What do you do about this? Sold vcr on the bay

[lojelo5]

1st of all I wouldn't have even put this up for sale if I had any problems with this player, it's happened to me a dozen times in the last year alone purchasing vcrs from the bay, so I know how people feel when they get something like this happening to them.


I had been using this vcr for the last 6 months or so capturing videos for my YouTube channel (and this is not a advert for my channel)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB0QSh1DuWmVYszF9qllrNA

I just wasn't happy with the end results so I sold this JVC 8600 to a nice buyer, it was packed perfectly fine had no moans about that but he put a tape in straight away and it chewed it up now he wants to return it on the grounds its not working properly.

One thing that's concerned me though is the way he used the jog wheel in this video, I have never used a jog wheel with this force

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOMR3iZX49jNHI_zKTvWov3uYLFS3XKR82HhEsrBTrJzCPRbo...dQWHpEY25yZ1Vn

I know what eBay are like and they will just go with him but I have told him not to be hasty sending it back at the moment because it's a good machine and it works perfectly fine just give it a few hours to warm up.

[lordsmurf]

Hitting REW, then PLAY, without STOP in between, is how you make a JVC deck eat tapes. Don't do that.

Same for FF then PLAY, without a STOP. Don't do that.

There is zero reason to jab the PLAY button multiple times.

This next bit is crude humor, but apropos. Treat the jog wheel like the missus' nipples. If you just yank and crank, that probably won't end well for you. Be gentle.

This guy is too rough for VCRs. He's not using it, he's abusing it.

Yep, it ate his tape. But it's his own fault.

That probably should be a good deck -- when used, not abused.

[lojelo5]

This is what I thought lordsmurf, I have accepted the return but there is nothing up with the machine.

I have pointed him to this topic mate because this is probably the only way to show him he is abusing it and not using it as it should be.

What do people expect with a machine that's 20 year old.

[lojelo5]

Right I phoned eBay support today asking for help with this because I wasn't happy at all, there were no issues with this vcr when I sent it to him. It looks like he has now removed the video from google drive so no one can see it but I downloaded the video before he removed it.

So here is the video again

https://youtu.be/k1UkW3DW_RY

I have tried to talk to the buyer and asked not to be hasty in sending it back but eBay have advised me to ask for it back and leave it with them.

Removing the video doesn't really help yourself.

[lordsmurf]

I have tried to talk to this seller and asked not to be hasty in sending it back but eBay have advised me to ask for it back and leave it with them.
Removing the video doesn't really help yourself.

Huh?
Did you forget to quote the buyer?
Even then ... huh?

[lojelo5]

I have tried to talk to this seller and asked not to be hasty in sending it back but eBay have advised me to ask for it back and leave it with them.
Removing the video doesn't really help yourself.

Huh?
Did you forget to quote the buyer?
Even then ... huh?

That's me mate was annoyed with myself lol it should say the buyer

I clicked on that Google link and the video was removed so it won't help him it will benefit me it's like he's hiding what he's done wrong.

What's annoyed me so much is the way he as used the machine, like you said why would anyone press play when the tape is fast fowarding! Its common sense to use the stop button when the machine is in this motion, you wouldn't put your foot on the accelerator when you want to stop your car would you?

[dellsam34]

I don't think it's the buyer's fault, The VCR should handle any sequence of buttons operation, What's wrong with that VCR is the brake pads, They are completely worn out so when fast forwarding or rewinding and press stop the reels keep spinning spilling all the tape out then after ejecting the tape, the supply reel automatic spin on won't retract all the tape back in since it is designed to retract just the portion of the tape around the video drum.

It is a supper easy fix, remove the old pads from the supply and take up brake arms and glue new ones on from any craft store that sell this type of rubber pads, The buyer is not at fault at all, you need to fix your VCR.

[lojelo5]

@ dellsam34

Not once did I have this problem with this vcr and I used it to capture over 160 tapes, why did I have no problems! Because I used it correctly with care. I would have kept it but I needed to make room, I also told the buyer not to be too quick in sending it back but it was up to the buyer and it's on its way back.

I might put it up again for sale but I will also check the brake pads 1st and if they need replacing I will replace them. Though the buyer wasn't pressing stop to stop the tape he was pressing play to stop!

[dellsam34]

You don't have to press stop from fast forwarding or rewinding like you would on an ordinary audio cassette player, Full logic control VCR's use a mode switch to manage the mechanism operation, You may not press stop from say fast forwarding or rewinding but the VCR does it for you automatically, It's a sequence programmed in the control chip.

Yes the VCR may have worked fine for you or you may have not noticed the problem because the way you use it but it doesn't necessarily mean the buyer broke your VCR, Those brake pads can snap off at any time if the glue is perished due to age, it can even happen during shipping.

You can fix it or list "as is" describing the fault, that's the right way I see it.

[lojelo5]

I never said he broke it mate not even saying its broke, using the play to stop a tape when fast forwarding or fast rewinding is asking for problems, anyone with common sense on vcrs would know this, your telling me it's ok to put a tape into a machine that's probably not been played for sometime and use the play button to stop it is a good thing to do? In my eyes and mind its asking for trouble.

I had a similar issue with a purchase of a Panasonic AG4700 lost my rag with the seller but apologised straight away. I left it on for about 15mins or so before putting a tape in but soon as I put it in the tape stopped and jammed, I left it for another 20mins and it was working perfectly fine.The drum head had some dirt on it but I cleaned it and the machine is working perfectly fine. All you need with these machines is a bit of patience and not to be to hasty in sending a good machine back.

[lojelo5]

Bit concerned with eBay's tracking system lol

Looks like he's sending it back but I think eBay as a time machine

[dellsam34]

using the play to stop a tape when fast forwarding or fast rewinding is asking for problems, anyone with common sense on vcrs would know this, your telling me it's ok to put a tape into a machine that's probably not been played for sometime and use the play button to stop it is a good thing to do? In my eyes and mind its asking for trouble.

Again as I explained above, Pressing stop from fast forward or rewind to go to play is unnecessary for the reason I explained, The VCR control circuit will eventually do exactly the following sequence: Move the cam from FF/FR position to neutral position -> mode switch confirmed the position -yes -> engage brakes -> sense the reel spindles speed -ok -> move the cam to playback position -> mode switch confirmed position - yes -> engage pinch roller .... you get the picture.

If the VCR is an old mechanical beast than yes, Not that one. I watched the buyer's video and as an experienced in repairing these machines he has done nothing wrong or different from an average person would use their VCR's, They are designed to be idiot proof within their expected lifetime not after 30 or 40 years later when it starts to fall apart, Sorry if this sounds harsh to you but that's just the reality.

[lojelo5]

I understand it all dellsam34 clearly. Like you have said this could have happened in transport, he was very happy with the packaging so I am happy with that also. It's annoyed me so much that soon as I sell it, it shows signs of being faulty! you can see why I am so annoyed. I was also annoyed how he used it that's my opinion it was my machine, if it got damaged in transport then I will leave that up to eBay to consider the outcome because when I sent it the item was working perfectly fine but upon delivery and testing the item is faulty! The buyer found it to be faulty on arrival so the buyer as done the right thing in sending it back, I have done exactly the same thing myself with 3 out of 5 players I have purchased in the last 2 months which have also been faulty but at least mine was working when I sent it.

[dellsam34]

If your shipping service offers insurance buy it, It's worth it, I sometimes sell VCR's too and always purchase the insurance just in case, though it covers only physical damage but any dint, pushed corner, or a cut on the box could proof your case.

[lojelo5]

I did pay for insurance when I sent it which covered the full amount of what the buyer paid for it, I have left it with eBay to sort out the return label let's hope they have it insured as well.

It's not about trying to get money at all mate it's about the machine ending up faulty soon as someone else as it so something went wrong somewhere, the item was also tracked with the courier and not once was the tracking updated when it was entered into my eBay account.

[aedipuss]

i'd be checking the serial number when it gets back to match what was sent. lot's of slimy people abuse ebay...

[lojelo5]

i'd be checking the serial number when it gets back to match what was sent. lot's of slimy people abuse ebay...

Don't worry about that I took pictures and they were up on eBay as well, but who to say anyone can't remove the stickers and replace them on another machine!

Pics taken before I sent the item, we will see if they are the sames when it comes back, but I have a feeling I can trust this buyer we might just be unlucky to useless courier services (DHL)

[lordsmurf]

You don't have to press stop from fast forwarding or rewinding like you would

This is not correct.

You need to open up multiple VCRs, to see this for yourself, and watch what happens to the tape.

It's a matter of proper braking. When a tape is stopped, slack is present. No brake is ever on-a-dime, some % of slack is always present. After full stop, then PLAY, the slack is allowed to slowly un-slack itself. Inertia from REW>PLAY or FF>PLAY doesn't allow careful un-slack, and the tape can be "eaten" as a result. It fully depends on how much slack, and where it has "slacked up" along the tape path.

It really is the same as putting car into reverse after having driven forward without a complete stop. Sure, sometimes it works, but it's always reckless and needlessly risky or damaging.

Even my mom knew this 40 years ago, and she couldn't set the clock.

Again as I explained above, Pressing stop from fast forward or rewind to go to play is unnecessary.

Again, no.

I've known about this for 30+ years now. I'm sure some technical manual gives theory on why it shouldn't happen, but practical application and usage says otherwise. Any good videographer knows not to abuse his equipment this way.

It is a supper easy fix, remove the old pads from the supply and take up brake arms and glue new ones on from any craft store that sell this type of rubber pads, The buyer is not at fault at all, you need to fix your VCR.

No.
Yes and no.

I see zero evidence that this deck has brake pad issues. What I see is a hamfisted numbnuts banging buttons and jerking dials.

That may be solid advice for a deck where no such abuse happened.

BTW, when you abuse buttons like that, the tiny plastics inside the deck break. The jog dial will not hold up to that for long. The buttons are equally not suited for that, and can in fact strip the actual board buttons beneath the outer plastic cover (the "button" you see on the outside). I see far too many inoperable board buttons these days. Once the soldered-on-board buttons are damaged, you may be screwed, if no remote-only use. But if the remote eye also goes out, also somewhat common, you have a paperweight.

[dellsam34]

I have to disagree Lordsmurf, I worked on that particulate VCR numerous times and everything I said above is right on the money, I knew what's wrong with that VCR from the very few seconds the buyer demonstrate it before he even ejected the tape.

Yes I agree the user was little harsh on the buttons but that affects only the face plate buttons, not the mechanism, The processor will still execute the commends on its pace no matter how fast were received, ffw+play = ffw-stop-brake-play. It's in the SM just look it up.

[lordsmurf]

I knew what's wrong with that VCR from the very few seconds the buyer demonstrate it before he even ejected the tape.

How? Explain this, in detail.

Yes I agree the user was little harsh on the buttons but that affects only the face plate buttons, not the mechanism,

The force passes from external button to internal button. It just does.

It's in the SM just look it up.

I don't care. Again, theory vs. practical application. Book says "blah blah blah" but in reality it's BS.
Inertia. Science.
There is a temporal pause when STOP is injected as the intermediary step.

[dellsam34]

How? Explain this, in detail.

I can't explain years of experience.

The force passes from external button to internal button. It just does.

No, Not even remotely close, Control commends pass thru the ribbon cable from the front panel to the control processor. Kind of like new cars CAN BUS that controls your door lock, window motor, no matter how hard you press the switch, it does its thing on its pace.

I don't care. Again, theory vs. practical application. Book says "blah blah blah" but in reality it's BS.
Inertia. Science.

I have both, theory and experience.

[lordsmurf]

Control commends pass thru the ribbon cable from the front panel to the control processor. Kind of like new cars CAN BUS that controls your door lock, window motor, no matter how hard you press the switch, it does its thing on its pace.

On buttons with ribbons, sure. Noting that wear can still happen, plastics can still break, even on ribbon connection buttons.
But on buttons that have plastic connectors to the actual on-board buttons, no.

experience.

Video became my serious hobby in 1992, became my accidental career in 2000s.

[dellsam34]

Video became my serious hobby in 1992, became my accidental career in 2000s.

I don't have much experience in video itself as an art or video production, I just like tinkering with electromechanical machines, It was my passion before I even acquired a mechanical engineering degree, I just appreciate the marvels of such machines from the 80's and 90's, Not so much now, it's all codes and finger touching.

[lordsmurf]

I just appreciate the marvels of such machines from the 80's and 90's,

I'm more in awe of the signal. It's controlled chaos.

Like a messy PB&J sandwich, it leaks out all over the place, and we have to clean it up.
Or like an unruly puppy or kitty, we have to make it behave.

The format is so hackish, shortcut here, shortcut there. I'm amazed it works at all. All those shortcuts are responsible for all the problems we face.

[lojelo5]

Just an update, the case with eBay is now closed.

I got what I needed and I hope the buyer did too, no disrespect to the buyer but they should learn what they did wrong, no matter if the item was showing any faults. The player is packed away for now until I get time to have a proper look and see if I can replicate any of the faults shown above, if so I will get them fixed and give the player away to a friend.

Thanks for everyone's input on this it's been much appreciated.