tech/PC savvy will see the lines.

[Dutchsteammachine]

Attached to this post are two captures with VirtualDub2

Vdub2 HuffYUV 1 was captured with FFMPEG huffyuv 8-bit YUV 4:2:2

Vdub2 FFV 1 1 was captured with FFMPEG FFV 1.3 yuv 4:2:2 8-bi slices default, CRC & Range.

Your HuffYUV sample is still FFV according to AvPmod, Also the audio should be 48Khz not 44.1Khz, You have flagging on top of the frame which requires a line TBC, also there is a flickering pink band at the same area that the line TBC may or may not remove, only frame TBC is capable of removing it, Try a Panasonic DVD recorder in passthrough to see if it addresses those problems, But if you crop the frame you can hide the flagging as in the bottom example (de-interlaced, cropped, resized to 1440x1080 and encoded to h.264):

Will have to double check if I uploaded the right formats.

Was just a quick capture for the sake of this thread, didn't want to connect the Panasonic recorder as passthrough. Can do a new more proper capture.

Why 48Khz audio rec instead of 44Khz? Doubt freq response of analog media goes beyond 20Khz. 44Khz gives freq response up to 22Khz.

My capture card is a hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1700 or 1200. Not sure if there are better chipsets out there. I prefer something with PCI-E but old PCI or AGP is possible.

[dellsam34]

Audio for video has always been and still is 48Khz, 44.1Khz is red book standard for audio CD's not video.

[Cornucopia]

Tell that to millions of DV cam users out there who recorded at 44.1kHz (or -gasp!- 32kHz). It has been an option on many consumer gear. Yes, even though the "standard" and recommended rate is 48kHz.
Or VideoCD/SVCD, where it was the ONLY option.

Scott