But these guys want to solve the problem with cheap budget. And Let's don1t forget, that you always must buy 2 cameras/camcorders to make different angle shots. Two device is the minimum. They had to sped some thousand dollars to compete with the ZEISS lens system of the AX700. If you want to buy lenses for still cameras, you must spend 2X 3X more money to achieve the top consumer model camcorsers lenses.
Moreover AX 700 is not broadcast camcorder, only because it is not provided an upper handle which contain the XLR audio box of its expensive brothers (like the Sony PXW-Z90 ).
But you can buy additional audio system for AX700 with XLR audio box.
See: https://youtu.be/gPziwbitbu4
And with Cam Link 4K, you can really shot lossless quality.
About weight: Until these guys achieve the tolerable quality lenses , the holder, the external Audio etc... the weigth of their stuff can reach 2-3 Kg )))
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Last edited by Truthler; 10th Oct 2021 at 03:19.
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You can't build a good comparable Still camera set under 3000-3500$
Proof, watch that video: https://youtu.be/Jgk8FOF8JbM
Even the audio elecronics is a scrap in still cameras, so it is not enough to buy a Good microphone, but you need external audio recorder. A comparable quality zoom lens system const 1500 - 2000 $.
Still cameras had not enough dedicated buttons for various functions, so their usage is more difficult.
And again: Let's don't forget, that you always must buy minimum TWO machines if you deal with video.Last edited by Truthler; 10th Oct 2021 at 03:22.
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https://www.techradar.com/reviews/samsung-galaxy-s21-ultra-review
Samsung S21 phone shot 8K video, which is better than most of still cameras which usually shot only in 4K....Last edited by Truthler; 10th Oct 2021 at 03:51.
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What is your problem with 8K videos? Higher resolution means better quality and less halo effect. Halo effect is always there on every time for a some degree when you make photo or video which contains high contrast areas. (Just enough to make a magification to see it) However it is less noticeable, but if you give sharpness it became more obvious. In higher resolution 8K and 16K it is less relevant effect, because there are so many pixels, where some pixel wide halo will be not so noticeable...
Last edited by Truthler; 10th Oct 2021 at 05:35.
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and less halo effect
Halo effect is always there
The thing I was trying to say is that samsung s21 records awful looking 8k videos. My mirrorless's 4k would easily beat it
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Your cheap mirrorless can not make good quality video. Their video often did not reach an Iphone 13 level. You must buy around 6-8000 $ still camera to beat an Iphone 13 or Samsung S21 phone.
How do you feel when it comes to your mind that even good quality mobile phones shot better videos than consumer grade DSLRs and mirrorless cameras?
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Yes. I am convienced that consumer grade DSLR and mirrorless cameras can not compete with high quality Mobiles. You must have a deeper pocket (professional level still cameras) to beat mobiles!
Just an addition, Some of hackers already working on firmware modification, and the Ax700 get 4:2:2 10bit MXF recording format like their more expensive brothers, because their HW and electronics are exactly the same.Last edited by Truthler; 10th Oct 2021 at 07:48.
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I am convienced that consumer grade DSLR and mirrorless cameras can not compete with high quality Mobiles
explain to me how this looks good in any way: https://youtu.be/2tbPi2_aBms
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Phones have way more intelligent softwares than still camcorders due to their stronger more advanced computig capability.
Do you know that Samsung and Iphone already uses (yes primitive due to the HW capabilities) artificial intelligence to create enhanced quality videos and photos?
Even the macro is better with Iphone max pro
See that for proof:
https://youtu.be/jHEfdyKF4Ws
See what professional filmakers says about Iphone 13 pro max.
https://youtu.be/c3CZX-lnAIc?t=170
Yes, with addition it can record in prores too.
With expensive additional softwares it can do "on-the fly" pre- color grading and more color profiles than DSLR-s or mirrorless cameras will ever have.Last edited by Truthler; 10th Oct 2021 at 08:12.
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How interesting, you forget to react this video because of obvious reasons.
https://youtu.be/jHEfdyKF4Ws
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SMDdegrain alone? What happened to team open source? Are you limiting it now ?
Worse than what? I guarantee it won't look as bad as the mess you posted if you allow team open source to compete.
And how can you "guarantee" anything when you haven't used any of the filters properly (including Neat Video) ?
The way people use Neat and SMDegrain , just basically default settings, - in general I think Neat will produce better results and faster. But it's not the BEST results. Neat might be good for general user, but it does not produce the best results for power user. Neat is the editors choice because it produces good results, fast. Editor doesn' t have time to invest for the best results.
If you use SMDegrain + pre stabilize, pre/post filter, it will produce similar or better results in general to Neat Video. But much slower - in the order of 20-30x slower (!) for the denoising step itself. SMD will produce noticably better results on sections like the building, newspaper. Why? Because the TR for the avs+ version is not limited to 5 like neat video. For "regular" scenes with moving people/objects, that you prestabilize, the difference will not be as large (because you use a lower TR to reduce ghosting), but open source will still produce similar or better results with less ghosting. I mentioned it earlier, the temporal denoising is still a slight relative weakness for Neat V5. At large TR values, SMD approaches the quality of stacking methods, but SMD does not have the contamination issues with large peripheral borders, or as large issues with FG ghosting compared to mean/median stacking. Aligned areas or frames will still be the best with stacking methods using mean/median
Understand that I'm using "lock frame" stabilization - because it produces the best results for any denoiser using temporal denoising, including Neat Video. Each "n" +/-x frame is stabilized on that "poster" frame, the single output frame kept, the rest discarded. Repeat next frame. Ie. each current frame requires a set of stabilized frames in reference to that "poster" frame. You can automate some of the tasks with scripts and keyframes. This is why it's complicated and takes a long time. This way, you don't get peripheral border contamination for small to medium borders, even with Neat. But the question was about "best". This is the best method, even on scenes with moving objects (you can use slightly lower TR to reduce ghosting). And if you use everything properly and include complicated filter chains, it's difficult to compete with a full array of options of open source. This is the reason I don't post full video - it takes too long to get the absolute best - you'd only do it "for real" .
I didn't post the newspaper using smdegrain with large TR, but the results are clearly mean stack >> smdegrain > neat in terms of signal to noise ratio. (And there are no tricks I know with Neat Video that can improve it more)
AVISource("445-506_stab_ut_10bit422.avi")
SMDegrain (tr=20, thSAD=1200, thSADC = 800, refinemotion=true, mode=0, contrasharp=false, PreFilter=3, truemotion=true, plane=4, chroma=true)
LSFmod(strength=200, defaults="slow")
[Attachment 61226 - Click to enlarge]
If you're still interested I will post from the building, and one near the end where camera and people are moving. You will see Team OS (mainly using smdegrain) using lock frame stabilization will have more details on roof tiles, building detail, but less noise on the building, windows. For the end shot, the wall detail "bricks" and text will be more clear on wall , less noisy, and there will be less ghosting for moving people. I can post a package with the stabilized frame set, output denoised, and output oversharpened (so you can compare with your oversharpened result, or use another sharpener) . You can improve over what you posted using Neat Video, but there are no tricks that I know with NV that can improve it beyond team OS (believe me I tried, I play for both teams) - the main limitation is the (relatively worse) temporal denoising quality and the TR limit of 5 for NV - it cannot take advantage of more stabilized frames. Believe me, I've done these tests before on 100's of sources and Neat since V2
Here are some cropped previews. The smdegrain+filters version is oversharpened to roughly match. The architecture shots are enlarged 2x. Notice the how much cleaner the smdegrain+filters version is for the walls, windows. The window border (the dots) are visible. The roof tiles, etc.. . The wall text and brick outlines are more clear, less noise. The people have less ghosting
[Attachment 61216 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 61217 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 61218 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 61219 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 61220 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 61221 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 61222 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 61223 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 61224 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 61225 - Click to enlarge]
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If you include a quality stepper lens or two, Atomos recorder, good mic ... sure, do not disagree here. But the system will easily surpass the lower-end older camcorder you've mentioned.
Even the audio elecronics is a scrap in still cameras, so it is not enough to buy a Good microphone, but you need external audio recorder. A comparable quality zoom lens system const 1500 - 2000 $.
Still cameras had not enough dedicated buttons for various functions, so their usage is more difficult.
Why? You can shoot B-roll later. Or before. It really depends on the event or shoot. This isn't too different from a photo story detail shots.
Are you sure about that? It's not on the supported list: https://www.elgato.com/en/cam-link/camera-check
What kind of "still camera" are you using?
You're measurebating again. Resolution doesn't mean better quality whatsoever. The resolution of a digital device is merely the palette, not the resolve, the DR, etc. The sensor and optics determine that. Phones have crap sensors and optics. It's "good enough" to video singing Happy Birthday to junior, but it's not going to win you a video contest where technical quality is a consideration. You don't shoot TV spots or movies on phones -- but you do sometimes (often now?) shoot those on mirrorless systems.
and less halo effect. Halo effect is always there on every time for a some degree when you make photo or video which contains high contrast areas. (Just enough to make a magification to see it)Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
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Again, the touchscreen appeared on videocameras first, it appeared on still cameras later. Touch screen can not supersede dedicated buttons, because of the menu system, you must reach a lot of options after some touches, which is loss of time when you record quickly happening events.
"The built-in mic is crap in almost anything." Wrong. The built in mic of top consumer camcorders are on the same level like 500-1000 $ microphones. They are superior in indoor recording, especially for indoor VLOGs. Only noisy windy outdoor records can be a problem, when you have to use external microphones with "cat furry".
Who cares that Elgato did not test its Camlink for this camera, if it works?
I know about halo, when you were just an infant.Last edited by Truthler; 12th Oct 2021 at 01:15.
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"The built-in mic is crap in almost anything." Wrong. The built in mic of top consumer camcorders are on the same level like 500-1000 $ microphones.
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Even the ceapest camcorders from the well known brands have possibility to connect it to external 3.5mm jack microphone, and they have hotshoe connectors too, thus you can even buy a XLR audio box converter/adapter for them.
Yes, this hot-shoes also appeared firs on videocameras, similar to the turnable LCD screens and touch schreens. So the camcoirders were/are the most innovative tools, where new things appear.
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I already explained , I don't have time to upload full processed video. I explained how you can improve neat video results or any temporal denoiser such as smdegrain TR = x>1 by pre stabilizing against each reference frame. Please re-read the post that you quoted, if you don't understand, ask specific questions.
Did you want me to upload an undenoised/unprocessed but stabilized frame set used for those frames in the screenshots along with the scripts used? (frame 1083,1683 - because those are the ones you chose for earlier comparison screenshots with selur) . I can post the mean stack version too - that's the best for the architecture
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The more this troll posts, the more you realize he doesn't know what the hell he's rambling about. Everything from cameras to shooting to processing. Completely f-ing clueless from start to finish. It's like a Q-anon member for video. Most of his claims are divorced-from-reality videographical bullshit.
This clusterf'ck of a thread needs to be locked already.
Baldrick, bueller, Bueller?
At some point, you have to believe that he's just taking the piss, just screwing with people intentionally, ie being a true troll. A sad little person.Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
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