What device I need ripping V8 tape on computer?

[Sharc]

Let me just wish you good luck with piling up HW and SW but skipping the basics

[DB83]

1) Trying to improve the quality of the video on the DVD ripped by the companies
2) Searching a workable Sony hi8 camcorder online

As you have been told many times, if you want help or comments for 1) upload an untouched .vob. If you can't just trim it without preprocessing, zip it and upload the .zip to some filehoster. Providing processed material like the one of your posts #50 and #54 which has obviously been post-processed by one of your tools with all flaws one can imagine doesn't make much sense.

What puzzles me is the express reluctance of the OP to comply with a simple request. Of course he does not make it easy for himself with his choice of OS (but he has stated elsewhere that he does also have Windows. He did not go in to detail but maybe that is in a VM)


But back to Linux for just a moment. No more requests for a complete vob. But looking though Linux Video Tools on this site I see that avidemux will work under that. So load the vob and wait for indexing to complete. Mark out a 5-10 minute section with the A and B markers ensuring that A is placed on an I-frame (you see the indication on-screen). Save that section with 'Copy' and format as mpeg2 program stream as an .mpg. Upload as an attachment.


But even if you secure a Hi8 camera for the best quality that your tapes will provide you will still have the Linux issue. The only program I found that remotely will capture is OBS Studio and no one on here would even suggest that you use it. I have no idea if you could use Windows capture tools inside a VM.


So VHS to DVD and distribution video from that may be the best approach. And we are prepared to waste our time to solve the issues you have with your choice of tools. But if you want to carry on in your own way and keep rolling dice hoping things work out then you are on your own.


Oh and by the way. 720p or 2K from such a source is pushing it. Software upscaling to 4K is sheer madness.

[satimis]

- snip -

What puzzles me is the express reluctance of the OP to comply with a simple request. Of course he does not make it easy for himself with his choice of OS (but he has stated elsewhere that he does also have Windows. He did not go in to detail but maybe that is in a VM)

- snip -

Hi,

Sorry for returning you a late reply. I can't trim the original .vob on avidemux, because I can't find the lower part of avidemux screen to work (please see attached screenshot). Neither I can resize its screen. I couldn't find a solution through online searching.

Now I use ffmpeg to trim a section of the original .vob on time base as follows;
$ ffmpeg -i VTS_01_4.VOB -t 00:03:00 output.vob VTS_01_4_3min.VOB

00:03:00 = 3 min (from the beginning of the video)
VTS_01_4_3min.VOB - file size 184.5 MB

The trimmed video is terrible playing on a 4K display

Now I upload the trimmed VTS_01_4_3min.VOB to this forum.

All my Windows 10 home and Pro are running as VMs of Oracle VirtualBox. Except only one Windows 10 home is running on a 250G SSD, bare metal. It is solely for for photos and photo negatives scanning on Epson flatbed scanner. I won't install other software on it.

Regards

[Sharc]

Your ffmpeg commandline re-encoded the video at a very low bitrate, hence the horrible blocks.

Try again with somethin like

ffmpeg.exe -i VTS_01_4.VOB -t 00:03:00 -c copy VTS_01_4_3min.VOB

[satimis]

Your ffmpeg commandline re-encoded the video at a very low bitrate, hence the horrible blocks.

Try again with somethin like

ffmpeg.exe -i VTS_01_4.VOB -t 00:03:00 -c copy VTS_01_4_3min.VOB

Hi,

Thanks for your advice.

Tried again and performed following test;

$ ffmpeg -i VTS_01_4.VOB -t 00:03:00 -c copy VTS_01_4_3min_01.VOB

File size - VTS_01_4_3min_01.VOB 103.6MB

Regards

[DB83]

It looks to me that you have your text/font size much too large (maybe to do with that 4K monitor)


But that vob is a mess. Whether that is cause by ffmpeg or not the bitrate is reported much too low. This appears to be that the 3 min video is being treated as a 20 min one in the two players I tested. So there is severe pixilation.


Even avidemux thinks the video runs for 20 mins. That is probably the run length of the complete vob.


As it stands, it is quite unusable. I do not mind wasting my time but I have to have proper footage to start with. And this is not proper.


So if you can not achieve a proper trim then it's back to the full vob.

[satimis]

It looks to me that you have your text/font size much too large (maybe to do with that 4K monitor)

Whether you meant on Settings -> not to select Large Font?

But that vob is a mess. Whether that is cause by ffmpeg or not the bitrate is reported much too low. This appears to be that the 3 min video is being treated as a 20 min one in the two players I tested. So there is severe pixilation.

Pls see my reply to Sharc on post #65 above

Regards

[Sharc]

@satimis, post #65.
Very good. That's what we wanted.

The video is PAL 720x576i 25fps (=interlaced video at 25 frames per second = 50 fields per second, top field first). So the shop did it technically correct. That's important to know.
Now you may get comments from other posters here how to improve it. But keep in mind it is a VHS source, and hence the resolution is limited by the VHS technology. Just upscaling does not improve it. Don't expect blu-ray quality from a VHS source.

So nothing is basically wrong with the .vob as far as I see it.

[DB83]

Ok. Obviously, Sharc replied while I was composing my reply and researching the display issue.


The new sample fixes the playback and also fixes another issue whereas the first sample was incorrectly reported as progressive.


I have to go out shortly but I will later see if it is possible to use your choice of tools with the raw footage.

[satimis]

- snip -

But keep in mind it is a VHS source, and hence the resolution is limited by the VHS technology. Just upscaling does not improve it. Don't expect blu-ray quality from a VHS source.

You're right.

To super scale HD Videos on VHS/V8 tapes to 4K is not a good solution. The video can be 4K in resolution but the total file size increased dramatically. I think this solution is good for low quality photos.

I can't use DaVinci Resolve 17 here because the fonts on its window are too small, almost unable to read. I have asked the DaVinci Resolve Forum on blackmagic.com for help but without a reply. The only solution left to me is to reduce the resolution of my 32" 4K Dell Display to 1920x1080. But this is not a good solution.

I have performed following tests on Ubuntu Terminal, running ffmpeg (first I trimmed a 2-min section of the original .vob file for this test)
1)
$ ffmpeg -i VTS_01_4.VOB -t 00:02:00 VTS_01_4_2min.VOB

00:02:00 = 2 min
File Size - VTS_01_4_2min.VOB 19.0MB

2)
To upscale the video to 4k:
$ ffmpeg -i VTS_01_4_2min.VOB -vf scale=3840x2560:flags=lanczos -c:v libx264 -preset slow -crf 21 VTS_01_4_2min_compress_4k.VOB

File Size - VTS_01_4_2min_compress_4k.VOB 290.9MB

There is not much improvement on the quality of the video but its file size jumps up to 290.9MB because of the increase of frames.

Edit
===
If I can get a hi8 camcorder ripping video on V8 tapes direct to PC, would the quality of video be improved?

Regards

[Sharc]

Edit
===
If I can get a hi8 camcorder ripping video on V8 tapes direct to PC, would the quality of video be improved?

Yes, if done correctly and your V8 tapes are not damaged.
The V8 tapes are your original source. Transfering these to VHS introduced some loss. Transfering the VHS to DVD (.vob) introduced even more loss. So yes, if your V8 tapes are in good working condition you should start from there, but you would need a player (camcorder) for V8. Still, don't expect wonders. V8 also has its limitations, but you would skip intermediate steps (VHS, DVD conversions) which degrade the video unnecessarily.

[Richard_G]

Why are you upscaling? The bigger the display and resolution, the more obvious the low quality of the original will be, all you are doing is making the file sizes bigger. It's like looking at a digital photo on your computer. If you look at it in a small window, it can look fine, increase the window size or zoom in and you will see every little artefact, out of focus, etc.

Those two files are horrible, they don't have any quality at all. The first one is bad and looks to have been encoded at a ridiculously low bitrate, look at the blocking in the sky for instance. The upscaled one looks even worse, as well as blocking there's interlacing artefacts on every vertical surface.

If the conversion to DVD was done properly, which Sharc says it was, then that is the best you will get. Display it on a 14" monitor and it will look great, display it on a huge monitor and it will look terrible. You cannot put quality back in that wasn't there in the first place and your original footage was at 720x576, the more you blow it up the worse it will look.

[Sharc]

@satimis
The VTS_01_4_2min.VOB of post #70 is CRAP again; much too low bitrate and encoded as progressive. Same flaw as before in post #63. I don't understand how this comes again after you have succeeded to eventually provide a reasonable sample in post #65.
And you can really stop all the upscaling exercises. If one's pocket is empty one won't get something into it by just enlarging the pocket.

[satimis]

@satimis
The VTS_01_4_2min.VOB of post #70 is CRAP again; much too low bitrate and encoded as progressive. Same flaw as before in post #63. I don't understand how this comes again after you have succeeded to eventually provide a reasonable sample in post #65.
And you can really stop all the upscaling exercises. If one's pocket is empty one won't get something into it by just enlarging the pocket.

Yes, I already stop all upscaling process. I'm now searching for other solutions.

[satimis]

Edit
===
If I can get a hi8 camcorder ripping video on V8 tapes direct to PC, would the quality of video be improved?

Yes, if done correctly and your V8 tapes are not damaged.
The V8 tapes are your original source. Transfering these to VHS introduced some loss. Transfering the VHS to DVD (.vob) introduced even more loss. So yes, if your V8 tapes are in good working condition you should start from there, but you would need a player (camcorder) for V8. Still, don't expect wonders. V8 also has its limitations, but you would skip intermediate steps (VHS, DVD conversions) which degrade the video unnecessarily.

The quality of my V8 tapes is my biggest problem. I have no device to check it. On visual inspection all my V8 tapes look without problem, no moldy. I can rotate them with a screw driver. But I have no idea of the other side of all my V8 tapes.

It is only a gambling purchasing an old hi8 camcorder. I'm willing to take this risk if I can find a good quality old hi8 camcorder.

Regards

[satimis]

@satimis
The VTS_01_4_2min.VOB of post #70 is CRAP again; much too low bitrate and encoded as progressive. Same flaw as before in post #63. I don't understand how this comes again after you have succeeded to eventually provide a reasonable sample in post #65.
And you can really stop all the upscaling exercises. If one's pocket is empty one won't get something into it by just enlarging the pocket.

Ah I missed adding -c copy on the command line.

It is only a test.

Tried again

$ ffmpeg -i VTS_01_4.VOB -t 00:02:00 -c copy VTS_01_4_2min.VOB
Warning:

[svcd @ 0x55e2eae45480] VBV buffer size not set, using default size of 230KB
If you want the mpeg file to be compliant to some specification
Like DVD, VCD or others, make sure you set the correct buffer size
Output #0, svcd, to 'VTS_01_4_2min.VOB':
  Metadata:
    encoder         : Lavf58.29.100
    Stream #0:0: Video: mpeg2video (Main), yuv420p(tv, bt470bg, top first), 720x576 [SAR 16:15 DAR 4:3], q=2-31, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 90k tbn, 25 tbc
    Stream #0:1: Audio: ac3, 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 256 kb/s
Stream mapping:
  Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (copy)
  Stream #0:1 -> #0:1 (copy)
Press [q] to stop, [?] for help
....

I have already stopped all upscaling test

[satimis]

Hi DB83,

Further to my posting #63 above

I performed following steps:-

1) Delete Windows 10 home VM
2) Clone another new Windows 10 home VM
3) Install Avidemux 2.7.8
4) Start Avidemux as administrator

Now FULL Avidemux window displayed.

Please refer to following screenshots attached
screenshot_avidemux_1.png
screenshot_avidemux_2.png

I can't explain WHY?

[DB83]

Neither can I.


But neither can I explain why a post of mine to this topic a little earlier has not appeared here.


Essentially, Openshot, with my not-so-fast PC would take over 2 hours to process 3 mins of footage. Whereas other software would take a fraction of that time. I do not mind wasting time but not that much.


The other thing that I did mention is that your working sample was not the same as you initially uploaded here. It introduces issues that would not appear in the initial footage. In fact I guess since I heard an American voice that you, personally, did not film all of this since the operator did not exactly know what he was doing.

[Sharc]

....Ah I missed adding -c copy on the command line....

Good to know. So basically the commandline for trimming works. You need not worry about the Warnings.

[DB83]

Not wishing to totally give up, I gave Openshot another 'shot'. Whilst on paper it looks impressive and possibly my concerns are doable I am not prepared, at this stage, to put a lot of time in to it.


Firstly, the one 'fix' I found which will apply to any decent capture method. It is mentioned that you are starting with 720*576. But this will actually display as 768*576 for a 4:3 dvd. So you have to apply a scale to correct the aspect ratio. If you do not apply the scale, as in the earlier sample, the program just uses the 720 width and adds pillar-box bars to fill the rest according to the selected project and the resultant image is too thin.


The original video is interlaced. If you need to do any cropping and/or resizing it is always safer to deinterlace first. Openshot does have a deinterlace filter but I could not see any way to adjust it. And quite frankly it did not seem to work in my tests.


Encoding the video, it did accept the demuxed mpg from the vob, resulted in silly, high bitrates and still a poor result.


So I did a quick 'n dirty test using avidemux.


1. Applied deinterlacing. Yadif was selected yet I suspect there are better ones.
2. Cropped the image to remove the total 16 pixels from left and right and I also cropped 10 pixels from the bottom to remove the head-switching noise (something I can myself live with)
3. Resized the image from non-square dvd to square pixels and opted for a image of 960*720 being a fair compromise from the original ie not over-doing it. So no pillar-box bars in the original and it is the player that will add them when viewing on a wide-screen display.
4. Encoded the video in h264 with a crf of 20. The result bitrate-wise is quite close to the original dvd. But due to the lossy nature of mpeg2 real quality has been lost in the process.


The result is now uploaded for everyone to pick holes in the method


There are some issues. You will see 'ghosting' around detail which I believe can only be removed by avisynth which would also provide a better deinterlacer. There is also the lack of clarity in the interior at the end of the video which requires even more post-capture work.


What is also evident is that the shop who made this dvd has added a sound-track. This might well have caused the vhs to dvd to have been encoded a second time with even more loss of quality. Only the shop can tell you what they did and the tools they used.

[Sharc]

The result is now uploaded for everyone to pick holes in the method

Half of the temporal resolution is lost because it is single-rate deinterlaced (25 progressive frames per second) rather than bob-deinterlaced (50 progressive frames per second).
I for one prefer the original .vob from the shop which was correctly interlaced (the camera shot 25 interlaced frames per second) which it will play smoother on a TV with a decent bob-deinterlacer and upscaler, as TVs do actually provide these days.
I see the benfit of deinterlacing and square pixel conversion for watching on a PC monitor, notebook or mobile phone, however I would suggest to bob-deinterlace (double rate) in order to keep the temporal resolution in tact.
Other suggestion is perhaps to reduce flicker and halos, but this is beyond the capabilities of the mentioned GUIs => use Avisynth.

Btw. I understood that the audio has been added/edited by the OP himself, and this is one reason why he wants to digitize his edited VHS rather than doing it all over again starting with his V8 tapes (even though these would be the better "originals").

[DB83]

'Halos' is probably a more accurate term to 'ghosting'


As you have gathered, I do not do a lot of this stuff these days. I was more active 15+ years ago when I was just creating bespoke dvds from vhs (sometimes 2nd or 3rd generation copies)

[satimis]

So I did a quick 'n dirty test using avidemux.

1. Applied deinterlacing. Yadif was selected yet I suspect there are better ones.
2. Cropped the image to remove the total 16 pixels from left and right and I also cropped 10 pixels from the bottom to remove the head-switching noise (something I can myself live with)
3. Resized the image from non-square dvd to square pixels and opted for a image of 960*720 being a fair compromise from the original ie not over-doing it. So no pillar-box bars in the original and it is the player that will add them when viewing on a wide-screen display.
4. Encoded the video in h264 with a crf of 20. The result bitrate-wise is quite close to the original dvd. But due to the lossy nature of mpeg2 real quality has been lost in the process.

The result is now uploaded for everyone to pick holes in the method

Lot of thanks for your help.

I checked the short video here on my 32" 4K Dell display on following resolutions:
1920x1200
1024x768

Refresh Rate 60Hz

On 1024x768 resolution I see a little improvement on the faces of the persons inside the house.

On 4K or 2K resolution there is almost no improvement

A side question:
How to increase the font size of Avidemux window on Windows10 ? Thanks

Regards

[satimis]

- snip -
Other suggestion is perhaps to reduce flicker and halos, but this is beyond the capabilities of the mentioned GUIs => use Avisynth.

Is "AVS Video Editor" refers to AviSynth ? I have it installed on Window 10 (64bit) VM of Oracle VirtualBox here?

If no, please advise where can I find the instruction for it installation. Thanks

Whether following YouTube video is relevant ?
How to properly install and use AviSynth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw4Q5FIiEe0

....... his V8 tapes (even though these would be the better "originals").

Yes, I'm still searching online for an old hi8 camcorder in good condition

Regards

[DB83]

Font size on Windows 10 read this:


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/change-the-size-of-text-in-windows-10-1d58...b-abcc37d99b9a


AVS Video Editor is NOT avisynth. Do not follow youtube videos. Either search here or Google. The avisynth wiki is a good place to start.

[Sharc]

If no, please advise where can I find the instruction for it installation. Thanks

See here (post#42), and be prepared for a learning curve.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403343-How-to-fix-blurry-video-on-Avidemux/page2#post2633672

[DB83]

^^ A perfect circle.


The OP forgets his own topics

[satimis]

Hi all,

I'll go back to my previous posting "How to fix blurry video on Avidemux"
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403343-How-to-fix-blurry-video-on-Avidemux

and continue on jagabo's advice on his posting #36
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403343-How-to-fix-blurry-video-on-Avidemux/page2#post2633648