Good day, all - THIS IS MY FIRST POST - need direction to proper forum :-)

[lingyi]

Uploaders know because the video isn't the same size, quality and format that was uploaded. There are tweaks to minimize the conversion, but it's never the original that's streamed. AFAIK, Vimeo and all streaming sites are the same.

Also, it's been cited and shown that channels with a large subscriber base gets better quality compression and greater bandwidth, allowing higher bitrate videos to be streamed. Makes absolute sense since more subscribers means more ad revenue for YouTube.

Don't get caught up in streaming quality and techniques until you've decided and resolved what/how you're planning to handle your project.

[TDinTX]

What I really want to know is what company manufactures the servers that YouTube uses?
How are the AVI files I upload stored on these servers?
Are the original AVI file I uploaded converted to MP4 then stored on the YouTube server. or is the uploaded AVI file stored without any conversions?

[lingyi]

What I really want to know is what company manufactures the servers that YouTube uses?
How are the AVI files I upload stored on these servers?
Are the original AVI file I uploaded converted to MP4 then stored on the YouTube server. or is the uploaded AVI file stored without any conversions?

Only Google knows for sure. It's either companies that consumers won't recognize or custom built by Google.

Read YouTube/Google's Terms of Service
https://www.youtube.com/static?template=terms
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/55770
https://policies.google.com/technologies/retention

YouTube saves the original uploaded files and can be downloaded with your Google Takeout account. However, beware as there are limits on how many downloads you can do per day/week and how much data you can download. Also, unlike paid cloud services, there's no guarantee all your original videos will be saved forever.

Asking questions is fine, but a few minutes of searching would have given you these answers yourself.\

Also, we're straying away from you original question. May be time to start a new thread with these types of questions. Even better, use the search on this forum as they've all been answered here before.

In addition, don't ignore your original post and please answer some of the questions like what types of DVDs you have and how you're planning to share the contents. It seems you're looking at YouTube, but at least say that's your plan instead of asking questions in this thread that are irrelevant. I strayed off-track with my discussion about fixing formatted drives and SpinRite, but they were answers to a question posted, not new questions. And more importantly, I'm not the OP, you are.

I try my best not to be the netiquette nanny, and sometimes stray off myself when I start a thread, but I picture forums like attending a party. If you start a general conversation with everyone there and drift off to speak to one or two people in a corner about something unrelated to the topic(s) started in the main group , you soon won't be invited to any more parties.

Keep on topic, as you've got good answers from some highly respected and trusted members here, but there's a lot more that haven't chimed in. Don't make them ignore you by heading off to a corner.

[lingyi]

A few other things:

1) If you think I'm just being a fussy Netiquette Nanny, you've fallen short in at three of the https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/72386-Forum-rules-Acceptable-Use-Policy-(AUP)? that you agreed to when you joined:

"Please try to do some basic research before posting.
Most fundamental questions are answered on the How To's on this site.

Use the Forum search feature.
Using the search can yield rich rewards as most questions have already been previously answered.

Do not post the same topic on several forums.
Please do not cross post, once is enough.

Please try not to "bump" your topic.
Replying to your own topic to get it to the top is annoying. Try to have some patience, this is a bulletin board, not IRC. It may take some time (e.g., one or two days) before someone can answer your query or question.

Do not hijack topics.
Please try to stick to the author's first post in each topic, if you want to discuss something else, create a new topic.

Try to choose a subject that describes your topic.
Please do not use topic subjects like Help me!!! or Problems."

2) If you don't understand or agree with the opinions/facts I posted in my walls of text posts, ask and I or others will try to clarify/confirm/or refute. Believe me, when I'm wrong, which happens more than I care to admit, I'm usually called out on it fairly quickly and learn from the correction.

3) My Search-fu (trademark pending ) is strong because I never assume I'm the only person to wonder about something. As I stated, a few minutes searching on your YouTube questions gave links/answers to what I already suspected or knew.

Edit: Another great thing about searching yourself, you don't just get the opinions of a handful of posters on a specific forum posting about that they think they know, you get the opinions of dozens, hundreds or thousands of others who write about that they think they know! And sometimes if you're lucky, you get answers directly from those who actually do know. Like the YouTube and Google links I gave. Self

[ProWo]

To make a long story short - I want to place every DVD onto 8+TB hard drives "at the absolute best quality possible" - and I could care less how much disk space it takes up, TB drives are cheap!
So my question is: what forum will I find folks that are knowledgeable of converting a DVD to something like MP4 or? file(s) for whatever the future brings?

You can mux you DVD video (mpeg2video) directly into a mp4 container, without encoding or quality loss.
You can easily test this with my newest program version below (beta) in which i implemented the DVD rip. Point to the desired VTS and the complete movie will be ripped and imported into my program. Then select Multiplex, the ripped video file is already loaded, select the same file as audio source and subtitle source (if available), select mp4 as container and click on Multiplex. Done.
(Read the HowTo first).
https://files.videohelp.com/u/292773/clever_ffmpeg_gui_newest_beta.7z

[lordsmurf]

STOP. Both the OP and especially ProWo.

Concur.

From the first reply, this thread is a train-wreck of random information and misinformation.

How did it go from ripping DVDs to Youtube servers?

To make a long story short - I want to place every DVD onto 8+TB hard drives "at the absolute best quality possible" - and I could care less how much disk space it takes up, TB drives are cheap!

The best quality is ISO files. That is a 100% replica of the disc, not a conversion.

(Note that you can restore some DVDs to better quality, and encode/save to another format. But that format can induce quality loss, so be careful.)

eliminate the VOB structure by converting to an MPEG-2.

Nothing is "converted". Terms can matter.
Extract, yes.
Convert, no. Convert has double-meaning of encode/reencode.

[ProWo]

STOP. Both the OP and especially ProWo.

Concur.

Thanks a lot.

The best quality is ISO files. That is a 100% replica of the disc, not a conversion.

You really think that an iso image provides better quality than the copied VIDEO_TS folder, as I recommended in the first reply?

[lordsmurf]

You really think that an iso image provides better quality than the copied VIDEO_TS folder, as I recommended in the first reply?

Copying VIDEO_TS can really screw up the DVD structure. You don't seem to realize that you're moving from a UDF structure to NTFS/FATs/HFS/etc. That has unforeseen issues.

[johnmeyer]

You really think that an iso image provides better quality than the copied VIDEO_TS folder, as I recommended in the first reply?

Copying VIDEO_TS can really screw up the DVD structure. You don't seem to realize that you're moving from a UDF structure to NTFS/FATs/HFS/etc. That has unforeseen issues.

That simply is not true. ProWo's original reply to the OP in post #2 is 100% correct, and is still the easiest, fastest, and best way for the OP to get what he wants. I know it works because all of my home videos that I transferred to DVD twenty years ago are now backed up on hard drive. I did that backup by simply copying each DVD's VIDEO_TS folder to my backup hard drives.

You are confusing issues of how video and data DVDs gets burned, with how a VIDEO_TS folder gets read.

When you create a video DVD, as opposed to a data DVD, the file structures of those two different types of discs are indeed different, as you correctly point out. However, if you put either type of DVD into a computer DVD drive (as opposed to a dedicated set-top DVD video player), if both of them contain a VIDEO_TS folder which contains a bunch of VOB & IFO files, you can drop that folder onto a media player, and you will get the DVD menus and everything will play. It will also play if the VIDEO_TS folder is on a hard drive, and you do the same thing.

[edit]Another way to understand why this doesn't matter is to think about all the different file systems in the computer world and how, despite all the differences, once something is stored in one file system, it can be simply copied and used on another file system. Thus, if you store a Word document on a Mac O/S, you can simply copy that to an NTFS formatted drive by dragging and dropping. The Word document is perfectly readable once transferred to the NTFS drive. Same thing goes for any other file you choose to talk about, from video, to photos, to spreadsheets, to databases.

[jan5678]

@TDinTX

You want best possible quality and a single file for streaming purpose, why are you so keen about reencoding but want the best qualty? That simply wouldn't be possilble.
Best solution sofar (and that is said before in this thread) is to use makemkv and make a single mkv file without any quality loss. that is the best you can get from a dvd source imho.
Convert it to any other format gives quality loss, convert to let say mp4 shouldn't be a problem. The source isn't getting any better if you are reencoding..

[Cornucopia]

ISO is better than VIDEO_TS folder structure, in that:
1. It includes EVERYTHING (AUDIO_TS, ROM folders, root files...)
2. It keeps everything in same byte sequence - (good for file restoration if necessary)
3. It keeps everything together in one file, much like a zip archive.

ISO is worse than VIDEO_TS folder structure, in that:
1. You have to mount it, or have an app that natively recognizes it unmounted.

Otherwise, they SHOULD be the same.

Both are better than MakeMKV mkv versions, in that with the former you get all the features (menus, chapters, extras, audio+sub tracks, navigation,...) and with the latter you only get the main clip (with or without all audio/subs, chapters), plus you *MAY* occasionally have issues at the VOB join points.
If you ONLY want the main clip, MakeMKV is often sufficient, and is easy to work with.

Scott

[lordsmurf]

You really think that an iso image provides better quality than the copied VIDEO_TS folder, as I recommended in the first reply?

Copying VIDEO_TS can really screw up the DVD structure. You don't seem to realize that you're moving from a UDF structure to NTFS/FATs/HFS/etc. That has unforeseen issues.

That simply is not true.

You need to re-review how DVD byte structure is done. I can only guess you've never dealt with a damaged DVD-Video folderset that needed recovery.

Video quality will be the same either way.
But I'm referring to disc+file integrity here. Quality doesn't matter if it doesn't work/play correctly.

VOB join points can also be an issue, when it comes to dual-layer. Sometimes a disc>HDD copy misinterprets the layer break, as that's NOT a proper extraction. It must be ripped as folderset, not merely copied. And since ripping, why not just rip to ISO? A single tidy file?

Cornucopia is 100% correct as well. I can only guess that he's seen what I've seen, in the past 20 years.

[lingyi]

Good to see more the regulars coming here. Going to be even more interesting and informative!

Rather than write another wall of text, I'll write a wall of posts starting with the latest and work my way up!

A better analogy for .ISO than .zip, which implies compression and technically isn't a container like .ISO, is keeping with my container/cake analogy, an .ISO is a large carrying box in which you can put your boxes (.VOB containers) and utensils (.ifo, .bup) in. The utensils aren't necessary, but help serve the cake/videos.

From What is DVD?

". BUP = Backup files of the IFO files.

. IFO = The IFO files includes information such as chapters, subtitle tracks and audio tracks.

. VOB = The VOB files contains the actual video,audio,subtitles and menus."

As stated, a Video DVD .ISO is nice in that everything is keep in one place (though you could mess it up by not keeping to the proper Video DVD structure and specs) and at least 7Zip can extract the contents without mounting. So you can always extract the .VOBs directly from an .ISO if you want.

.VOBs are more than just containers for Mpeg-1/Mpeg-2 videos, as stated above, they also can contain multiple audio tracks, subtitles, and copy protection, pointed to by the .IFO. AFAIK, when you remux a .VOB to .MPG/MPEG you only have one video and one audio track.

.VOBs are also limited to 1GB max, typically ~30 minutes each on a Video DVD so most movies and one hour TVs shows must be split over multiple .VOBs. When you just remux the .VOBs, there may be errors, particularly in the audio because you're not using the .IFO to define how the .VOBs should be combined.

Note that MakeMKV won't allow you to convert the .VOBs directly, you need the .IFO or other files that properly define how the individual .VOBs or .TS (for Blu-Ray) file should be confined.

@johnmeyer and ProWo, the fact that you both describe just extracting the VIDEO_TS and .VOBs directly, (johnmeyer specifically mentioned doing this with his home videos) points to your not working with commercial copyprotected discs, which requires decryption/removal of the copy protection before the .VOBs are directly accessible. You can usually copy the VIDEO_TS folder of a commercial directly to your hard drive, but the .VOBs will be unplayable because of the copy protection.

In addition, a home video .VOB usually only has one audio track and that's it. No extras. Some of which are purposely put there by the studios to thwart simply remuxing the .VOBs to mpeg or another container.

@ProWo, as I stated before, please stop just posting what works for you and read and thoroughly digest what others are posting. You can ignore my layman's knowledge, but between some of the posters here, there are multiple decades of experience in various aspects video industry and some are still working in it. Add decades of personal experience with Video DVDs (I experimented with "ripping" DVDs before CSS was cracked) and other aspects of video creation and editing and you have a great fountain of information. Listen and read 90%+ and keep your personal "This is what works for me!" posts to a minimum, especially when answering a question by someone new to the forum and proper techniques.

@johnmeyer, as I've stated here and in other threads, I greatly acknowledge your experience and knowledge, but as you've often said, your decades of experience are in the film, not video industry.

[lingyi]

You can mux you DVD video (mpeg2video) directly into a mp4 container, without encoding or quality loss.
You can easily test this with my newest program version below (beta) in which i implemented the DVD rip. Point to the desired VTS and the complete movie will be ripped and imported into my program. Then select Multiplex, the ripped video file is already loaded, select the same file as audio source and subtitle source (if available), select mp4 as container and click on Multiplex. Done.
(Read the HowTo first).
https://files.videohelp.com/u/292773/clever_ffmpeg_gui_newest_beta.7z

Playing terminology police here. Can't say this enough, please stop misleading and misinforming new and maybe even veteran members here.

You don't Mux (Multiplex) the video from a .VOB into an .MP4 container, you REMUX it. We've already lost RIP to the meaningless, "I want to RIP my disc to XXX container", please don't help lose MUX, DEMUX and REMUX.

You may well know this, but MUX (Muliplexing) is taking the separate video and audio file(s) and combining into a unified video format* in a video container. DEMUX (DeMultiplexing) a video format file and separating them it the elementary video and audio(s). REMUX (ReMuxing) is taking the video format and placing into a new container without changing the format of the file. You can also REMUX, additional audio tracks, subtitles or chapters into a container.

*I stand guilty and have to own up to my incorrect statement that CODEC and FORMAT were the same thing. They're not. The CODEC is the software/hardware driven process of COmpressing (for saving) and/or DECompressing (for playback) the video/audio into a FORMAT which for a lack of a better word that fails me, is a sub-container for the video file. Though often used interchangeably, "What FORMAT/CODEC did you use?" It's two different things.

[lingyi]

Last one for now.

I've asked the OP twice to tell us what type of DVDs and still no answer. We're all talking about actual Video DVDs, but the OP could have all Data DVDs (possible since he/she states some have that "...are VERY low resolution...") and some contain videos from Canon video flash cards. Or they could be hybrid DVDs with additional video and other files in the EXTRAS folder.

Until we get an answer, everything we've posted may be for naught except for leaving a hopefully useful resource for others.

OP...FOR THE THIRD TIME, TELL US WHAT TYPES OF DVDS YOU HAVE! HOMEMADE, COMMERCIAL, VIDEO OR DATA! If you don't know, describe how they were made or received (maybe wedding or other celebration videos created by a professional?) and what type of video they contain.

It may not seem it, but I'm generally a patient guy, but I'm near the the end of my rope with your silence. One more post that doesn't give us the answers we need and I'm out, at least as far as trying to directly help you.

[lingyi]

When you create a video DVD, as opposed to a data DVD, the file structures of those two different types of discs are indeed different, as you correctly point out. However, if you put either type of DVD into a computer DVD drive (as opposed to a dedicated set-top DVD video player), if both of them contain a VIDEO_TS folder which contains a bunch of VOB & IFO files, you can drop that folder onto a media player, and you will get the DVD menus and everything will play. It will also play if the VIDEO_TS folder is on a hard drive, and you do the same thing.

Not necessarily true. Some media players, both hardware and software won't recognize the .IFO file and won't play back the .VOBs correctly. This is especially true to Blu-Rays where clicking on the index.bdmv or MovieObject.bdmv usually/always won't play either the menu or video directly. Again, probably another effort to thwart non-disc playback.

Also, on some software players, clicking on a .VOB may play it directly, but won't play the next .VOB directly after.

[lingyi]

Back with a random thought.

Years ago, before HDD prices began to fall, I converted the majority of my movie only DVDs to .MKV to save the addtional MBs of data that the .ISO had. Then the event that I've posted about too many times happened, I lost all (600+) DVD rips and remuxes in brain fart moment (both original and backup drives were formatted) and I had to start all over again. This time and ever since, I rip my DVDs to .ISO only, movie only and with extras.

I do use .MKV for my Blu-Rays because often the menus (which I rarely use) can be several GBs of nothing, and few software and hardware media players, play a Blu-Ray .ISO menu correctly or at all.

[johnmeyer]

The OP simply wants to play his DVDs from hard drives. This has been done for decades in high-end home theaters. I first saw this at an event hosted by Jetson Systems back in the mid-90s when I was briefly involved in ultra-high-end home theaters (the kind of thing Bill Gates might have). Jetson installed the control software, and were partnering with a company who had a server that could store <gasp> over 100 movies! You have to reset your thinking to 1995 and remember how much 500 GB of storage cost (roughly $800/gigabyte back then).

Yes, for commercial discs you use a ripper to remove the Decss encryption, but for non-encrypted discs you can simply copy. Either way you end up with the VIDEO_TS folder on a hard drive. Since I assume that the OP is doing this so he and his family can later play the movies, then he has complete control over what media player he uses.

What I know is from hands-on work with thousands of videos, photos, audio files, and other media, not from reading. If the OP wants to get finished with his project in this lifetime, he should take the advice given in post #2, i.e., simply copy or rip the discs to the hard drive and go home. Anything else is going to cause the project to balloon into months of work.

As for my background, I have degrees in both engineering and business; I worked at HP in test & measurement; I later ran three software companies in desktop publishing, videoconferencing (we were the first, long before Netmeeting, Skype, Facetime, etc.), and finally photo editing.

I have absolutely no background whatsoever in the film industry.

[ProWo]

Playing terminology police here. Can't say this enough, please stop misleading and misinforming new and maybe even veteran members here.
You don't Mux (Multiplex) the video from a .VOB into an .MP4 container, you REMUX it.

Mux: you take single tracks (video, audio subtitles) and combine them in a container.
Remux: you take single tracks (video, audio subtitles) and combine them in a container.
You see the difference? Academic debate. Amen.

[lingyi]

Playing terminology police here. Can't say this enough, please stop misleading and misinforming new and maybe even veteran members here.
You don't Mux (Multiplex) the video from a .VOB into an .MP4 container, you REMUX it.

Mux: you take single tracks (video, audio subtitles) and combine them in a container.
Remux: you take single tracks (video, audio subtitles) and combine them in a container.
You see the difference? Academic debate. Amen.

Nope. A Remux takes the complete video (video and audio) in a format and places it into another container as is. There's no demuxing or muxing going on. If there were, it would take much longer. You can test it yourself by using MKVExtract which DOES allow you to Demux and Mux a video format in an MKV container.

[lingyi]

The OP simply wants to play his DVDs from hard drives. This has been done for decades in high-end home theaters. I first saw this at an event hosted by Jetson Systems back in the mid-90s when I was briefly involved in ultra-high-end home theaters (the kind of thing Bill Gates might have). Jetson installed the control software, and were partnering with a company who had a server that could store <gasp> over 100 movies! You have to reset your thinking to 1995 and remember how much 500 GB of storage cost (roughly $800/gigabyte back then).

Yes, for commercial discs you use a ripper to remove the Decss encryption, but for non-encrypted discs you can simply copy. Either way you end up with the VIDEO_TS folder on a hard drive. Since I assume that the OP is doing this so he and his family can later play the movies, then he has complete control over what media player he uses.

What I know is from hands-on work with thousands of videos, photos, audio files, and other media, not from reading. If the OP wants to get finished with his project in this lifetime, he should take the advice given in post #2, i.e., simply copy or rip the discs to the hard drive and go home. Anything else is going to cause the project to balloon into months of work.

As for my background, I have degrees in both engineering and business; I worked at HP in test & measurement; I later ran three software companies in desktop publishing, videoconferencing (we were the first, long before Netmeeting, Skype, Facetime, etc.), and finally photo editing.

I have absolutely no background whatsoever in the film industry.

I could have sworn you said your background was in film. Can't think of anyone else? Maybe Cornucopia? <Takes foot out of mouth!>

Back on my pedantic rant with all due apologies and respect. DeCSS is the decryption software for CSS, the copy protection scheme.

And at least in my experience with thousands of Video DVDs, 99.9% of which don't have CSS encryption because they're from Asia, it's far faster to use a program to RIP to folders/files, .ISO or remux to .MKV because it forces to drive to a much higher speed than a straight to HDD copy. I still use DVDShrink for the majority of my Video DVD rips.

No matter what method the OP uses, it will takes weeks or months to complete. As I stated above, 2,000 discs at even 10 minutes/disc = 20,000 minutes/333 hours/2 months of 40 hour weeks. The RIP/copy process can be cut by a factor of how many drives are used, but there's still time needed to swap the discs, organize and remux the videos into the container of choice. Add encoding to H264/X264 and as you stated it multiples more time and effort. However, unfortunately, there are sometimes purposely placed restrictions on hardware (e.g. PS4) or cheap out solutions (e.g. the ultra cheap media players in Smart HDTVs) that require H264/X264 with specific encoding requirements in an .MP4 container. Not only losing quality, wasting time and electricity for videos that may not be as highly valued and anticipated as the OP expects.

[ProWo]

Nope. A Remux takes the complete video (video and audio) in a format and places it into another container as is. There's no demuxing or muxing going on.

Maybe you should discuss with a software developer (who makes muxing/demuxing software) what he thinks of your statement.

[lingyi]

BTW, I remember 1995 and I remember 1986 when I got my first 8086 PC with *GASP* a 16 color EGA card and monitor! . I don't remember the prices, but I do remember that full motion, full screen digital video was a dream that as you said, only the very rich could afford. As I said above, I also remember long before DeCSS setting my expensive DVD-ROM to "rip" a DVD image by image and letting it run for days, before finally accepting that the warnings that it could take weeks to complete were true and possibility of burning out the drive wasn't worth it.

I applaud your work in the fields you have, though not filmmaking. I'm just a layman, but an unusual layman with an interest that took me from early semi-professional equipment like ED-Beta, a TBC and a professional studio monitor (PVM-2530), to the Video Spigot capture card for Windows (glorious 160x240 16bit MJpeg in 1996!) to today when we're able to virtually (there's always errors on some level) RIP the highest quality discs available.

Been there, done much, but I still bow down to those who have much more professional experience and knowledge than I do and when I find their words match with my layman's experience and knowledge, I bow down even further.

[lingyi]

Nope. A Remux takes the complete video (video and audio) in a format and places it into another container as is. There's no demuxing or muxing going on.

Maybe you should discuss with a software developer (who makes muxing/demuxing software) what he thinks of your statement.

And perhaps you should stick to using terms that are more generally accepted, rather than making them fit what you believe it should be.

Either way, I leave you with the last word if you wish.
The last poster I had an ongoing argument with nearly caused me to leave this forum. Fortunately, he's gone, at least for now.

[TDinTX]

Good day, Lordsmurf.

Can't tell you how happy I am to find you in this forum.
We chatted many times (over 20 years ago) ,and of all the folks that helped
me then, you was the only one that made sense!! GREAT to see that you are
still active.

LOL - back when I was converting hundreds of VCR, 8mm, Hi-8, etc. video taped
to hard drive, you suggested that the ONLY way to know for 100% for sure that I
was preserving the tape data was to simply store all tapes (even the ultra low quality
tapes) to DV.avi - bit-for-bit real time, probably have more than 200TB with 2 x backup,
expense was not, and is not, a factor I found that using a Sony DCR-TRV3420 and
Panasonic AG-3200 solved all my problems. This made my conversion from tape to
hard drive run at tape speed, as no conversion was needed to save bit for bit, but
generated VERY large (but super fast) files

Since early 1972 , I have stored all media in the large offshore white coolers in a controlled
home with constant HVAC. My earliest tapes are audio only tape cassettes. EVERYTHING still
plays without errors. My assumption was that if I kept all tapes, CDs, DVDs, hard drives, flash, etc.
from a quick change in temperature that the media would survive. I can tell you for 100% that it
works!!

My current problem :
Now I want to take those (well over a thousand hours of video) from DV.avi files to
something that will stream over the internet - like YouTube. Obviously, I will not stream DV.avi raw files over the internet.
In a perfect world, I would buy software that would take any DV.avi file, auto-enhance the quality
of video, the auto generate something like a MP4 / H.254 file that I can put on a super fast PC server
at my home so that the grandkids can view their lives on their cell phones to HD on their TVs,
computers, etc. LOL - just think of it as a private mini-YouTube

LOL - it seems that most folks start out by saying "you can't do that"
Nonsense, I started writing code for an IBM 1620, and have never seen
anything that can't be done, just need to find the latest bleeding technology

Anyway, happy to see that you are still involved.
td

[Cornucopia]

Lingyi, I think you were thinking of me. I did work in film & video production & post-production & authoring for ~17 years, then taught it. Then as an IT admin. Then freelance. Now I am in integrated IT-AV design/programming for last 5.

To clarify some nomenclature that has been contested lately...

Mux = elementary (raw) streams -> streams (usu. interleaved) combined within container (kinda like "import")
Demux = the reverse (kinda like "extract")
Remux = Demux + then Mux, for the purposes of either putting streams from one container into a different container, or of re-organzing (indexing?, fixing?, syncing?) within same type of container. Since there is not much of a time delay in doing so (it doesn't need to decode or decompress, etc), it is a fairly quick process, even done round-trip. Unlike encode/decode or compress/decompress.
Note that ALL remux processes do a demux & mux, even if it held in RAM instead of temp/cache files. Streams remain inviolate in their compressed domain. Remux does not = mux alone.
Also note: if remuxing to same container with same type,if no real re-organization is done, you would end up with virtually the same same file size & structure, even if not 100% bit-identical.

Hope that helps,

Scott

[lingyi]

@Cornucopia

Thank you for the clarification! <Puts foot back in mouth!>

[johnmeyer]

My current problem :
Now I want to take those (well over a thousand hours of video) from DV.avi files to
something that will stream over the internet - like YouTube. Obviously, I will not stream DV.avi raw files over the internet.

Were you going to upload these to YouTube (or Vimeo, etc.) or were you going to host the raw files yourself on something like Google Drive or your own media server? You can upload any file format you want to YouTube and it will convert them for you into streaming format, so you actually do NOT need to do any conversion. I am quite certain of this because I recently needed to post 30-seconds of an old DV AVI video, and I just cut it to length and uploaded it to YouTube. It played fine.

The two reasons you would want to convert the DV AVI files is that it will cut down on the upload time (DV is 13 GB / hour), and it might improve the quality. The latter is something I have not tested recently, but it used to be said that YouTube did a lousy job deinterlacing interlaced video, and that you should do it yourself.

If I had a project like yours, I'd get a 30-second test clip that had lots of motion and upload it without doing anything (i.e., just upload the DV AVI file). I'd then put that same 30-second DV AVI file through an AVISynth script, using QTGMC to deinterlace, and encode that using MeGUI or Handbrake to h.264/MP4 (do those two tools use the same h.264 encoder? -- I don't know). Don't do any other processing because all you are trying to test is whether YouTube gives you better-looking results if you deinterlace yourself, and also if it somehow screws up when presented with a DV AVI video.

Wait an hour until YouTube is totally finished with its processing and then watch those test clips as critically as you can, looking at both freeze frames as well as watching the video in motion. I expect that you won't see much, if any, difference.

Make sure, however, that before you do this test that you compare the MP4 with the AVI on your computer before uploading. It is really easy to get a level shift when going from AVI to h.264/MP4 through an AVISynth script, not only due to 0,256 to 16,235 issue, but also because of possible unintended colorspace conversions.

[TDinTX]

Good day, johnmeyer.

THANKS for the post - you do understand

Unfortunately, at age 78 - I simply do not have the time or energy to do what you suggested.
That's the bad news. The good news is that I have what I call Epiphanys from time to time.
When I was writing UNIX code and Fortran/COBOL in the 1970's and on up to 2000 - I would go to sleep
worrying ~ how to write code to fix a problem, and for some unknown reason, I wake up
with the answer ... I can't explain it. This morning, I now have a completely new strategy

I no longer want to set up a server and stream the thousands of hours of family video to all family members over the internet.
I now ONLY want to do the following:
1. Insure that our great, great, great ... grandkid can see how their grandpa/gramma and others lived.
2. By giving EACH of our grandkids (and other family members) their very own TB hard drive(s) with copies of the videos,
it will solve many of my concerns. That is, there will be "MANY copies" of every video stored on hard drives, and at different physical locations.
One copy should survive, even if the USA does survive another 50 years, which I doubt.
3. Rather than give everyone copies of what I now have, which is DV.avi on TB drives, DVDs in stacks in ice chests, and TB hard drives
with copies of flash cards of Canon AVCHD video files - I plan to give everyone copies that are in a GREATLY reduced format - like MP4 - H.2?? or whatever ?.

So currently , EVERYTHING from the old VCR camcorder tapes to the current Canon AVCHD folders are stored and
backed up on TB hard drives in "the absolute best way possible" , that is, they are all in 0 & 1's - which means I could recreate an old VCR
tape if I wanted to - but that would be stupid

So at PRESENT, my Epiphany is to simply convert all existing video described above to a "HIGHLY compressed" video format like MP4 - H.???
and place these files on TB hard drive(s) via USB3 cable. So all that anyone has to do is plug in the USB3 cable and have every file available
as nothing more complicated that a LOT of MP4 files in the root directory (?) that will look like this:
2019-08-27-08-15-Marble Falls TX - Kids jet skiing on Waverunners - fishing for bass.MP4
This format , auto sorts in order by time because: YYYY-MM-DD-hh-mm-location-description.MP4

The USB3 TD hard drive (or TB array) would be hardware Read-Only and easily searched by date , location, and text description.
Just plug in the USB3 & watch any video without having to mess with internet delay, etc.
It will be extremely easy to simply COPY any MP3 file to a cell phone for the purpose of showing it to someone at a remote location,
once they can copy any MP3 file - they can do anything with it. Backing up all the files is simple - just copy to another array.

It can't get any easier than the above, or can it ?

[johnmeyer]

THANKS for the post - you do understand

Unfortunately, at age 78 - I simply do not have the time or energy to do what you suggested.

I'm only ten years younger, so I fully understand the energy thing.

I no longer want to set up a server and stream the thousands of hours of family video to all family members over the internet.
I now ONLY want to do the following: <snip> [give] EACH of our grandkids (and other family members) their very own TB hard drive(s) with copies of the videos,

OK, I'm on the same page with you. I have done the identical thing. Fifteen years ago, I created DVDs from all my family 16mm and Super 8 film, as well as all my VHS, S-VHS and DV home videos. I simply copied those VIDEO_TS folders to hard drives, and gave them to everyone.

However, those don't play easily on mobile devices and, for better or for worse, most people "consume" media on their phone or tablet, not on a TV or computer. (I still don't own a cell phone).

In recent years, I have been encoding to MP4, using encoder settings that ensure the video will play on any modern phone or tablet.

So, if you're up for the challenge, you need to create a more-or-less hands-off "batch" method to take each AVI file and convert it to h.265/MP4. You need to pay attention to the encoder settings because even modern phones and tablets have some limitations on the h.264 files that they will play (the "levels" setting can tax some processors). You obviously want to encode at SD resolution (nothing to be gained by up-resn'g), so that would be 656x480 square pixel (your 720x480 DV AVI files are rectangular pixel, so this is equivalent). I'd pick a medium quality setting for the encoder or, if you are setting a constant bitrate, use something like 5,000,000 bits per second. That may be a little high, but it should work.

Encoding into many small files is probably the way to go, but MP4 does let you insert chapter stops and most media players have a way to use these.

Having done this both ways (i.e., uploading and then letting family members view online via YouTube, or sending them disk drives) be prepared for some disappointment. Most of your family members, including any sons or daughters you may have, probably won't care, at least not initially. This is something that, hopefully, will mean more to them sometime in the future, with the most likely first time being the day after you die .

As for this country being around in 50 years, I'm more worried about the immediate future. However, since we're both rotting away, with one foot in the grave, the stupid virus will probably get us both and we'll not have to worry about that.

Finally, I started with ALGOL-W and FORTRAN, coding on paper tape and, later, punch cards. I never liked FORTRAN. I switched to HP 2116 assembler for controlling test equipment in real time, and that's how I got my first real job, with HP. Every programmer should do at least one real project in assembler. It teaches you everything about how a computer works.