Good day, all - THIS IS MY FIRST POST - need direction to proper forum :-)

[poisondeathray]

Are the original AVI file I uploaded converted to MP4 then stored on the YouTube server. or is the uploaded AVI file stored without any conversions?

Current practice is every video you uploaded is archived as-is. They have been doing that for over 10-15 years. eg. Some old videos get converted to modern formats that didn't exist back then, like AVC and VP9 . Back then they'd use older compression like VP6

That archived version is not the distributed version that you or public view. Multiple versions, multiple resolutions are offered on their servers.

Only the original uploader can re-download the original version through a convoluted process with Google Takeout (basically you have to download a big archive, you can't pick individual videos) . But that does not guarantee things will stay the same. Things are always changing for YT - don't "bank" on them for storage purposes

[poisondeathray]

For interlaced home video, current "best" practice is to deinterlace, upscale to at least 720p

Why?

Because it's the lowest resolution that YT currently offers for 59.94p (or 50p for "PAL") videos. Otherwise you lose half your motion (29.97p and 25p) , and it will be less smooth

But things might change. Maybe lower resolution videos will get higher framerates in the future too - but that's the way it's been for the last >5 years

You should be able to notice the quality difference between YT's deinterlacer, and something like QTGMC , and definitely on freeze frames. And almost everyone should be able to notice the motion smoothness difference between 59.94p and 29.97p

[TDinTX]

Good day, johnmeyer.

LOL - agree with everything you said.

I started on the IBM 1620 with 4,096 characters of main memory - that was for BOTH data and instructions.
Booted with one 80 column card, had a typewriter for output.
We also had an IBM 1800 computer that was my first real time data logging, forget the characters per second telephone
line 256cps from computer to crude oil tower?

So we both go way back. But if you are only 68, then I got to see a lot of stuff you did not see.
I saw the public schools start a massive decline in quality. Kids from ~ 1965 to today do not even
understand history. For example, I bet that MOST folks in this forum do not understand that it was an
accident that we won WW2. If Hitler had not elected Barbarossa and had teamed up with Stalin, took out England
after taking out France, took time to rebuild the captured English ships, then had Japan attack the USA west
coast, while Germany and Russia attacked the USA east coast - the USA would have immediately collapsed.
In early 1941, the USA was as bad off as we are today. Our military was almost non-existent. We survived WW2
because we were allowed crank up our ship manufacturing without being bombed by anyone,
and we got lucky with our carriers in the Pacific.

This will never happen again. We can't withstand a nuclear attack of even a few hundred ICBMs at present, and I'm not sure
we will be able to dodge the virus attacks from China. However, our greatest problem is that we are quickly approaching the point where
our ill-educated population will have more voters that are non-productive than voters that work for a living. The ONLY thing that I see
that has any real hope of changing things is if the Chinese people decide that they want Democracy and revolt - but to do that
they would need the help of the USA & Japan, etc. - which I do not see happening.

However, God does have a way of doing things

[lordsmurf]

but MUX (Muliplexing) is taking the separate video and audio file(s) and combining into a unified video format* in a video container.

Even more than that -- metadata. For DVD-Video, lots of metadata gets muxed in, even in homemade and basic retail discs. That why extraction of VOB via IFO (the master InFOrmation file for the VIDEO_TS, aka Video TitleSet/folderset) is mandatory, and you can't just copy or rename VOB files to MPEG.

Remux: you take single tracks (video, audio subtitles) and combine them in a container.

No! You remux from a muxed file/source.

but for non-encrypted discs you can simply copy.

Yes, but you risk data integrity. If the IFO is fubar, it jumps to a specific byte length for the BUP. So, again, fubar. The disc as folderset will fail. I've seen this countless times -- most often from stubborn/whiny video users (not directed at you, but them).

I have absolutely no background whatsoever in the film industry.

Some of us do.

Maybe you should discuss with a software developer (who makes muxing/demuxing software) what he thinks of your statement.

I've met an incredible amount of truly dumb@ss software developers in my day. Lots of geniuses, too. And many more between those extremes. So not much of a reference as generically stated.

Good day, Lordsmurf.
Can't tell you how happy I am to find you in this forum.
We chatted many times (over 20 years ago) ,and of all the folks that helped me then, you was the only one that made sense!! GREAT to see that you are still active.

Oh wow, you actually know me from my hobby-only days.

you suggested that the ONLY way to know for 100% for sure that I was preserving the tape data was to simply store all tapes (even the ultra low quality tapes) to DV.avi - bit-for-bit real time, probably have more than 200TB with 2 x backup, expense was not, and is not, a factor

... but I've never suggested DV compression due to color loss. MPEG (preferably superbit-DVD or better) or lossless. That said, in some specific scenarios, it was least-worst option, so best.

My current problem :
Now I want to take those (well over a thousand hours of video) from DV.avi files to
something that will stream over the internet - like YouTube. Obviously, I will not stream DV.avi raw files over the internet.
In a perfect world, I would buy software that would take any DV.avi file, auto-enhance the quality
of video, the auto generate something like a MP4 / H.254 file

Learn to use selur's Hybrid. It can batch, QTGMC deinterlace, lots of Avisynth/Vapoursynth built in.
That does everything you want.

that I can put on a super fast PC server
at my home so that the grandkids can view their lives on their cell phones to HD on their TVs,
computers, etc. LOL - just think of it as a private mini-YouTube

This can be possible, but know that residential ISPs often specifically disallow server use. Upgrade to business (and get proper upload), and just rent a cheap server. Several good softwares clone Youtube, like PHP Melody.

LOL - it seems that most folks start out by saying "you can't do that"
Nonsense, I started writing code for an IBM 1620, and have never seen anything that can't be done, just need to find the latest bleeding technology

Software TBC?

Anyway, happy to see that you are still involved.
td

[abolibibelot]

@TDinTX

I now ONLY want to do the following:
1. Insure that our great, great, great ... grandkid can see how their grandpa/gramma and others lived.
2. By giving EACH of our grandkids (and other family members) their very own TB hard drive(s) with copies of the videos,
it will solve many of my concerns. That is, there will be "MANY copies" of every video stored on hard drives, and at different physical locations.
One copy should survive, even if the USA does survive another 50 years, which I doubt.
3. Rather than give everyone copies of what I now have, which is DV.avi on TB drives, DVDs in stacks in ice chests, and TB hard drives
with copies of flash cards of Canon AVCHD video files - I plan to give everyone copies that are in a GREATLY reduced format - like MP4 - H.2?? or whatever ?.

I'm still a bit confused about the “initial parameters” of the whole thing (it was about DVDs, now it's all on HDDs already ?), but indeed, it would seem like a better idea to offer a physical object as a gift to the presumably interested parties, rather than putting some more terabytes of data somewhere in the Cloud, where it would inevitably get diluted and obliterated among the constant flood of fancy digital novelties.

The USB3 TD hard drive (or TB array) would be hardware Read-Only and easily searched by date , location, and text description.

But I don't know how you could turn a hard disk drive “hardware read-only” – it may exist, though, but I'm not aware of such a thing.

So currently , EVERYTHING from the old VCR camcorder tapes to the current Canon AVCHD folders are stored and backed up on TB hard drives in "the absolute best way possible" , that is, they are all in 0 & 1's - which means I could recreate an old VCR tape if I wanted to - but that would be stupid

Stupid and impossible – converting analog to digital then back to analog could never be a lossless process.

I saw the public schools start a massive decline in quality. Kids from ~ 1965 to today do not even understand history. For example, I bet that MOST folks in this forum do not understand that it was an accident that we won WW2. If Hitler had not elected Barbarossa and had teamed up with Stalin, took out England after taking out France, took time to rebuild the captured English ships, then had Japan attack the USA west coast, while Germany and Russia attacked the USA east coast - the USA would have immediately collapsed. In early 1941, the USA was as bad off as we are today. Our military was almost non-existent. We survived WW2 because we were allowed crank up our ship manufacturing without being bombed by anyone, and we got lucky with our carriers in the Pacific.

1) You should like the movie Idiocracy if you haven't seen it already. (With regards to the purported decline in education quality, and more specifically, the ending shows [SPOILER ALERT] a theme park called “Time Masheen”, where the narration of historical events is completely messed up and conflated with fictional works, e.g. the actual Adolf Hitler with the Charlie Chaplin character from The great dictator.)
2) By that account, all of history is made of accidents. (Hitler himself being one.)

However, God does have a way of doing things

Indeed He does !
“But I gotta tell ya, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize something is f**ked up. Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Icecapades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like this do not belong in the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.”
-- George Carlin

(I still don't own a cell phone).

“Only” 40 here, and never got into a steady, peaceful relationship with that particular device. Got one back in 1998 when it was still considered a luxury, by the end of the mandatory 12 months I didn't feel the need to renew the subscription (and those bastards still sent me a new bill every month because of some underhanded contract intricacy – now outlawed – so I had to block the payments at the bank). Then I got more and more appalled by how much this object transformed people's behaviour over the course of a few years (I will never get used to the way people shout shamelessly when they hold one on their cheek and loudly babble about their miserable life without the slightest care for everybody around – even elderly people do that now so it's not even a generation thing), and firmly decided to do without. (Not so great a decision when it comes to, ahem, relationships, or attempts to have them !) Then about a year ago, pressure got too high as several services, including car-sharing websites, now make it mandatory to have one, so I got the most basic one I could find, and had the eery experience of sending my first text messages some 20 years after everybody (the one I had before didn't even have that feature). Even tried to communicate with a 20-something girl met in the metro, with whom I had had a genuinely rich and exhilarating conversation (she had a T-shirt with the slogan “we all come from love” and was reading Arthur Schopenhauer's The world as will and representation, imagine that !), but I soon realized that I had missed a great deal of the intricate social codes associated with these damn things, and royally messed it up in 50 words or less (the last of her four very short messages, seemingly written by a 14-year-old from a bad neighbourhood, said – translated from french – “re-read your messages, you're just creepy”, even though I hadn't said anything remotely salacious or even flirtatious). My neighbour is almost 60, quite well educated based on his musical tastes and the books on his shelves, yet he seems to be suffering from an acute case of attention deficit disorder induced in part by his parallelepipedic gizmo (for instance, once I tried to show him a 3 minutes video I had made of my dearly departed cat, himself being a cat lover, and he was constantly checking something on his touch screen so he barely saw anything at all and just nodded politely). So I figure that only fools get enslaved by this thing, either that or it makes fools out of anyone who starts using them profusely. So again I lost interest and haven't touched the f**ker in more than 6 months. (Still recharge it, still pay 4€/month, how silly is that...)
At least you still can share Jesse Ventura's life mission to never own a cell phone !


@ poisondeathray

For interlaced home video, current "best" practice is to deinterlace, upscale to at least 720p. Why? Because it's the lowest resolution that YT currently offers for 59.94p (or 50p for "PAL") videos. Otherwise you lose half your motion (29.97p and 25p) , and it will be less smooth

And also someone said – well, quickly checked, you said some time ago that :

YT is one of the few cases where upscaling to at least "HD" 720 height is beneficial. It allocates more bitrate in proportion, and even the sd version of hd, looks better than the sd version

@ johnmeyer

MeGUI or Handbrake to h.264/MP4 (do those two tools use the same h.264 encoder? -- I don't know).

MeGUI explicitly relies on x264 (the x264.exe is in the "tools" subfolder), AFAIK Handbrake also relies on it under the hood, although the code must be embedded within the Handbrake executable or its DLLs instead of being present as a standalone .exe file.

In recent years, I have been encoding to MP4, using encoder settings that ensure the video will play on any modern phone or tablet.

As this thread has been heavy on terminology debates, this doesn't make little sense, strictly speaking.

so that would be 656x480 square pixel

Why 656 and not 640 ?

I'd pick a medium quality setting for the encoder or, if you are setting a constant bitrate, use something like 5,000,000 bits per second. That may be a little high, but it should work.

I don't see any sound reason nowadays to use constant bitrate encoding, constant quality encoding is much more efficient.

Having done this both ways (i.e., uploading and then letting family members view online via YouTube, or sending them disk drives) be prepared for some disappointment. Most of your family members, including any sons or daughters you may have, probably won't care, at least not initially. This is something that, hopefully, will mean more to them sometime in the future, with the most likely first time being the day after you die .

Reminds me of this :


And two other funny and thoughtful pictures I stumbled upon while looking for the above one on the mess of my main HDD, which are somewhat tangentially related to one or more of the many topics adressed in this thread (in the “life's lessons” department, shall we say) :

[TDinTX]

A quick question that I can't solve:

In Windows 10 "File Explorer" when sorting by NAME , the folders sort as a group, and all other files sort as a group.
How do I sort by NAME and get a listing that has folders and files interspersed , that is, EVERY item in the File Explorer list is
sorted ONLY by the characters in the folder or file NAME? That is, I do not want any grouping whatsoever.

At the moment, the ONLY thing that I can think of to solve this problem is to stop and put each AVI, shortcut, etc. file in it's very own folder
with the folder having the same name as the file. Writing code to do this in batch mode would probably be fairly easy ... I just
hope I have overlooked a simple setting in File Explorer...

[ProWo]

A quick question that I can't solve:
In Windows 10 "File Explorer" when sorting by NAME , the folders sort as a group, and all other files sort as a group.
How do I sort by NAME and get a listing that has folders and files interspersed , that is, EVERY item in the File Explorer list is
sorted ONLY by the characters in the folder or file NAME? That is, I do not want any grouping whatsoever.

Right click into a empty place into the folder, set Group, set by name.

[abolibibelot]

Right click into a empty place into the folder, set Group, set by name.

On Windows 7 (it's probably the same behaviour in Windows 10) this groups folders and files by intervals of their first character, for instance : "E – K (2)" (2 files), "L – P (11)" (5 folders and 6 files), "Q – Z (3)" (1 folder and 2 files). What "TDinTX" wants, as I understand it, is that all files and folders appear in alphanumeric order, regardless of whether each item is a file or a folder. I don't know if it is possible, but even if it is, it would only affect the current system, there would be no control over how it appears on another system, or whatever new fancy "improved" layout Windows or whatever other OS comes up in the future. (Since the goal is to organize files on hard disk drives meant as gifts to relatives.)

As for shortcuts, they can be broken quite easily if there's any modification to the paths of files / folders they point to. Hard links and symbolic links might be more robust and more convenient. LinkShellExtension makes it very easy to create them.

[abolibibelot]

Right click into a empty place into the folder, set Group, set by name.

On Windows 7 (it's probably the same behaviour in Windows 10) this groups folders and files by intervals of their first character, for instance : "E – K (2)" (2 files), "L – P (11)" (5 folders and 6 files), "Q – Z (3)" (1 folder and 2 files). What "TDinTX" wants, as I understand it, is that all files and folders appear in alphanumeric order, regardless of whether each item is a file or a folder. I don't know if it is possible, but even if it is, it would only affect the current system, there would be no control over how it appears on another system, or whatever new fancy "improved" layout Windows or whatever other OS comes up in the future. (Since the goal is to organize files on hard disk drives meant as gifts to relatives.)

As for shortcuts, they can be broken quite easily if there's any modification to the paths of files / folders they point to. Hard links and symbolic links might be more robust and more convenient. LinkShellExtension makes it very easy to create them.


(Sorry for the double post... at least I get number #69, which is a fine number...)

[abolibibelot]

Apparently no :
https://superuser.com/questions/416059/show-files-and-folders-sorted-by-name-not-folde...rst-then-files
https://superuser.com/questions/899460/list-alphabetically-in-windows-explorer-with-fo...xed-with-files
https://superuser.com/questions/1323512/windows-10-sort-folders-with-files
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/how-to-desegregate-foldersfiles-...7-82609106570d

[TDinTX]

Good day, all.
LOL - I finally know what I will do with the hundreds of DVDs I have stored in ice chests
I went back and examined the DVDs and realized that EVERY DVD is in fact digital. I have
NO analog anything to deal with! (I will post a little write-up on how I converted all my analog 8mm & VHS
to digital in a separate post today. I hope it helps someone, as it was a royal nightmare for me back when
I did the A to D conversions. It took me forever to figure out the correct hardware, etc.
LOL - Lordsmurf will understand if I'm not to be found to answer questions

To make a long story short, I plan to simply store each DVD in a folder with a folder name that will auto sort into
date order. My entire data base will be one video stored in it's low level digital format in a folder by itself. So each
folder is a video in uncompressed form. Mostly DV.avi with a few *.avi files, one per folder.
Trying to stream this data base over the internet would be insane at best. Trying to compress the files to HEVC or any
similar format would be equally as ignorant - I have too many hours of video. It would take forever using any conversion
software I have seen.

Each family member gets a complete read-only database , probably multi-TB hard drive array - whatever needed.
If a grandkid wants to see what was going on the day of his/her birth and knows their birthday, they can
simply go to that folder by date & watch the video, copy out clips for email/text/YouTube or whatever.

Getting all the existing 2005 to 2010 DVDs copied over to folders on TB hard drives will be a lot faster
than I was thinking. I did a little testing this morning and was able to copy a DV.avi image from the DVD
to the folder in ~ 5.1 minutes, and that includes BOTH copy & verify of the file. I may take the current version of
MediaInfo use it to extract a text of the file, then use that text data to create the name of the folder to make things more automated,
but a simple BAT could make it fast too.

I really do not have many more problems, just need to set up a few PCs and get to copying DVDs.
Sounds like a good part time job for a deserving high school kid
Still have not found a SIMPLE way to copy out a 5 minute clip from a DV.avi with a couple of
mouse clicks, and end up with a URL to that clip on YouTube ... just too many steps in the
process to be useful. It's not rocket science - there should be code out there that is as simple as two or three mouse clicks

Here are some notes I did this morning:
(COPY)
Notes: COPY all remaining DVDs (being from 2005 through 2010) to folders on MASTER hard drive(s). Copy MASTER set to BACKUP set 1, and BACKUP set 2. There will be three (3) complete physical sets of TB hard drives, each being a 1:1 digital image of every existing DVD in ice chests. Trash the existing DVD platters & the backup platters after storing the TB hard drive sets – or continue to keep in ice chests … for how long?
The earliest DVDs, being the 2005 DVDs were created with Sony Digital8 camcorders. There are NO analog DVDs remaining, only digital video. The digital (D8) tape was copied directly to a blank DVD, as there was no need to do any conversions of any kind. The tape was rewound, and a 2nd DVD was created as a backup DVD copy. That is, the master and backup DVDs are 100% the same as the D8 tapes. All D8 tapes have been trashed.
A typical 2005 D8 tape will have the files stored as VOBs, example VTS_)1_1.VOB. If you rename VOB to AVI, all software over the years sees an avi file – NP. MediaInfo 20.03 displays the VOB and the AVI as 100% the same – other than a note that the file extension really should be m2ts, mts, or ssif , and not avi
A typical 2010 DVD was created with a Canon camcorder using a fast flash memory card. The flash memory card was simply copied and verify to the DVD – no conversions of any kind, pure digital to digital file copy & file verify. A backup DVD copy was created, so there is a master and a backup DVD for each flash card. The flash cards were low level erased, and used again and again. Using a 4GB card made it easy, as that is the size we needed for a common blank DVD.
Since 2010, we simply record to fast flash cards (we currently use 128GB cards and record in MP4 only) with a Canon camcorder and copy to folders on a MASTER and a BACKUP (8TB) external hard drives via USB3 ports. We use a fast desktop PC with all solid state memory, although it is not really needed now with no conversions. The camcorder 128GB flash card is low level formatted, and used again & again. Zero problems. No conversions of any kind needed – just copy with verify.
It looks like each DVD copy & verify to the Master and Backup TB hard drives will take ~5 minutes per DVD copy. So that translates to about 10 minutes to write & verify to the MASTER and the BACKUP (8TB or larger) hard drives. Add another 5 minutes to type in the folder name as year,month.day, hour, location, description of video content. By having ONLY folders, you have a file system that sorts in perfect date order, be it one TB hard drive, or a cluster, etc. attached to a PC via USB3 – or whatever the future brings. So the plan is to NOT put the data base online as streaming DV.avi would be insanity, and using software to reduce the DV.avi would be even more insane. So everyone has their very own copy of the entire data base containing the original digital video in date order.
So if the grandkids want to see video of the day they were born, just go to that folder by date & copy out whatever video clips you want in any format you want, like HEVC , or whatever. As long as you have the ORIGINAL digital file – anything is possible in the future. Who knows, someday we may have AI that can do 3D or holograms , or … later, td

[TDinTX]

Here is what I think is the VERY BEST way to digitize old 8mm, Hi-8, VCR/VHS ANALOG tapes
to a digital file on a PC hard drive. If I'm not here to answer questions, I know Lordsmurf can
==========COPY=======
How I converted hundreds of “ANALOG” video tapes of 8mm, Hi-8, and VCR/VHS analog tapes to AVI digital files in real-time. No software CONVERSION required, this is a hardware real-time conversion. A 1 hour ANALOG tape took only 1 hour to convert to digital AVI. Digital8 tapes were also read and copied to disk as DV.avi files.
Software :
Freeware WinDV
WinDV is a small and easy to use Windows application for capturing videos from DV device (camcorder) into AVI-files and for recording AVI-files into DV device via FireWire (IEEE 1394) interface.
Hardware:
Camcorder : Sony DCR-TRV320 (and ONLY this model, IMHO)
This camcorder has the ability to read a Digital8 (D8) tape and output a DV.avi file via Firewire in real-time using no conversion software, only hardware . That is, all you have to do to make an avi file of the tape is to play the tape and record the DV.avi file to a PC via Firewire using WinDV to capture to disk. (Solid state hard drives in a fast PC with lots of fast main memory is a must!!!) I tried more expensive Sony camcorders with the pass-through feature, but NONE were as bullet proof as the 320. It just ran and ran without needing constant head cleaning like the other models.
ALSO --- , this specific 320 camcorder has another unique feature: it has the ability to read an ANALOG tape, like 8MM and Hi-8 and output that tape in DIGITAL DV,avi file via Firewire. So you DO NOT need a software solution, you have a SUPER fast method of going from A to D by using the HARDWARE conversion in real-time. So all you have to do is play an analog tape and you end up with a REALLY high quality digital DV.avi on your PC hard drive - all within the time it takes to play the analog tape. That is, a 2 hour analog tape will take only 2 hours to generate the final product, a digital avi file on your hard drive of HIGH quality. As I remember, the feature is called pass-through.
ALSO --: there is a way to convert the old VCR analog tapes to DV.avi. Just play the VCR tape and send the RCA out to the TRV320 in, and the Firewire output is digital video (DV,avi) to the PC hard drive via WinDV. So you can convert all 8mm & VCR analog tapes to a DV.avi PC file of high quality in real time. The other software conversion solutions took forever to run, and the output was bad.
The BEST device I found to play and real-time clean up old VCR camcorder tapes was the Panasonic AG-3200 video cassette recorder with the Panasonic VCR/TV remote control LP20878-022. This was the RCA input to the Sony DCR-TRV320 that did a hardware real-time conversion to PC via the Firewire cable. It ONLY takes the time needed to read the VCR tape. It's all real-time hardware conversion.
LOL - and yes, it takes a LOT of disk space to do DV.avi digital files- like ~ 13GB per hour to store the DV.avi file So you end up with some big avi files - but they are WAY superior to a software dongle solutions that takes hours of PC processing and makes a crummy video. IMHO TB hard drives of 8TB and more are super cheap now. If you do not want to store massive amounts of DV.avi files as I am doing, then it’s really easy & fast to convert the DV.avi into HEVC or whatever of smaller size. However, there is no way to go back after you trash the original media and delete the DV.avi – so I buy lots of TB storage & assume that hard drives will get bigger, faster, and cheaper per TB in the future ... later, td

[abolibibelot]

I went back and examined the DVDs and realized that EVERY DVD is in fact digital.
...
There are NO analog DVDs remaining, only digital video.

I have trouble figuring out what an "analog DVD" could be.

If you rename VOB to AVI, all software over the years sees an avi file – NP. MediaInfo 20.03 displays the VOB and the AVI as 100% the same – other than a note that the file extension really should be m2ts, mts, or ssif , and not avi

Then why change the extension ?

It looks like each DVD copy & verify to the Master and Backup TB hard drives will take ~5 minutes per DVD copy. So that translates to about 10 minutes to write & verify to the MASTER and the BACKUP (8TB or larger) hard drives. Add another 5 minutes to type in the folder name as year,month.day, hour, location, description of video content.

When I transferred my CD/DVD archives back to a HDD, one thing I wanted was to preserve the original timestamps, including folders' and subfolders' timestamps ; on Windows, few tools manage to do that. Two that work well are IsoBuster, and Robocopy (with the /DCOPY:T switch).

[EDIT] Also, it might be a good idea to do the verification by means of checksum computation, and save the values in text files. That way, if a glitch is found later on in one of those files, it will be possible to check if it has been altered since it was transferred from the optical disc, or if the defect was already there. Or if one of these HDDs starts to act up and the whole structure has to be re-created from a backup, it will allow to ascertain that all files are in pristine state. For that kind of purpose I use a command line tool called md5deep, with this command :

md5deep64 -r -z -t -e -j1 "H:\[main folder path]\*" > "G:\md5deep [main folder path] [date].txt"

-r => recursive (processes all subfolders)
-z => displays file sizes
-t => displays creation times
-e => show estimated time remaining
-j => number of threads
The last one is important, as I found out that running it without that switch would use all available threads (8 for an Intel i7 6700K CPU), which means reading several files simultaneously, which means that the HDD's heads have to run like crazy from one file to the other, which considerably slows down the process and stresses the drive for no reason (it may be different on a SSD, haven't tested – and it would be even worse with an optical drive, considering how slow they are to begin with). It also has another adverse effect, which is that files can be processed in a different order in the source and destination folder. With -j1, each file is read sequentially, which maxes out the drive's throughput (if the file is not fragmented), and files are read in a consistent order. That way, when running two commands simultaneously, one for the source folder and one for the destination folder, the resulting text files should be identical, except the files' paths. So I open one with Notepad2, for instance the "destination folder" text file, replace for all lines the path of the "destination" main folder with the path of the "source" main folder (for instance, in a case like this, replace each instance of "E:\DVD 20150512\" with "D:\" if D: is the optical drive), then save with a new name. Then I check the MD5 of the "source" text file and the edited "destination" text file (with paths matching the "source" text file) : if the values are the same, it means all the individual files' MD5 values are identical, and therefore that all files are identical between the source folder and the destination folder. (I've done this for folder with hundreds of GB of files.) In case of discrepancy, I would open both files in WinMerge and check what's wrong.
Perhaps there would be a reliable way to calculate checksums from the files on the optical discs while copying, with no slow-down, and then it would be much faster to do a batch checksum verification of the files on the HDD.

Sounds like a good part time job for a deserving high school kid

Indeed, paying someone to do that tedious task seems like a wise idea. With 2 or 3 optical drives managed by the same person the total time could be significantly reduced (if the total read + verify operation takes about 10min : start a disc copy on drive 1, wait ~3min, start another on drive 2, wait ~3min, start another on drive 3, wait ~3min, change the disc on drive 1, repeat...).

Trying to compress the files to HEVC or any similar format would be equally as ignorant - I have too many hours of video. It would take forever using any conversion software I have seen.

It could be automated, once all native files have been transferred to HDDs. Or it could be done for a selection of the whole. Or there could be a script in root directory to cut an excerpt of any file and re-compress it on-demand – but that's kinda next level stuff.

[lingyi]

The OP has been spouting nonsense throughout his posts, mixing what he thinks he knows with what he really doesn't. A mess!

[DB83]

Gee. For once I really do hope that lordsmurf rejoins the thread and trashes the OPs opinion of NTSC sources as DV.avi


For those that wonder, all the analog dvds were kept in the ice chests a little too long and morphed in to digital dvds


Sarcasm mode turned off.

[TDinTX]

LOL - yep, I'll bet money that all DVDs end up with what most folks think are zeros and ones, but are actually encoded with tiny iron oxide particles , much like the
magnetic tapes we used on IBM mainframes in the 1960s - not much has changed, except the particles are a lot smaller, and in more of a circle.
I assume if the particles are encoded properly then the DVD is in fact digital, not sure what they are if you could degauss one, could it be an analog DVD

What I was trying to say was:
analog DVDs = those DVDs that were generated from an analog source , like 8mm, Hi-8 tapes
digital DVDs = those DVDs that were generated from a digital source, like encoded Digital8 tape and flash memory

[TDinTX]

LOL - actually, a DVD burns tiny laser pits, but same principal as the old iron oxide particles - it is either off , or on

[lingyi]

LOL - actually, a DVD burns tiny laser pits, but same principal as the old iron oxide particles - it is either off , or on

Again, STOP, JUST STOP! Your statements only further what you think you know and don't know or overly simplify as to be incorrect.

Write Once optical media is comprised of pits (1) AND lands (0). Rewritable optical media uses Phase Change Crystals, amorphous in their natural state, crystalline state when heated. Unsure which represents 1 and which represents 0

Pressed media is never burned, the read layer is pressed from a negative master in which the pits and lands have been created.

[lingyi]

Arrgghhhh...I was going to ignore the OP's posts, but feel bad other members reading and accepting these incorrect statements as true.

Continue to ignore me and the others as you rudely have. This is for the others who may come across this thread.

To make a long story short, I plan to simply store each DVD in a folder with a folder name that will auto sort into
date order. My entire data base will be one video stored in it's low level digital format in a folder by itself. So each
folder is a video in uncompressed form. Mostly DV.avi with a few *.avi files, one per folder.

DV .AVI is not uncompressed. True uncompressed video would be multiple times the 13GB/hour of DV.

The earliest DVDs, being the 2005 DVDs were created with Sony Digital8 camcorders. There are NO analog DVDs remaining, only digital video. The digital (D8) tape was copied directly to a blank DVD, as there was no need to do any conversions of any kind. The tape was rewound, and a 2nd DVD was created as a backup DVD copy. That is, the master and backup DVDs are 100% the same as the D8 tapes. All D8 tapes have been trashed.

A typical 2005 D8 tape will have the files stored as VOBs, example VTS_)1_1.VOB. If you rename VOB to AVI, all software over the years sees an avi file – NP. MediaInfo 20.03 displays the VOB and the AVI as 100% the same – other than a note that the file extension really should be m2ts, mts, or ssif , and not avi

Still doesn't explain whether you have DATA or VIDEO DVDs. If the DV tapes were saved as XXX.AVI in DV FORMAT, they're DATA DVDs. If the DVD contains .VOBs, then they've been converted to MPEG-2 (losing quality) and are contained in VIDEO DVDs.

You've completely ignored the long discussions about why a .VOB is more than a container and if a .MPEG-2 (or MPEG-1) in a .VOB (container) is more than 1GB it must split into multiple .VOBs and should not be just converted/played as an individual file.

As I've explained in detail above, many/most media players ignore file extensions and the reason Mediainfo states your renamed .VOB is anything but .AVI is because it's reading the MPEG-2 FORMAT and suggesting common extensions for that FORMAT

A typical 2010 DVD was created with a Canon camcorder using a fast flash memory card. The flash memory card was simply copied and verify to the DVD – no conversions of any kind, pure digital to digital file copy & file verify. A backup DVD copy was created, so there is a master and a backup DVD for each flash card. The flash cards were low level erased, and used again and again. Using a 4GB card made it easy, as that is the size we needed for a common blank DVD.

Stop using the term Low Level Format [Erased]. Low Level Formatting of any storage media ended in the early 90's when MFM and RLL drives were replaced with IDE and later SATA drives. NO current storage media can be Low Level Formatted outside of the factory. Currently in Windows, you can either Quick Format, which replaces the File Allocation Table (FAT) with a blank one or Full Format which replaces the FAT and does a full surface scan of the storage media.

That is, all you have to do to make an avi file of the tape is to play the tape and record the DV.avi file to a PC via Firewire using WinDV to capture to disk. (Solid state hard drives in a fast PC with lots of fast main memory is a must!!!)

I'll leave correction of the rest of the incorrect statements in this post to others who are far better suited to correcting them. But will address this one as lordsmurf has clearly explained that DV was a compromise for consumers to be able to record and transfer video WITHOUT requiring a fast hard drive (much less SSDs which didn't exist back then), a fast PC and lots of fast memory.

Even the current best analog to digital transfer systems can be based on a P4 and XP with a regular (ideally dedicated) HDD.

[TDinTX]

Thanks, Lingyi.
LOL – how do you explain that I was able to get awesome quality DV.avi files, “real-time” using the hardware and software I described? Please list the specific hardware and software solution you would have used. Have you found a way to create an awesome quality digital file simply by playing the analog tape? I can’t wait to hear your list of hardware and software with instructions and time required to do the conversion. REALLY , I want to hear it, because I never found any software that actually worked, other than the one I posted.

[lordsmurf]

My participation has been requested...

Here is what I think is the VERY BEST way
DV

In 1995, sure.
By 2005, no.
In 2020, definitely no.

Will it work? Yes.
Will it be quality? Not really. Color loss, cooked colors, crunchy quality, blocks.

I'm not 100% anti-DV, especially not for PAL. But I'm not a fanboy or apologist either. I shake my head at, but understand the Mac users (DV centric OS). Though noting workarounds do exists for better cards/formats.

The BEST device I found to play and real-time clean up old VCR camcorder tapes was the Panasonic AG-3200

No line TBC.

LOL - Lordsmurf will understand if I'm not to be found to answer questions

I will?

I plan to simply store each DVD
stored in it's low level digital format
uncompressed form.
Mostly DV.avi

Huh?

Trying to compress the files to HEVC or any similar format would be equally as ignorant

Agreed.

If a grandkid
Sounds like a good part time job for a deserving high school kid

In COVID-19 times, at your age, definitely not. Stay safe.

There are NO analog DVDs remaining, only digital video.

Huh?

LOL - yep, I'll bet money that all DVDs end up with what most folks think are zeros and ones, but are actually encoded with tiny iron oxide particles

No.
Pressed metal, organic metallic dye, inorganic metallic dye, or phase-change metallics.

magnetic tapes we used on IBM mainframes in the 1960s - not much has changed

Tape is tape, disc is disc.
IBM tape vs. VHS tape, probably not huge difference.
IBM tape vs. DVD = apples vs. rubber baby buggy bumpers

I assume if the particles are encoded properly then the DVD is in fact digital, not sure what they are if you could degauss one, could it be an analog DVD

Discs are optical, not magnetic. No degaussing is possible.
But you could drop it on the sidewalk, step on it, and slide it across the pavement. That'll take care of it.

What I was trying to say was:
analog DVDs = those DVDs that were generated from an analog source , like 8mm, Hi-8 tapes
digital DVDs = those DVDs that were generated from a digital source, like encoded Digital8 tape and flash memory

What you're doing is compounding source+delivery terms, which is a no-no. If I have a salad for lunch, a few hours later it's not "lettuce poop". But at least you've explained, so no longer a "WTF?"

Arrgghhhh...

I want to put you and TDinTX in a room. And film it. It may be a sequel to Grumpier Old Men.
You're John, he's Max.

This thread has been entertaining for the past 20 minutes. It's had everything from my jaw dropping in disbelief, to giggling hysterically. And I leave it laughing. Time for bed fellas. It's been fun.

[lingyi]

Arrgghhhh...

want to put you and TDinTX in a room. And film it. It may be a sequel to Grumpier Old Men.
You're John, he's Max.

I'd turn blue before I'd do that! Oh wait, you'd like that huh? Besides, I'm definitely the Grumpier one. Learned from the old you!

This thread has been entertaining for the past 20 minutes. It's had everything from my jaw dropping in disbelief, to giggling hysterically. And I leave it laughing. Time for be fellas. It's been fun.

Thanks for stopping by! Always be Smurfin'!

[TDinTX]

Still waiting for a list of specific hardware by make and model and software required with time to process 8mm & Hi8 analog taped to a digital file

[lingyi]

Thanks, Lingyi.
LOL – how do you explain that I was able to get awesome quality DV.avi files, “real-time” using the hardware and software I described? Please list the specific hardware and software solution you would have used. Have you found a way to create an awesome quality digital file simply by playing the analog tape? I can’t wait to hear your list of hardware and software with instructions and time required to do the conversion. REALLY , I want to hear it, because I never found any software that actually worked, other than the one I posted.

"...awesome quality DV.avi..." is relative. Consumer DV is Consumer DV and the lowest tier of the DV family. I've learned not to use definitive statements on this and other forums, but I can say with great certainty that if you posted a sample of your "...awesome quality DV.avi..." and some of the regulars here will point out shortcomings you're may not even be aware of.

"Please list the specific hardware and software solution you would have used. Have you found a way to create an awesome quality digital file simply by playing the analog tape? I can’t wait to hear your list of hardware and software with instructions and time required to do the conversion. REALLY , I want to hear it, because I never found any software that actually worked, other than the one I posted."

I don't know if I've stated this above, but I've long ago giving up on capturing, choosing to spend my time enjoying pre-recorded cinematic and TV works (no home videos or pics for me). And I definitely don't have the "golden eyes' of many here.

I do know however that many of the regulars here, some of which you've ignored, are very knowledgeable and one person, years ago posted what is probably the definitive explanation of the how to capture analog video. http://www.digitalfaq.com/editorials/digital-video/professional-analog-workflow.htm None of the equipment or techniques involves DV. And with the exception of the video cameras and duplicates of hardware, the basics apply to a home setup.

FWIW, I've been posting links and references to this article and have rarely if ever been called out on it.

Now...what is that poster's name??? He's short, royalty and blue...hmmmm...it will come to me!

lordsmurf...hope you get a chuckle of this post! Going to try to make it my last here as I'm tired of the "This works for me!" answers and don't want to get a room.

Edit: ALL analog video capture must be done in realtime. Get it done right with the right equipment and the post-processing time is minimal or zero. Again, based on what I did a long time ago with sub-par equipment (and which I've kept almost none of except for nostalgia purposed) and years of reading and learning from others here, at digitalfaq.com, reference sites and books. Again, I generally don't post what I THINK I know, I try to post what I KNOW, usually backed with references. I place it back in your court to prove any of what I've posted on this thread definitively wrong (other than my mistaken assumptions about ProWo and johnmeyer personally).

[lingyi]

List of recommended equipment by that short, royal, blue guy. Arrghhh...what's his name??? KingSnoop? PrinceSmelly? DukeS'more?

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/1567-vcr-buying-guide.html
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/marketplace/7910-sale-jvc-vhs.html
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/marketplace/8253-sale-ati-600-a.html
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/marketplace/8243-sale-tbc-1000-a.html

[abolibibelot]

Sounds like a good part time job for a deserving high school kid

In COVID-19 times, at your age, definitely not. Stay safe.

Then... sounds like a good full time job for an undeserving Covid-free, stay-at-home, Misery-style slave... è_é

I'm not 100% anti-DV, especially not for PAL.

Why PAL ?

[Cornucopia]

Why PAL? - because 4:2:0 color subsampling, which matches most other formats.
Vs. NTSC dv which uses 4:1:1, and is orphaned.


Scott

[manono]

Why PAL ?

Color subsampling, 4:2:0 (PAL) .vs 4:1:1 (NTSC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

[lingyi]

*Takes a deeeeep breath*

Ah...actual facts!

I love the smell of actual facts in this thread...smells like...SANITY!

[lordsmurf]

Still waiting for a list of specific hardware by make and model and software required with time to process 8mm & Hi8 analog taped to a digital file

camera > TBC > capture card

Preferred via s-video.
Lossless.

For cameras, see here: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/video-capture/10257-video8-hi8-digital8.html
For TBCs, several options, mostly DataVideo or Cypress, DataVideo TBC-1000 is a favorite used by many.
For capture card, it really depends on OS and version, as well as form-factor/age of system.

Quality conversion of consumer analog sources has a recipe for quality. Follow it.

Then... sounds like a good full time job for an undeserving Covid-free, stay-at-home, Misery-style slave...

Or a DIYer.