And the "Poor me" begins!
You've been given advice and samples of what you can do [to] modify the videos you, and the insignificantly small % of others that may agree with your opinion (both color and editing) can do. In the 2+ years you began your rant about Cleopatra, you could have learned the techniques required. [edit: With low cost or free software. But that's another thread.]
You asked in a another forum what you could do to have the 20th Century Fox (now 21st Century Fox under Disney) release the theatrical version of the film. The answer is contact them directly as a single customer or creating and presenting a petition signed by those with your shared interest asking for the release. The possibility of this happening isvirtually nil as the overwhelmingly mass market, which incentivizes 99% of video releases is happy with the current release, in restoration and editing.
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Last edited by lingyi; 14th Sep 2019 at 20:59. Reason: Grammar
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Hmmm...
I get:
"Norma is a female name. A single instance of the name Norma is recorded 1203, where it perhaps derives from the Latin word norma, meaning "precept"." "
"Armon (Hebrew: אַרְמוֹן) is a male given name of Hebrew origin meaning "high place."
"Moran"(East Africa) An unmarried Maasai or Samburu warrior. or
The variant Maran or Moran (Syriac: ܡܪܢ, Māran), meaning "Our Lord", is a particular title given to Jesus, either alone or in combination with other names and titles."
Nope...nothing insulting that I see!
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Interesting,
I was looking for corresponding "1963 Cleopatra trailer screenshot (76).jpg" frame posted earlier and I couldn't find it in the HD stream
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1963_Cleopatra_trailer_screenshot_(76).jpg
There are shots of that camera view while still under the entranceway arch; but in that trailer screenshot - they have exited well out of arch in that screenshot. It's present in the trailer video on YT (non decimated 29.97 version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOU-soA-vWU
Maybe dellsam34 can check when he gets a chance if it's there in the retail BD. Or was it cut out (!)? Just curious, thanksLast edited by poisondeathray; 14th Sep 2019 at 20:10.
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I was not going to post again, but I love puzzles. The most obvious anagram that fits is:
Roman
Very appropriate for someone who is, I think it is fair to say, obsessed with a Roman epic. I assume this is what was intended by DB83.
However, the OP was so eager to be insulted that he saw what he wanted to see, and not what was actually there.
BTW, if you want to look at a fairly exhaustive list of solutions to DB83's anagram, here's one of thousands of anagram solution sites:
https://anagram-solver.net/RAMON
Perhaps there is an insult lurking in there that we all overlooked. I'm sure our friend can find it.Last edited by johnmeyer; 14th Sep 2019 at 22:47.
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I wouldn't say the general public is happy with any restoration or editing, including this one, they most probably simply do not know how the film is supposed to look and are not aware of the butchering going on behind the scenes. Now that Fox is owned by Disney, my hope is they'll accidentally find the missing footage while cleaning house. Who knows.
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The original trailer features alternate takes not seen in the available bluray, when she comes out of the carpet, talking to caesar, talking to antony in the green dress, talking to antony in the throne room are all different angles/shots not seen in the finish film. Some of the dialogue changes too, Antony says in the trailer 'you dare ask a proconsul of Rome?', in the finished film it's 'you dare ask a proconsul of the Roman Empire?', of note is that this alternate footage, in terms of color temperature, brightness and contrast, looks EXACTLY like the original release for dvd of the film, and what I remember from tv showings as a child in the 90's. Further proof that this is what was recorded and the bluray is a butchery.
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The reality is the metric for success in regards to movie releases, both in the theater and home video is sales, and the general public has shown their support for the current release of Cleopatra with their purchases. Your ranting and raving on this and other forums as an army of one isn't going bring about a revised restoration release. You may gain a handful of those who agree with you, but only by getting thousands or tens of thousands of people to stand behind you, will you even have a chance of being heard and listened to.
As I stated above, start a petition, start a website, post on Facebook or Twitter, get your message out there and see how many agree with your opinions (which you acknowledged earlier IS YOUR OPINION). You've gotten the opinions of some of the most knowledgeable and respected members here, but your constant refusal to respect and acknowledge their opinions and advice has turned away anyone who may be swayed your opinion.
I'll say it again, until you gain enough support to gain the ear or Disney and the other providers of "incorrectly" restored films, the technology and knowledge base (which you must learn, not just ask to be taught) is available to make the changes you so desperately want.
Edit: Unlike you, as a child in the 90's watching classic movies on TV, I actually saw many movies AS THEY WERE MEANT TO BE SEEN, in the movie theater with all the majesty and awe they were meant to invoke. But, unless I hit the lottery and spend millions to recreate the theater experience and purchase/rent an analog copy of the films I saw, I accept that I'll never be able to recreate what I saw in the 60's and 70's.
I accept that what is available, now and in the foreseeable future, to me as a mass consumer is all I'll be able to view. As I enter the final third of my life, I find that spending my time enjoying movies is far more entertaining and fulfilling that ranting and raving about them.Last edited by lingyi; 15th Sep 2019 at 12:24.
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Yes, here is the shooting script reconstructed online: http://elizabethtaylorthelegend.com/Elizabeth%20Taylor%20-%20Restored%20Cleopatra%20Main%20Page.html
Not everything that was cut was good in my opinion but a lot of the scenes cut, mainly Antony and Cleopatra scenes, were an ABSOLUTE MUST. The film as it exists simply doesn't work without those scenes.A lot of what's seen in the bluray is either the setup or the climax of something but rarely the two of them together. That is why the film is so boring and seems to go nowhere. Apparently Mankiewicz wanted to finish this, till he died he would still talk about this, why didn't he just go back to the studio and did it? even if it was just for himself?? doesn't make any sense at all.
Also of note is that, Mankiewicz wrote and shot, so basically what was shot was a first and only draft, and it is pretty good in some parts, imagine if he had done it to his satisfaction.
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Unlike you, I don't think I'm the only person that exists in the world, I actually believe everyone should enjoy these films as they are supposed to, and I also think about the original artists who created them, I'm quite positive most of them are NOT hardware fanatics like Ridley Scott or fallen for the salesman pitch like William Friedkin and that they would not like any digital changes or alterations to their work.
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Then get out there and call on the others who you believe share your opinion through the options I listed. This forum has perhaps several thousands or tens of thousands of visitors and members of which a couple of dozen have posted on thread. Only by getting out to the "real internet" through a petition, website or social media can to reach out to the billions of others out there. It's one thing to say there are many others who share your opinion, it's another to prove it! Until then, to the studios who are producing the "incorrect" releases, you're even less significant than an ant pissing in the wind.
BTW: I didn't say you were the only one with your opinion. I DID say "You may gain a handful of those who agree with you.."Last edited by lingyi; 15th Sep 2019 at 13:17.
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Thanks for the link
Some more info here on the making of here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBVh83icFvE
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e1jmmEh160xUK-qE97uaBaa3T3j8ThIj/view
Sorry if everyone already knows about this, I didn't know about the BG info and history, just vaguely
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I've posted on some other threads that sometimes I think that Disney had the right idea when they resisted releasing their classic animated movies on home video, trying to keep to their policy of re-releasing these movies only to select theaters every few decades to the new generation. For better or worse, the genie has been let out of the bottle and even Disney can't put the cork back in. They're trying with their new streaming service, showing their content piecemeal according to their schedule, but that restriction likely won't last long.
Again. Money talks and even Disney listened. Now that they own the Star Wars franchise, it will be interesting to see if they re-release the original trilogy in their non-digitally enhanced version. BTW, I have zero interest in Star Wars, but do find what Disney may do in the future interesting.
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I have the first Star Wars movie, in its original edit, and without all the Lucas changes. It's on laserdisc and I eventually did a transfer of that to DVD. However, would I watch this instead of the "improved" disc? Definitely not. The newer discs have infinitely better sound and, IMHO, sound is often more important than the visual part of the movie. Also, despite all the "restoration ruined the movie" posts in forums across the Internet (the OP has LOTS of people who agree with the general part of his premise), the first restored version (of Star Wars 1977) is more fun to watch than the initial release to video which, AFAIK, matches the theatrical version. However, I could care less whether it matches "what was shown in theaters" because why does that matter?
Now if changes alter the movie's plot, character development, or ending, then I am most definitely not a fan. In one of the original Star Wars movies, Han Solo fires first in a bar scene, but Lucas later decided to be politically correct and have him return fire. That totally changed what we learned about his character in that scene. It's Lucas' movie and his choice, but I liked the harder-edged character.
There are countless threads across thousands of forums where participants list all the changes that have been made to movies from the initial screening, to first theatrical release, to second run (when that used to be common), to video release, to restoration and re-issue, etc. Endings often get changed ("Fatal Attraction" & "Close Encounters", to name two) in ways that significantly change the whole film. I'm generally not a fan.
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I was perusing the up-coming releases over at Amazon and I noted that Coppola has revisited 'Apocalypse Now' yet again. This appears to be a minus-redux cut. Can not say I have even seen the original let alone the redux.
But as I already stated I am quite keen on seeing Cleo on blu ray (not that I can compare it with any previous releases)
Might well assist me with my sleep dis-order
PS. As already pointed out, I did not call the OP a m*r*n. I am usually much more subtle than that.
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Moar'n?
Sounds Klingon.
The LD are overrated at this late date. There have been many HQ fan edits that restore the basics of the LD/theatrical version, but using a mix of more modern higher-quality sources. It takes lots of work, sometimes even After Effects to redo shots, not just re-grading color, but it's vastly better than the raw LD dumps. Those are available in 702p-1080p.
The Despecialized Editions are my favorite.
No.
What he needs to do is quit his b!tching and moaning, and take matters into his own hands. He has enough sources by which to recreate everything he's complaints about. At minimum, Sleeping Beauty and Cleopatra. True fans of this stuff participate in fan edits, whether it's providing funds, sources, or time for a group of like-minded individuals. I've been involved in some way in such reconstructions, as well as totally oblivious to projects until completed. At the very moment, I'm involved in 3 long-term projects (slowed due to my health), 2 of which have unreleased HTF sources (but I have procured an impressive stash of HQ footage).
My solution to bad video has always been to restore it, not cry.Last edited by lordsmurf; 15th Sep 2019 at 17:12.
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That is a perfect solution:
Fanedit.org
It should give the OP exactly what he wants, and Cleopatra is a perfect candidate for the people who do these things.
Heck, given the tools I have and the 5,000+ hours of editing I've done, if someone can give me an edit list, I could do the whole project in a few hours, and if it is mostly cuts-only, I could do it without re-encoding. I have ways of finessing the audio at cut points, when needed.
I couldn't agree more.
It's s the solution to a lot of things in life.Last edited by johnmeyer; 15th Sep 2019 at 17:28.
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people have wanted this since the 80's, there have been conflicting reports, some say they did look for it, some say they didn't, 20th's official position is they looked for it, they don't have it, it doesn't exist. I doubt a petition will do anything really, and most fans of the film are senior citizens, or gone, so what can I do? One thing is interesting, they found outtakes and b-roll and costume tests, how can the a-roll be destroyed for lack of space but the trims survived?
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great documentary, I managed to find the original John De Cuir concept arts in good quality, I will post them if you like. They are better than the film I think.
Also, all of the clips in the documentary are consistent with my arguments, the film IS warm and saturated, not cold and sickly like the blu-ray. It makes logical sense, it's meant to be Egypt and Rome, not Valhalla or some north pole, which is the type of color temperature the blu-ray has, but nothing makes much sense in the hardware salesman dogma that has taken over Hollywood, so.Last edited by LetThemEatCake; 15th Sep 2019 at 18:38.
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And moaning and groaning on this forum is doing what to further your goal? You've been given options, yet you choose to sit on your hands and butt crying "Oh poor me! What to do? What to dooooo?, and choosing to do NOTHING! Changes both small and large, unsuccessful and successful have to begin somewhere.
Your posts point to your being either: lazy, ignorant, paranoid, delusional, unable to accept anything other your own reality, afraid to find out that you're in a very small minority (note I don't say "The only one") or purposely trolling.Last edited by lingyi; 15th Sep 2019 at 18:51.
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There's a couple of handfuls of regulars here who have actually worked in the industry and one handful has already posted here. As knowledgeable as they are, they can't [definitively] answer why something did or didn't happen somewhere and some time they weren't present at. The MAY be someone or some persons that can answer some or all of your questions, but they're not on this board. They're the ones who did the research and the current restoration. If they don't respond to your questions, you have three choices: write twice, a hundred or a thousand times, get a hundred or a thousand others to ask the same questions or edit/modify the current release either as an individual or as a group effort. Note that none of these options are being the Moan'r you are!
Last edited by lingyi; 15th Sep 2019 at 19:06. Reason: grammar
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